Army Sponsorship

[Jah]

This is the essence of the foolishness of gov't.

Cut programs because they "look bad". Start programs because they "look good". As several readers have mentioned, a private business person would start, or stop programs based on results. Re-evaluation would take regularly -by the market itself in terms of results. Not by a panel, or a vote or a committee, but by ROI.

All the "wasteful" spending in the whole federal government doesn't make a lick of difference on our debt situation until we address entitlements. 2/3 of EVERYTHING goes to support social programs for those that cannot, or will not support themselves.

Until someone wants to take on "looking bad" by cutting those programs, there will be no funds freed up for things we all want and like, like bridges, roads, and racing sponsorships.

And perhaps a job or two created here or there. Just sayin'.

 

[Doolie]

Norman, if you saw what wasteful programs our tax dollars get wasted on, the money Motorsports gets promoting our Military wouldn't seem that bad trust me!

I have worked in Government. I just don't need my taxes going to support Schumachers ego. Or anyone else.

 

[Doolie]

If the sponsorship earns the military the highest return for their investment compared to other programs do you feel the same? If you do, you aren't a very smart businessman.

I am a smart enough business man to know I don't need my money supporting some rich man's ego pumping racing team. I would like to see your evidence that DSR racing is so far ahead of every other recruiting promotion. They will get their bodies. No jobs in the country, they hold out the carrot of paying for the education of the cannon fodder. The Army would do just fine without DSR.

 

[Doolie]

So do you want to trim the recruiting budget, or just limit what they can spend the recruiting dollars on? You don't want your money going to DSR, but you are ok with it going to NBC, or Fox, or Clear Channel?

All this proposed amendment does it limit where the dollars can be spent, it doesn't cut the budget. It doesn't save the taxpayers a single penny. All this amendment would do is force the branches to spend their recruiting dollars in less effective places, which in a lot of ways is typical government: Go into a situation, ignore the opinions of the people on the ground that actually know what they are talking about, and make the process less efficient.

Why will the alternatives be "less effective"???? Climbing walls at the NHRA races is the ultimate Army inducement? Calling that guy with Zero military background Sarge is a great way to suck in recruits?

 

[e]

Got a bit of a chip on the shoulder...huh ???..............................e

 

[Nunz]

Geez Norm, reading your posts makes it seem that your not so much opposed to Army sponsorships, just not happy that Shoe's team is a recipient. Would you feel better if it was a racer with a lesser "ego"? It seems that this program has been very effective as a recruiting tool, and a huge success as far as building morale amongst the troops. As far as pumping up egos, well, winning usually has a hand in that...

 

[The Little Lizard]

Indiana channel 8 WISH-TV news/video report on United States Congress Sub-committee passage of ,and forwarding of bill to congress ending all government involvement in sports sponsorships.

Military racing sponsorships in limbo

 

[Doolie]

Geez Norm, reading your posts makes it seem that your not so much opposed to Army sponsorships, just not happy that Shoe's team is a recipient. Would you feel better if it was a racer with a lesser "ego"? It seems that this program has been very effective as a recruiting tool, and a huge success as far as building morale amongst the troops. As far as pumping up egos, well, winning usually has a hand in that...

No difference which team it might be. I don't want my money supporting a racing team unless i choose that path. Once again, how do you know how effective it has been getting bodies? A huge success among the troops? I can just see some guy in a vehicle in Afghanistan, terrified he will get blown up by a roadside bomb, feeling so much better because the Army is funneling money to DSR or any other race team. SURE.

 

[Doolie]

Got a bit of a chip on the shoulder...huh ???..............................e

Once again, for the last time, i don't need my tax dollars supporting any racing team. If my not worshiping Saint Don is a chip on my shoulder, so be it.

 

[Larry]

Well I think Drag Racers and Gearheads are exactly what the Military needs to keep up all that high Tec equipment !
I'd say it's money well spent ! Better than bridges to nowhere and Mating Habits of Kangaroo Rats !

 

[Paul]

I am a smart enough business man to know I don't need my money supporting some rich man's ego pumping racing team. I would like to see your evidence that DSR racing is so far ahead of every other recruiting promotion. They will get their bodies. No jobs in the country, they hold out the carrot of paying for the education of the cannon fodder. The Army would do just fine without DSR.

You sound like a DSR hater to me (evidence of "rich man's ego"), don't let your ignorance get in the way of reality. The head of recruitment for the Armed Forces was interviewed on Sirius last month and he stated the Armed Forces get's their highest return for their investment from NASCAR and the NHRA (DSR) sponsorships.

 

[Gipraw]

No difference which team it might be. I don't want my money supporting a racing team unless i choose that path. Once again, how do you know how effective it has been getting bodies? A huge success among the troops? I can just see some guy in a vehicle in Afghanistan, terrified he will get blown up by a roadside bomb, feeling so much better because the Army is funneling money to DSR or any other race team. SURE.

I say it is the most effective because I choose to believe the guys whose evals (and subsequent advancement) are dependent on how well they recruit and they say that the motorsports advertising is the best bang for the buck they get. The recruiters I have talked to personally say the same thing. They don't have unlimited budgets, and they choose to spend their dollars where they have the biggest impact.


Just curious, Norman.. are you a vet?

 

[JB3]

You sound like a DSR hater to me (evidence of "rich man's ego"), don't let your ignorance get in the way of reality. The head of recruitment for the Armed Forces was interviewed on Sirius last month and he stated the Armed Forces get's their highest return for their investment from NASCAR and the NHRA (DSR) sponsorships.

Really? Then I think they must not be trying hard enough to recruit in the traditional methods.

In a war time such as the last decade I find it IMPOSSIBLE to beleive that the deal breaker in any man/woman deciding whether or not to join the military is because they are a sponsor on the side of a racecar. Not buying it!! If it is the decisive reason, they should probably reevaluate their principles and primary why.

No military affiliation here whatsoever. But I do know this is a long term life decision. We are not talking about buying some auto parts here, or your favorite beverage of choice. We are talking about serving your country and, in war time, potentially making the ultimate sacrifice. Would you want to serve along side someone who used motorsports as rationale? If today's young people want to join the military, there is more exposure and resources available for recruiting than ever before.

Until our government stops the ridiculous spending of money they don't even have (including motorsports sponsorships), we will continue to be stuck in the funk we are currently mired in. Hell, I can be rich to if I just print money as I see fit. But I know that's illegal, so why should the government be allowed to just print more and dig the hole deeper and deeper for generations to come. It has to stop somewhere, I work too damn hard for my money.

 

[FC138fan]

Really? Then I think they must not be trying hard enough to recruit in the traditional methods.

In a war time such as the last decade I find it IMPOSSIBLE to beleive that the deal breaker in any man/woman deciding whether or not to join the military is because they are a sponsor on the side of a racecar.

I see that Schumacher invites military people to the races all the time... I assume they were invited and in the military because they are all in uniform and behind the ropes at the hospitality. I also see them (military guys & girls) hanging around the rock wall, having a beer and having fun. I am sure they are very approachable and can offer some insight to anyone interested in joining.

It's more then just a sticker on the side of a car, it's their presence at the track.

If nothing else showing some military guys and girls a good time at the track for a couple days as a way of giving thanks is pretty cool... there's nothing more American than a day at the drag races, having them at the track makes me appreciate what they're over there doing for us.

 

[Baron]

Really? Then I think they must not be trying hard enough to recruit in the traditional methods.

In a war time such as the last decade I find it IMPOSSIBLE to beleive that the deal breaker in any man/woman deciding whether or not to join the military is because they are a sponsor on the side of a racecar. Not buying it!! If it is the decisive reason, they should probably reevaluate their principles and primary why.

No military affiliation here whatsoever. But I do know this is a long term life decision. We are not talking about buying some auto parts here, or your favorite beverage of choice. We are talking about serving your country and, in war time, potentially making the ultimate sacrifice. Would you want to serve along side someone who used motorsports as rationale? If today's young people want to join the military, there is more exposure and resources available for recruiting than ever before.

Until our government stops the ridiculous spending of money they don't even have (including motorsports sponsorships), we will continue to be stuck in the funk we are currently mired in. Hell, I can be rich to if I just print money as I see fit. But I know that's illegal, so why should the government be allowed to just print more and dig the hole deeper and deeper for generations to come. It has to stop somewhere, I work too damn hard for my money.

Your concern for fiscal restraint by government is one I share. Since the rules were changed for broadcasters some years ago, "free" advertising went away and the services have to reach potential enlistees with effective marketing methods. Drag racing is one of those.
The criteria for enlistees has changed. In the modern era, all who serve must meet much higher standards than was the case in the past. Thus, the services must seek candiates for recruitment from the most likely places in which to find these high quality candidates. Drag racing is one of those.
Most marketing requires a level of brand awareness. For some, simple repetition is enough. For others an association with success is required. That is especially the case for an aspirational product or service and for career decisions. The services need to seek people in places where they associate with others for whom high performance is the standard. Drag racing is one of those.
Re-enlistment of the best soldiers is one way in which the US Army can reduce its overall personnel costs. Retaining well-trained and experienced people lowers the costs of training over time. Training is a key compnent of personnel costs. The services need to succeed in venues in which team spirit can be used to reinforce the esprit de corps which is a major part of the re-enlistment decision. Drag racing is one of those.
I do have some "military affiliation" and know no one who enlisted for a single reason. Most joined in order to be part of something bigger than themselves - something big enough to comprehend The Sarge and a successful effort in the world's quickest motorsport.
The fiscal question is: are we getting our money's worth? DSR has held the Army flag high, produced a successful and professional effort, and supported the other recruitment efforts in a positive way. Would that all government spending was so intelligently focused.
Cheers,
Ed

 

[Doolie]

I say it is the most effective because I choose to believe the guys whose evals (and subsequent advancement) are dependent on how well they recruit and they say that the motorsports advertising is the best bang for the buck they get. The recruiters I have talked to personally say the same thing. They don't have unlimited budgets, and they choose to spend their dollars where they have the biggest impact.


Just curious, Norman.. are you a vet?

Why don't you ask me if i collect bottle caps? It would nave as much to do with the Army getting tax money as my military experience or lack thereof. People on here have the concept that not liking Schumacher getting tax money is being a "DSR HATER". I can not imagine spending my energy hating some corporate race team. I know some stories about Don's character or lack thereof in the 70s. I would not bother to bring them here to people that think he is a super hero. I would like to think he has grown up some in the last 45 years. My feeling about tax money going to racing sponsorships has nothing to do with my military history. It has to do with preferring to see some other use. As long as unemployment is 10+% and realistically much higher than the government statistic and the military has the carrot of paying for education, the Army will have PLENTY of bodies. If you want to belabor this, bring in all sorts of red herrings like being a vet or Schumacher's personality, discuss this among your selves. Maybe send Uncle a little extra to buy DSRT a blower next April?

 

[none]

Your concern for fiscal restraint by government is one I share. Since the rules were changed for broadcasters some years ago, "free" advertising went away and the services have to reach potential enlistees with effective marketing methods. Drag racing is one of those.
The criteria for enlistees has changed. In the modern era, all who serve must meet much higher standards than was the case in the past. Thus, the services must seek candiates for recruitment from the most likely places in which to find these high quality candidates. Drag racing is one of those.
Most marketing requires a level of brand awareness. For some, simple repetition is enough. For others an association with success is required. That is especially the case for an aspirational product or service and for career decisions. The services need to seek people in places where they associate with others for whom high performance is the standard. Drag racing is one of those.
Re-enlistment of the best soldiers is one way in which the US Army can reduce its overall personnel costs. Retaining well-trained and experienced people lowers the costs of training over time. Training is a key compnent of personnel costs. The services need to succeed in venues in which team spirit can be used to reinforce the esprit de corps which is a major part of the re-enlistment decision. Drag racing is one of those.
I do have some "military affiliation" and know no one who enlisted for a single reason. Most joined in order to be part of something bigger than themselves - something big enough to comprehend The Sarge and a successful effort in the world's quickest motorsport.
The fiscal question is: are we getting our money's worth? DSR has held the Army flag high, produced a successful and professional effort, and supported the other recruitment efforts in a positive way. Would that all government spending was so intelligently focused.
Cheers,
Ed

Well stated Ed. Wonder if it too long for some ............

 

[M Jones]

So Norman I take it you are saying that persons going into the military for A free education will make better tougher troops than someone who attends a drag race

 

[Baron]

Thanks Mel.
My post is, probably, too long for some. As a retired soldier, I am concerned about two things which I often see and hear:
1) A lack of understanding of what service means to those who serve or have served. The best team I was ever on was in the service.
2) Outdated ideas which relegate service members to the status of cannon fodder. Our service members today are the best and brightest in many ways. We have a high tech environment in which they serve.
Thus, my effort to explicate the real issue.
Thanks again.
Ed

 

[Gipraw]

Why don't you ask me if i collect bottle caps? It would nave as much to do with the Army getting tax money as my military experience or lack thereof. People on here have the concept that not liking Schumacher getting tax money is being a "DSR HATER". I can not imagine spending my energy hating some corporate race team. I know some stories about Don's character or lack thereof in the 70s. I would not bother to bring them here to people that think he is a super hero. I would like to think he has grown up some in the last 45 years. My feeling about tax money going to racing sponsorships has nothing to do with my military history. It has to do with preferring to see some other use. As long as unemployment is 10+% and realistically much higher than the government statistic and the military has the carrot of paying for education, the Army will have PLENTY of bodies. If you want to belabor this, bring in all sorts of red herrings like being a vet or Schumacher's personality, discuss this among your selves. Maybe send Uncle a little extra to buy DSRT a blower next April?

Nice jump to an erroneous conclusion there. I was simply curious if you were a vet. I don't think your military experience (or lack thereof) has any bearing on the validity of your opinion. I was just curious. You are the one turning this into a "DSR Hater" conversation. Every one of my questions have been directed at motorsport sponsorships in general, not DSR.


I asked earlier, and you did not answer, so I will ask again.

Are you simply against motorsports sponsorships, or do you want the recruiting budget cut?


This amendment doesn't cut the budget one cent. It simply tells them where they can't spend it. How does that save the tax payers a dime?

Arguing the budget needs to be cut is a different than arguing that it shouldn't be spent on motorsports. One is a valid, fact based argument, and one isn't.


I agree that while unemployment is up, there will not be a shortage of bodies. But quantity does not equal quality. History has shown that when the recruiting budget takes a hit, or when they make mistakes on where they spend the money, then the number of high quality recruits drops significantly. Simply getting bodies in the door because it is their last option will not outfit our military to function correctly. It takes a ton of hard work and a fairly large recruiting budget to attract the talent needed to fill the most technically demanding jobs. The average unemployed person walking the streets doesn't fit that need.