Randy
Nitro Member
Even back then, winning $5K plus contingencies only meant you didnt loose slightly as much as you normally would for not winning.
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Alcohol Funny Car
- Thread starter Harry
- Start date
Even back then, winning $5K plus contingencies only meant you didnt loose slightly as much as you normally would for not winning.
none
Nitro Member
I have always believed that if your goal getting into racing is to make an annual profit strictly from the purse money then you need a new plan.
I have also always believed that if you go to an event, (anything from a weekend bracket event to a National Event) and win that event you should go home with more money than you left with. And I think that was the case at one time. (At least it was in my case)
Then a couple of things happened. The contingency program faded away. In large part due to two things, the internet, and mail order. I used to wait patiently for the Nationals to come to town because I needed knowledge from the Holley guy, or the Hurst Shifter guy, or I wanted to talk to the Crane Cam guy to find out about the new stuff. Now? I do that with a mouse.
Scott Hall of MOROSO fame told me that his trailer doesn't go to many events anymore because there's no need anymore. He said that they used to sell a lot of product off the trailer at the Nationals and the big Regionals but now sell almost nothing. Guys don't build their own engines so they have no need to talk to a tech guy. If you buy the ready to go engine (as so many do now) then you're not interested at all in a new piston, cylinder head, or camshaft. The manufacturer would be better off sending a sales/tech guy to visit your engine builder than to send a trailer to the racetrack. Why pay me a bonus for using a ABC manifold when I'm not the one who decides what manifold goes on the engine and bought it?
And if a guy needs a vacuum pump or fuel pump for instance, there are 10 guys in the pits who have a spare, they can just borrow one, call Summit and get the replacement either tomorrow, or certainly buy next week.
You also have to factor in the racer mentality of winning at any cost. I used to marvel at the guys who would buy new tires every week at the dirt track races and complain that they spent $800 on tires and it only pays $500 to win. Could you run tires three or four weeks? Sure, and many guys did. But they thought that new tires gave them a better chance to win, so they bought them. And then others had to either buy tires, or get used to running behind they guys that did.
Just look at Lance's post about the new car being built. The new rules allow a racer to buy used "Big Show" stuff to compete at a reduced cost, right? But the caption says "Being assembled with the BEST PARTS MONEY CAN BUY." So please tell me, who's saving money with this deal? And whose fault is it that the guy is spending so much?
Just my opinion,
Alan
I have also always believed that if you go to an event, (anything from a weekend bracket event to a National Event) and win that event you should go home with more money than you left with. And I think that was the case at one time. (At least it was in my case)
Then a couple of things happened. The contingency program faded away. In large part due to two things, the internet, and mail order. I used to wait patiently for the Nationals to come to town because I needed knowledge from the Holley guy, or the Hurst Shifter guy, or I wanted to talk to the Crane Cam guy to find out about the new stuff. Now? I do that with a mouse.
Scott Hall of MOROSO fame told me that his trailer doesn't go to many events anymore because there's no need anymore. He said that they used to sell a lot of product off the trailer at the Nationals and the big Regionals but now sell almost nothing. Guys don't build their own engines so they have no need to talk to a tech guy. If you buy the ready to go engine (as so many do now) then you're not interested at all in a new piston, cylinder head, or camshaft. The manufacturer would be better off sending a sales/tech guy to visit your engine builder than to send a trailer to the racetrack. Why pay me a bonus for using a ABC manifold when I'm not the one who decides what manifold goes on the engine and bought it?
And if a guy needs a vacuum pump or fuel pump for instance, there are 10 guys in the pits who have a spare, they can just borrow one, call Summit and get the replacement either tomorrow, or certainly buy next week.
You also have to factor in the racer mentality of winning at any cost. I used to marvel at the guys who would buy new tires every week at the dirt track races and complain that they spent $800 on tires and it only pays $500 to win. Could you run tires three or four weeks? Sure, and many guys did. But they thought that new tires gave them a better chance to win, so they bought them. And then others had to either buy tires, or get used to running behind they guys that did.
Just look at Lance's post about the new car being built. The new rules allow a racer to buy used "Big Show" stuff to compete at a reduced cost, right? But the caption says "Being assembled with the BEST PARTS MONEY CAN BUY." So please tell me, who's saving money with this deal? And whose fault is it that the guy is spending so much?
Just my opinion,
Alan
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Alan: Thanks for your perspective on this. I follow the Sportsman classes via National Dragster, but I am not a hard-core fan of them. So I did not know this. Very interesting. I look at the pictures of the various Sportsman cars in the event coverage, and wonder why in the world some of the cars have so few manufacturer decals. Whereas some cars are still plastered with them. I thought for sure those cars with so few decals were leaving big $$ on the table when they win, but I guess not so much based on your observations.
To back up Alan (not like he needs it), but the contingency program for sportsman classes is almost non-existent and if they exist, it is extremely difficult to get paid
A forward-thinking organization would make contingencies (pun intended) for this contingency situation and adjust payouts so the most costly sportsmen class payouts are aligned with costs.
I ask this as a serious question: Why do TAD and TAFC need to race at divisionals at all in 2025? What value is there in earning grade points when TAFC struggles to get a dozen cars at a national race?
Chili
Nitro Member
I thought about this as well. However it gives the smaller budget teams a chance to cut their teeth at a smaller event. Also for some the closest national event may be 1500 miles away while a regional may be only 500 miles or less.
Back in the 70s we would go to the Divisional races with the BB/FC and enter the AA/FC class.
IM thinking to win in alcohol was equal to 1st round in fuel. And many times we'd go 1-2 rounds.
none
Nitro Member
OK, I got back from Australia yesterday and am back in the shop today. Figured I better post these before Shannon put me in "Time Out" or something. The first three are the AJ stage 7 TF head.
The next three are the AJ Musclehead for A/F
The chamber size is a big difference as the TF engine only has about 6.5-1 static compression and the A/F engine has 14-1. The ports are also very different. Valve sizes etc. etc. A boosted engine that turns 8K+ RPM has vastly different requirements than an NA engine turning maybe 6K.
And a head designed for a Blown Alcohol engine is very different from both of those. Everything is specialized now.
Alan
The next three are the AJ Musclehead for A/F
The chamber size is a big difference as the TF engine only has about 6.5-1 static compression and the A/F engine has 14-1. The ports are also very different. Valve sizes etc. etc. A boosted engine that turns 8K+ RPM has vastly different requirements than an NA engine turning maybe 6K.
And a head designed for a Blown Alcohol engine is very different from both of those. Everything is specialized now.
Alan
handsome
Nitro Member
here's some facts on money that will shock people that don't race one.. I got out of alky funnies in 2006 and for some reason ( a blow to the head or sniffing too many paint fumes ) I got back into them the end of last year. while I was out, parts prices went up close to 50%! example is in 2006 I bought a brand new billet Velasco crankshaft, $3500... earlier this year I bought a brand new billet crank, $6000!!!! and it's the same on everything as well as a few more certs every 2 years and of coarse travel expense has gone up over 100%. And 17 years later winnings have gone up 0%!!!! which is pathetic. So for that reason I primarily focus on match racing. run it "fat & happy" , guaranteed pay for usually 2 passes and sell around $500 in t-shirts a night. so why go to an NHRA race and beat your stuff to death for chicken scratch?
Fine. Why make teams running for a national championship go somewhere they'd rather not for $2500 to win? Maybe keep the alcohol regionals for a region championship and Jegs, but decouple those from the National title.
Always been pretty touch to make money drag racing, unless you were heavily sponsored. There just hasn't ever been that much money in drag racing. Unless you are a parts manufacturer, like Alan Johnson. Man, is he the smart one or what? He makes a TON of $$ selling all those different cylinder heads (among many other things) that don't cross over to other classes, as Alan Reinhart explains. His business is located on the family farm property in Santa Maria, CA. They of course still make money farming. AND, he gets paid a handsome salary ($200,000/yr?) for being a fly-in Crew Chief for Doug Kalitta. So there IS big money in drag racing, for a few out there. Good for Alan!
Who else can we think of who has made a very good living just from drag racing? Force, Garlits, and The Snake come to mind. Who else? Most everyone else in our sport who is wealthy made their money somewhere else, then spent a lot of it on drag racing.
none
Nitro Member
It's not just AJ. Look at how many different heads you can buy for a Big Block Chevy. I went to the DART website and searched BBC Heads came back with 139 options.
When I was a kid, I used to go to junkyards looking for the Holy Grail of Ford Windsor heads. '69 351 4V and if you found them, that was the best casting there was. Whatever your engine combo it would be better with these. Now? You can buy a specific head for a 302 NA, N2O, Turbo, blown, EFI, Carb, etc. etc. And if you're building a 347, none of those are the best option. There's an entirely different set that is optimized for that engine size.
The heads on my Mustang are only recommended for engines over 400 cubic inches. Would they work on a 302? Sure, but the head made for the 302 would make more power.
Did you know that the best head for a 540 blown BBC isn't even close to the best for a 555 Nitrous engine? Or if you kick a rod out of a 565 and decide to build a 632, you're leaving a lot of HP on the table if you use the same heads? Everything is specialized. You can buy something that will work, or you can buy something that is made specifically for that application. If you're Bracket Racing? Not critical, just change the dial. But if you're looking for all out performance, you need to buy the right part.
Look at Pro Mod. Anytime the boost rules are changed, you don't just change the blower pulleys, you build a new engine. Because when you change the pulleys the same long block combo that makes great power at 20% overdrive isn't going to make maximum power at 16% over.
Alan
P.S. Watch any of the Darin Morgan videos, that guy is a Wizard when it comes to cylinder heads.
When I was a kid, I used to go to junkyards looking for the Holy Grail of Ford Windsor heads. '69 351 4V and if you found them, that was the best casting there was. Whatever your engine combo it would be better with these. Now? You can buy a specific head for a 302 NA, N2O, Turbo, blown, EFI, Carb, etc. etc. And if you're building a 347, none of those are the best option. There's an entirely different set that is optimized for that engine size.
The heads on my Mustang are only recommended for engines over 400 cubic inches. Would they work on a 302? Sure, but the head made for the 302 would make more power.
Did you know that the best head for a 540 blown BBC isn't even close to the best for a 555 Nitrous engine? Or if you kick a rod out of a 565 and decide to build a 632, you're leaving a lot of HP on the table if you use the same heads? Everything is specialized. You can buy something that will work, or you can buy something that is made specifically for that application. If you're Bracket Racing? Not critical, just change the dial. But if you're looking for all out performance, you need to buy the right part.
Look at Pro Mod. Anytime the boost rules are changed, you don't just change the blower pulleys, you build a new engine. Because when you change the pulleys the same long block combo that makes great power at 20% overdrive isn't going to make maximum power at 16% over.
Alan
P.S. Watch any of the Darin Morgan videos, that guy is a Wizard when it comes to cylinder heads.
Chili
Nitro Member
I agree with you completely. However if you eliminate the need for the championship chasers to do regional events, they may only have a car or two to show up. I just wish they could get a decent payout and we could get more cars in the class. This has been an issue for a couple of decades and I can’t see anything changing in the near future.
Randy
Nitro Member
Alan, the contingency programs went south because the sanctioning body, from what I was told, years ago started collecting $1 for every dollar the companies paid to racers in contingencies. On top of that, they had a fee structure for parking spaces in the manufacturer's midway, and charged insurance. That's why some of the manufacturers went away from the pits and from payouts to reimbursing racers in forms of credits if you won. That's one reason you see stickers on cars nowadays that have nothing to do with the contingency program. They are supporting the companies that support them.
I think it was Tim Hyatt who offered valuable racer services in the pits from machine shop services to filling Co2 bottles in the midway, and they were fee'd out. That hurt the little guys/racers who relied on them.
When they did all that, it ruined the pits for the spectators as well, because many enjoyed walking through manufacturer's midway.
I think it was Tim Hyatt who offered valuable racer services in the pits from machine shop services to filling Co2 bottles in the midway, and they were fee'd out. That hurt the little guys/racers who relied on them.
When they did all that, it ruined the pits for the spectators as well, because many enjoyed walking through manufacturer's midway.
none
Nitro Member
I think part of it is the Promoter. Look at what Bill Bader does with his Regional event. Bandimere also made the event a big deal, got fans to come out and many racers that didn't have the best mile high tune up still went to be part of the show. I have gone to tracks that don't have a National Event and some promote it as the biggest event of the year. "280 MPH side by side racing." Meet the drivers." A local band on Saturday night. Many also have a local sponsor to offset the cost.
Find a way to reach the kids, they need a parent to get there. It can be done, but it takes some imagination and effort.
Alan
Find a way to reach the kids, they need a parent to get there. It can be done, but it takes some imagination and effort.
Alan
none
Nitro Member
Randy,
Some of what you say is true. I think that the NHRA could have made it a more "friendly environment." But be honest, how many of today's fans even know how to open a hood? My '67 Mustang? Every nut and bolt on the car is there because I put it there. My Mercedes? When it needs an oil change, I make an appointment at the shop.
Alan
Some of what you say is true. I think that the NHRA could have made it a more "friendly environment." But be honest, how many of today's fans even know how to open a hood? My '67 Mustang? Every nut and bolt on the car is there because I put it there. My Mercedes? When it needs an oil change, I make an appointment at the shop.
Alan
Sherman, Sherm, & Sherm Gun
Nitro Member
When did NHRA make the change from Divisional to Regional events for TAFC and TAD? How did the car count change during that time, or was it a non issue?
Randy
Nitro Member
Eliminating the manufacturers ability to showcase their products to fans and racers by making it ridiculously expensive to do so doesn't help promote the sport or hobby, I think. This started 20+ years ago. The choice for manufacturers was, raise prices to the racers exponentially, or drop that part of your program altogether to keep prices in line and go directly to the racers. The drop was obvious.
TF CREW
Nitro Member
Looks like the same chassis someone I know has been sending me pictures of. Recently sold his brand new TAFC
