Another idea? (1 Viewer)

[None]

Okay you nay sayers, sharpen up your key boards. I am going forward on the premise that if we could control the amount of engine breakage, we might make the sport safer and keep insurance companies from making decision for the sport

This is just meant to get the conversation started and see where it goes. I know you all have your pet idea from fuel pump size, to tire size, to blower drive to etc. etc etc..........

Before this past weekends unfortunate event we have seen some similar spectacular engine explosions that could have had the same end results. What do you think if the cubic inch limit was raised and nitro was baned. I am making nitro the number one culprit in the sport today in availability, cost, and creating problems. Initial cost would be higher, but would the elimination of nitro stop some of the engine failure which appears to be the start of the problems. I am talking about a whole new sturdier block and 750 CI. Would it be less expensive in the long run? Would performance be the same? Would reliability go up? Both IRL and NASCAR saw the writing on the wall and made decisions to curtail speeds and improve safety before insurance companies or legislation stepped in and made decision for them.

One of the big problems with drag racing is the breakage and ensuing down time. Would this eliminate most of it?

How about adding 1000 foot racing to the mix?

Shoot away.

Ron Pellegrini

 

[elvis]

Smaller motors (426-440c.i) 1 mag and 100% nitro. If you lose nitro, you lose alotta people.

 

[Wes]

Hard to say if such a combination would keep the racing cleaner and/or safer as there is no model for comparison. We have large displacement engines and we have supercharged alcohol engines...but we don't have both.

I will say this, however. You are on the right track with regards to engine design parameters. The cylinder blocks available right now for nitro racing are incredibly better than what we had a decade ago but there is so much more room for improvement on the basic design. But the moratorium on block and head designs have put a screeching halt on innovation and what could potentially make the engines less bomb-like. Imagine if the only parameters that a block or head manufacturer had to abide by were 2-valves per cylinder, 500 cubic inch maximum end displacement, and 8 cylinders? Throw out the designs we have forced upon us and start with a true clean slate. The potential is only as great as the designer's mind.

For the sake of debate I still believe that either an 8 or 10-gallon maximum fuel capacity or a "blower-ban" are the best remedies for all parties.

 

[Super Mod]

The big teams aren't going to buy big changes. too many unknowns involved means they could end up losers. Not good for their sponsors. Don't look for any Big changes soon. Too much at stake . Too much good data on proven engine combos. Shortening the track would be the only outside possibilty, A month from now and it's business as usual except for standardizing the catch net and pit.

 

[d'kid]

you really want to slow the cars down?

in tech, you tech 2 blocks, 4 heads, 32 pistons, 16 rods... that's all you can use that weekend... all. if you use parts not teched you are DQ'd.

you can use all the rings, bearings, valves and springs you want... and 60 minutes between rounds.

how hard do you wanna lean on it?

d'kid

 

[DrRocket]

Lose the nitro, and you'll lose the majority of the fans in the stands. Me included.

An argument COULD be made for losing the blowers, I suppose, yet when I stand next to an A/FD, it's just not the same without the huffer.

It's ironic. When Darrell Russel left us, there was open campaigning on this board to eliminate the top fuel class entirely. "Funny Cars are much safer," it was claimed by some in promoting a 32 car field "NitroEliminator" class with nothing but floppers. Now, it seems the plastic fantastics have been the source of so much sadness lately......

 

[Wes]

If any forward-thinking change is made to drastically improve safety for our top stars of the sport I wouldn't give a dookie if the cars sounded like VW's and smelled liked bio-diesels. You want to see a mass exodus of the fans, sponsors, and media coverage? Watch what happens when the industry does nothing and settles on the status quo. That will be paltry compared to the few that we lose because the cars "don't sound the same anymore."

I was at my local track last night testing and got into this very debate. I heard the same arguments that if we were to slow the nitro classes back down to, say, 1990-1992 levels that we'd lose the fan base. What statistical basis is there for that position? Did we have NO fans in the early nineties? Did they not buy tickets to national events? Were they not loyal to their favorite drivers' sponsors? Show me where that argument makes sense. 1992 was possibly the most dramatic and exciting season in Funny Car history...Force v. Cruz. They were not running 330 then...and they WERE running 99.6%!

Given todays clutch and fuel management, chassis, bodies, wings, blocks, heads, blowers, and the rest of the advances we've made in the last 20 years, a less powerful tune-up would last much, much longer and cost less to operate. Oh yeah...and have more margin for error on the safety side. But, to throw such an idea or concept at all the nitro teams in hopes they can figure it out quickly, safely, and cost effectively is an immense undertaking. Which is why going to the A/FD style combination makes more sense...there is already plenty of data out there already.

 

[TJ]

Karl.....I am w/ you on the 2 blocks/pistons/etc and I feel that the same block should have to stay in the chassis all day on Sunday. You can change pistons/sleeves/heads/whatever but that block has to saty put.
You'd see who the real tuners were and it would lower the bills and the average person w/ a few partners could come out and play like it used to be.

 

[Chuck]

Limiting the blower overdrive is an instant fix to slowing the cars down. It basically does the same thing as the restrictor plate NASCAR uses. It will also be very easy to police, EVERY team is allowed 10, 20, 25% overdrive, and that's it. Whatever the amount of overdrive allowed is, each team must have their pulleys teched and approved. If they are caught running a different pulley, they're cheating, and the rule book already covers what happens if they are cheating. I would rather see two cars run side-by-side 4.60's @ 300 mhp than lose another driver due to pushing these things to, and past, the brink of catastrophic explosions. These things are basically bombs waiting for a place to go off. Pushing them harder and harder to try and keep up with the leaders of the pack is what is causing so many wild blow-ups.

If all they are worried about is the big speeds and low ETs, set the computer up to lower the ET by 1-2%, a 4.58 becomes a 4.48-4.53, and add 8-10% to the MPH, 300 becomes 324-330, it would be pretty easy to do.

 

[Gregg Pickens]

Big Daddy said it years ago, one pump and one mag.

 

[d'kid]

I was happy seeing side by side 6.7's
I was happy seeing side by side 6.teens
I was happy seeing side by side 5.5's
I was happy seeing side by side 4.9's

I think the key is side by side
I also think seeing Nitro cars in the late 60's, early 70's was more enjoyable than a blink and it's over Nitro pass today.

If tomorrow, everyone became 2 seconds slower, so what.
I keep hearing people *itch that 1/8 is over too quick, Heck it takes me 4.5 seconds to take a drag off a Cigar.

d'kid

 

[Wes]

Big Daddy said it years ago, one pump and one mag.

Gregg...you know that no one, especially NHRA, seemed to ever listened to Large Father until he mopped the floor with them for a few years.

 

[James]

No.no.no.no.

Okay you nay sayers, sharpen up your key boards. I am going forward on the premise that if we could control the amount of engine breakage, we might make the sport safer and keep insurance companies from making decision for the sport

This is just meant to get the conversation started and see where it goes. I know you all have your pet idea from fuel pump size, to tire size, to blower drive to etc. etc etc..........

Before this past weekends unfortunate event we have seen some similar spectacular engine explosions that could have had the same end results. What do you think if the cubic inch limit was raised and nitro was baned. I am making nitro the number one culprit in the sport today in availability, cost, and creating problems. Initial cost would be higher, but would the elimination of nitro stop some of the engine failure which appears to be the start of the problems. I am talking about a whole new sturdier block and 750 CI. Would it be less expensive in the long run? Would performance be the same? Would reliability go up? Both IRL and NASCAR saw the writing on the wall and made decisions to curtail speeds and improve safety before insurance companies or legislation stepped in and made decision for them.

One of the big problems with drag racing is the breakage and ensuing down time. Would this eliminate most of it?

How about adding 1000 foot racing to the mix?

Shoot away.

Ron Pellegrini

 

[Draw 3D]

If you want to slow them down then either single spec fuel pump and/or narrower slicks.

I don't see either happening, the costs to teams would be immense.

 

[FuelFC]

You will have no fans if we keep losing freinds.

Slow the damned cars down now. 4.90's @ +- 300 is plenty fine. Who the hell cares about old records if we keep losing people that we care about.

Is it a sport? Yeah in a sense. But it is entertainment as well. And it involves lives. It is just racing.

I said it before years ago. Make a damned restrictor plate for the air intake.

I don't care how many motors, parts, pieces, or percentages of Nitro you bring or throw at it you can only do so much with a limited amount of air.

It makes everything we have today still usable and not obsolete and it can be policed by everybody very easily.

We aren't getting the 90 minutes back for servicing the car so in many cases swapping short blocks is the fastest way to go. And so is using new parts ready to go as well. No one has time to re-do racks between rounds now.

As well limiting parts makes for some sketchy usage of marginal parts when you need to run the next round. How would I know? Every damned one of us has done it when we had to and were up against the wall. Right or wrong it has been done and limiting parts tempts everyone.

If we get rid of nitro what fuel do we use with this limited/unlimited cube deal?

Wes knows of exactly what I mean when I say that I didn't care one damn bit whether the car blew up or not. I checked every nut and bolt, tire, steering, safety feature, and anything that could possibly save the driver in case of incident. I was not going to be part of losing another friend without knowing we did everything we could to make him as safe as we possibly could.

When one of you lose a friend in front of your very eyes over stupid things that could of been eliminated or should of never even had the chance to occur it makes you very mad and bitter.

And when you continue to see the same things happen to more friends that have no real need for happening that should of never happened in the first place...well. Sometimes it really makes you wonder just what the hell you have chosen to do with your life.

I really love to hate this sport sometimes and it is getting too damned frequent.

Eddie we will always miss you and I am going to go pour one for us right now. God Speed.

 

[FABMAN]

For the last five years i have had serious health issues and i have to tell you Doctors are worlds worst at covering up problems rather than fixing them. It is good that we all are talking and expressing ideas, but the real problem is that some tracks at national events are too short now and either need updating or the race needs to be moved to current dated track. Most if not all tracks that meet the qualified length can handle two races a year.Now for the motors they're not happy and thats a problem, from what i know about these motors is they are designed to run on NITRO and i have been told if they were running 100% they would be happy. Yeah there's a fuel problem right know but i am sure the owners and sponsors will find a solution for that problem. Let's not put a band-aid on this, the racers,crew chiefs and owners will fixed the problem it's their livelihood and everyone knows once Drag Racing gets in your blood there's no leaving it.

 

[n/a]

The fuel cars @ 8,000 HP are over taxing their equipment way beyond what current technologies can keep up with, and what current racetracks were designed for... Take some HP away from these cars now...

Lets get back to some good, safe, side by side, competive Nitro drag racing... these cars don't have to go 330 to put on that show.

Larry

 

[TR]

you really want to slow the cars down?

in tech, you tech 2 blocks, 4 heads, 32 pistons, 16 rods... that's all you can use that weekend... all. if you use parts not teched you are DQ'd.

you can use all the rings, bearings, valves and springs you want... and 60 minutes between rounds.

how hard do you wanna lean on it?

d'kid

Sounds like a good idea to me. Lose the nitro and lose the fans period. Nitro is what separates professional drag racing from say sprint car or NASCAR. The smell and noise is Drag Racing period!