Could it work? (2 Viewers)

[johnny]

John, if you think that A-Fuelers have anywhere near the adrenaline rush the Fuels have than I don't know what your thinking... Stand behind the bleachers whether your grabbing a burger, beer, whatever when the A-Fuel cars run vs the Fuel Cars. It's about a 20-30 db difference! I've done this experiment more times then I can count, it's not even close!

Beats 11 cars, that's what I'm thinking. Some sort of change is imminent.
Most won't like it (the change).

The ticket sales are going to diminish regardless, however, I've enjoyed Nostalgia and CIFC races as much as NHRA Nationals. The ADRL has figured out how to pack the stands for a GREAT show with NO nitro. Been to their show too.

Change perceptions, change expectations.

 

[Toejam]

Beats 11 cars, that's what I'm thinking. Some sort of change is imminent.
Most won't like it (the change).

The ticket sales are going to diminish regardless, however, I've enjoyed Nostalgia and CIFC races as much as NHRA Nationals. The ADRL has figured out how to pack the stands for a GREAT show with NO nitro. Been to their show too.

Change perceptions, change expectations.

Well I think reducing the product isn't going to make much difference either, lets wait and see just how many cars DO show up at Pomona/Phx before we throw in the towel...

 

[qtermile14]

Apples to apples, Puldes tune up is fast and reliable. The problem was, they were trying it against the "standard NHRA tune up". On the nostagia scene, he and Plueger are more than competitive.

I believe they were running a big pump on the NHRA car.

From what I remember about the Pulde driven Plueger car, it was Steve's own Clutch and fuel management System. Here's an exerpt from Drag Racer Magazine about it, when they had the article in "07" about Steve going Nostalgia racing with Bucky.

"Most recently, Steve Plueger built a contemporary Funny Car that turned out to be one of those "dare to be different" entries. Before the advent of mandatory rev limiters, Plueger engineered his own proprietary clutch and fuel management system that cost several thousands less than a "conventional setup." The car had a single mag from MSD and a giant fuel pump, specially developed by Plueger and his longtime accomplice, Steve Leach. It was beginning to show promise right about the time when those aforementioned electronics became required by rule, and that took the fun out of it for Steve. He retrofitted the car (spending huge dollars), but running as a self-funded deal, the handwriting was on the wall."

In the Nostalgia ranks, it is actually Bucky Austin and Mike Grekul driving his cars.

 

[Treeshaker]

The information about interest in such a program is not for the NHRA national events, I don't think. The concept was presented at an NHRA meeting that I was not in attendance and was rejected for various reasons, that had no real issues with the proposal itself.

The issue was brought up when a couple of track owners asked the nitro car owners in our BS session what the performance for such limitations would be and where the savings would occur. Performance was estimated to be 4.7 - 4.9 at 290 to 305 mph for TF and 4.8 to 5.0 for FC. This combinatin was ran by national event cars approximately 7 - 10 years ago and most all current crew chiefs have knowledge about and set ups for these limitations. The savings would come from less parts attrition in all areas of the car to fewer crew members needed to run a car.

I was asked to gather the information by people who are interested in cutting costs for all parties, as they have in the past and plan to in the future promote and participate in events with nitro cars.

All an A/F car would have to do is remove one mag to compete. Nitro percentage is not limited for any of the cars.

 

[Jet]

I guess what might be slowing down any movement is the misconception that Top Fuel is an unlimited class and changing anything to slow them down is not right. Well kids, T/F has as many rules put upon it as any S/S class and maybe more confusing ones.

Mr Hartman is on the right track and I miss the 100% runs, 24 or more cars on the grounds and of course, the 1/4 mile. Since NHRA will always be second fiddle to NASCAR as far as attendence, sponsors etc then lets return it to the point where Mr. Hartman could afford to bring back his cars as well as many others. The same 8 faces in the second round are getting pretty boring. Diversity built this sport and in the 45 + years I have followed it it is as boring now as it ever has been.

So lets look at the pluses:
1. 100%
2. Higher Car counts
3. 1/4 mile racing
4. No limiters
5. New Faces/Sponsors
6. Qualifying that means something
7. Still run blowers

Make sense to anybody else?

 

[Mooseman]

Why not, Joe? Tradition? Remember there was a Nitro ban in our sport. I personally would rather hear a 100% unblown car vrs a Alcohol or gas anything. Neither the small pump cars or 85/90 percenters are that great sounding/flame belching.
I think if you take a TAFC poll, most would JUMP at the opportunity to run unblown fuel at a pro level and the Dragsters already exist (just need a clutch tweak). The current A/Fuel Dragsters with 100% and current T/F clutch technology will run some numbers, for sure.
Personally, I could handle a FULL field of these.

Wasn't the nitro ban an NHRA only thing ? didn't all the nitro guys just go elsewhere?

T/F F/C without blowers , that would be an amasing difference in sound . Its amasing how much a blower effects the sound of an engine . Theres an old video on youtube somewhere I can't find it at the moment but its got footage of old injected nitro funny cars and blown nitro funny cars from the 60's and you really notice the sound difference . The blower seems to give it a roaring sound like an animal .

 

[BaldyLochs]

Well Virgil, thanks for posting. I think you most certainly should get the word out on this and see what you come up with. From what little I've heard from my perspective (which is purely just a "fan" perspective), these types of discussions tend to turn political and get pretty heated rather quickly. I get the impression that the guys that should speak thier mind don't for various reasons. Everyone involved in the sport, and I mean EVERYBODY - from the ticket-buyers, to the PhillyCheese Steak Sandwich vendor to the drivers to the car owners.... needs to do thier part... to do everything humanly possible to make this a better, safer sport and make sure we do everything so that another person is not killed. And I think part of that includes some people maybe going out on a limb, taking a few risks or looking at some un-conventional ways of thinking. You've certainly got the connections in the business as well as the working knowledge... so thanks for bringing it up!

 

[Nunz]

Not sure why this was poo-pooed by NHRA. Unless they are going to take the easy way out and leave the racing to 1000ft permanently, and think that's the fix. Well, these cars are still way too expensive to run, and IMO don't need to be running 320 in 1000 ft. Give me more cars, new names, 1320 feet, and a lot of noise. The current formula won't do that, even at 1/8 mile racing. Am I wrong?

 

[HEMI6point1]

I guess what might be slowing down any movement is the misconception that Top Fuel is an unlimited class and changing anything to slow them down is not right. Well kids, T/F has as many rules put upon it as any S/S class and maybe more confusing ones.

Mr Hartman is on the right track and I miss the 100% runs, 24 or more cars on the grounds and of course, the 1/4 mile. Since NHRA will always be second fiddle to NASCAR as far as attendence, sponsors etc then lets return it to the point where Mr. Hartman could afford to bring back his cars as well as many others. The same 8 faces in the second round are getting pretty boring. Diversity built this sport and in the 45 + years I have followed it it is as boring now as it ever has been.

So lets look at the pluses:
1. 100%
2. Higher Car counts
3. 1/4 mile racing
4. No limiters
5. New Faces/Sponsors
6. Qualifying that means something
7. Still run blowers

Make sense to anybody else?

I think the NHRA would NEVER go back to 100% nitro due to explosions like Herbert's in 1999, that finished it for them.

My ideal would be to first take off those damn rev limiters! Next, limit them to 1 mag, a smaller fuel pump and maybe a limit on blower overdrive to 25-30%.

This should be able to get them back to 1,320 feet. And really, if the TF cars top out in the 4.60's with this type of arrangement, is it going to be really noticeable over say a 4.48 pass?

 

[mick]

...............Give me more cars, new names, 1320 feet, and a lot of noise.................

this should be NHRA's new ad slogan.......because it won't be,
congrats nunzio!, it's all yours........and it's great!!

 

[Butch]

This would work! As I said when this was kicked around on here previously this is nothing more than a refined "type" of combination the Eddie Hill used to run the first 5 and that "Big" ran. Those of us who rans cars prior to the twin mags, clutch cannon, and double pump can tell you that it was safer, easier on parts and just as much fun.

Besides the average fan won't be able to tell between a 4.5 run and a 4.9 until they read the scoreboard or hear it announced. Besides slowing the car will give the fans some time to read the sponsors names

If something isn't done kiss 16 car fuel fields good bye because there won't be more than 8 - 9 cars out there. Cut the costs and "they will come".

 

[Nick Name]

Virgil;
Years ago I proposed the very same deal and sent a letter to Hot Rod Magazine which they printed.

My proposal was not to replace national event cars, but rather to create an "Econo Top Fuel" and "Econo Funnycar".

The point of my deal was that there were no blown nitro cars available for match races that were anyway near affordable. Big show cars cost too much to run down the track, for track operators to be able to afford.

This was before the nostalgia movement which now has affordable cars.

It would have also been a stepping stone to the big show. Also, it would have been a market for used parts. A crank removed from service in a big show car, might be good for five or six more passes in an Econo car, and would be pretty cheap.

There really needs to be another Coca Cola Cavalcade of Funny Cars again, etc. Big show cars can't do something like that.

Jay

 

[Toejam]

Virgil;
Years ago I proposed the very same deal and sent a letter to Hot Rod Magazine which they printed.

My proposal was not to replace national event cars, but rather to create an "Econo Top Fuel" and "Econo Funnycar".

The point of my deal was that there were no blown nitro cars available for match races that were anyway near affordable. Big show cars cost too much to run down the track, for track operators to be able to afford.

This was before the nostalgia movement which now has affordable cars.

It would have also been a stepping stone to the big show. Also, it would have been a market for used parts. A crank removed from service in a big show car, might be good for five or six more passes in an Econo car, and would be pretty cheap.

There really needs to be another Coca Cola Cavalcade of Funny Cars again, etc. Big show cars can't do something like that.

Jay

Jay maybe that's why Nostalgia racing is as big as it is? When you have that cheaper alternative it's going to lure racers who just can't afford TF/FC.

 

[Mooseman]

I don't know if this would be good for national events it would be a bit drastic a change because it takes about how much 20 years of progress away .

But it would be great for a match race circuet , sort of like what they have in alcohol divisions where they have the big league nhra alcohol classes but also other divisions for those who can't afford the big time .

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

I have friends who could run right now under these rules Virgil proposes despite the current economic conditions. I suppose many others do as well. Now, do many of us have friends that could step up to today's top fuel ranks given the current constraints? I sure don't!

 

[johnny]

In the Nostalgia ranks, it is actually Bucky Austin and Mike Grekul driving his cars.

Correct. I was referencing the Pulde-Plueger alliance with regards to the "Big Show" car, as it was relevant to the earlier post. For the record, Pulde went on to establish one of first dominant nostalgia tune-ups with Horan and now has a competitive tune up in His and Powers War Eagle.

The intent wasn't to establish Pulde as a current driver, but to offer information on Steve and Dales' further adventures (since it was implied the tune didn't work).

Do I sound like a FanBoy or what?

 

[yoda]

I have friends who could run right now under these rules Virgil proposes despite the current economic conditions. I suppose many others do as well. Now, do many of us have friends that could step up to today's top fuel ranks given the current constraints? I sure don't!

Totally... I know at least 3 guys that have the makings of a Virgil nitro car right now in their garage/shop, but its all gathering dust because the "rules" changed.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

A little over 20 years ago a friend of mine had two engines in his shop. One was his KB blocked, iron headed match race engine. The other was his all aluminum national event engine.

Could you see nostalgia racers switching combinations over when the national event comes to town? I could.

 

[Leebone]

Virgil, with all due respect to you and your racing family, I would much rather watch 1000' racing at full tilt boogie, than watch watered down fuel cars at 1320'. Some people have mentioned A-fuel or alkys as the future of Top Fuel. That is extremely appalling to me. I'm just saying that as a fan. I don't drive or own a racing team. I'm just an armchair crewchief. So, I ask you, someone who's been in the game for many years, what is so important about that last 320 feet?

This question is for Virgil!!!

 

[Toejam]

It seems every year there are those who feel that this sport has to be re-invented so that Joe Lunchpail Racer can afford to go Fuel racing! For racers who want budget Fuel racing, there's Nostalgia racing!