A lot of empty seats.......

[mastertone]

I went to my first NASCAR race in 2004 at the Brickyard and enjoyed it. But after I went to Kentucky the next year for the Busch race, Indy is boring. I'm sure having the race now in Kentucky is taking many away from Indy.

 

[nitrobobby]

I was there for the 1st race. IMS relocated me to bad seats turning tower terrace seats to F1 garages . The old school NASCAR fans told me the sight lines are terrible. After watching the race on tv - no point attending. I guess it took the other fans 15 years to figure this out. Also the new Kentucky NASCAR race took a HUGE bite of attendance

 

[mw6789]

Yea like I'm going to watch. Mens Water Polo, instead of any kind of a motorsport.

Screw mens anything-----check out the Brazilian women's volleyball team!!!

 

[Toejam]

In a series that is becoming increasingly boring, Indy is one of the most boring tracks, so that's saying something. By a large margin, the best racing in NASCAR is the truck series, which is why I ditched eliminations at April's 4 wide to go to the Rock.

Attendance has been a big problem at almost all nascar tracks for a few years now. I don't think they sold any tickets at all for the backstretch grandstands at Daytona for the cup race. I think that popularity plateaued in the late 90's, and track owners assumed that demand would keep up with seating, which of course it hasn't.

Mark, Jim Vail who posts here once in awhile has gone to the Night Bristol race for like 7-8 years! He said his seats are about $25-30 cheaper now than they used to be, I believe it's the economy more than anything! But at least NASCAR trims ticket prices during a recession, NHRA doesn't unless a sponsor ponies up!

 

[DrRocket]

He said his seats are about $25-30 cheaper now than they used to be, I believe it's the economy more than anything! But at least NASCAR trims ticket prices during a recession, NHRA doesn't unless a sponsor ponies up!

Up until about 3 years ago, the Kansas track forced you to buy the entire season's ticket package, which meant if you wanted to get tickets to the NASCAR race, you had to buy the IRL (Now Indycar) tickets for that year as well. Why? Because they could get away with it. In 2006, even though the NASCAR race was sold out, a large number of tickets for the IRL race went unused. So if you didn't care to go to the IRL race, you either had to try and sell them (To a weak market.) or just eat the price of those tickets. I talked to a number of people at the NASCAR race who did just that. ("Them IRL drivers are nuthin' but a bunch of sissy boahs!")

A lot of people were VERY unhappy. The track stuck stuck to its guns.

Until 2 years ago.

The economy caught up to them and they finally started selling single event tickets, and at a cheaper price to boot. Plus, they now allow you to carry a soft side cooler in with water or pop (No booze) and snacks.

 

[vegasnitro]

If everyone kept judging members by their past posts, this site would never have a future.

Patrick, I wasn't judging you, nor do I hold a grudge against someone I have never met. It is just I rarely agree with what you post. It is 100% nothing personal. I am also aware that there are probably people here that don't agree with what I post. It's all good.

For the topic at hand, Vegas 1 in '09 or '10 offered $15 GA tickets if you bought them in advance ... and then they never did it again. I emailed LVMS and never got a response. I have wondered why they dropped it.

Like every promoter ever always says, empty seats don't buy hot dogs.

 

[Jon Asher]

When we’re talking about the Cup race at Indy we’re leaving out something very important: The Nationwide race and how it came to be at IMS.

For years the Nationwide race was run on Saturday night at IRP, ORP or whatever they’re calling that place these days. Regardless, the one-night show, which I believe included the Truck series, but won’t swear to that, was a huge artistic and financial success for NHRA.

After last year’s Brickyard 400, which appeared to attract the smallest crowd in the race’s history, NASCAR arbitrarily took the Nationwide race and “gave” it to IMS. Yes, there was going to be a package ticket selling deal, but I can’t honestly say I know that happened.

But, to back up just a moment, after the NASCAR announcement about moving the race a lot of both Cup and Nationwide drivers publicly complained about the capricious nature of NASCAR’s decision. To a man they called the IRP race the “best” Nationwide event of the season. The drivers and sponsors loved the race and loved the venue. More importantly, the fans loved it too.

Losing the race was a big hit for NHRA, a hit they shouldn’t have had to take, but that’s the nature of the business.

Now jump to Saturday of this year, when the Nationwide race at IMS took place in front of a virtually empty set of grandstands. There couldn’t have been more than 10,000 people in the whole place, and I base that on visual comparisons between this race and the equally abysmal turnout for the Indy 500 Pole Day running. The event was an embarrassment for NASCAR on TV, an embarrassment for their sponsors and a huge negative for motorsports in general – and that was only Saturday.

Calling the crowd for the Cup race as 40,000 on Sunday is a large exaggeration and an effort on the part of both IMS and NASCAR to paint a happy face on a fiscal and artistic disaster.

NASCAR doesn’t like to eat crow, so they might stiffen up on this, but even last year there was talk that if moving the Nationwide race to IMS turned out badly, they’d return it to IRP. We need to hope that happens because frankly, NHRA could use another decent payday.

NASCAR may still be the 800 lb. Gorilla in the room, but it’s difficult to ignore the visual evidence of empty grandstands. That’s been the case everywhere from Daytona to Bristol, and Dover to Sonoma. You can’t hide empty grandstands. Indy was no exception.

It’s ironic, but the fact of the matter is that NASCAR is actually better on television than it is live. On the other hand, drag racing is far more exciting in person than it is on TV. The proof is in drag racing’s ticket sales, which are actually up this year. That’s meaningful.

Jon Asher
Senior Editor
CompetitionPlus.com

 

[Mike]

The estimated attendence was 125,000 down from 138,000 in 2011 and the lowest ever for a Cup race

 

[Jon Asher]

Come on Mike.

Estimated by who? (Or it that "whom?")

There is no way in the world there were 125,000 at the Cup race. All you had to do was watch one lap of the race and watch the background rather than the cars. There were NO areas of the track that included packed grandstands.

Jon Asher

 

[Jon Asher]

Alas, you can forget what I suggested about the Nationwide race returning to IRP.

IMS just put out a press release announcing a ticket package for returning ticket holders for 2013 that includes the Nationwide and Grand-Am races.

A year in advance I'll predict another fiasco at the gate.

Jon Asher

 

[.]

Come on Mike.

Estimated by who? (Or it that "whom?")

There is no way in the world there were 125,000 at the Cup race. All you had to do was watch one lap of the race and watch the background rather than the cars. There were NO areas of the track that included packed grandstands.

Jon Asher

Try running a drag race in that cavern and see what it looks like.

And the 40k I mentioned was for the Nationwide race. It sounded a tad high, and I had my doubts, but the Nationwide race at the Newton Iowa facility drew +/- 42,000 this year, 37,811 last year, down from 56,000 in 2010 so 40k at Indy is certainly plausible.

I watched very little of it, and I do know they tried to keep the focus off of the areas where seating was, but really, does it matter? There was no way they were going to shoehorn 258k in there for either the Nationwide or Cup race.

The estimates come from the sanctioning body, (I am positive that ticket sales factor in as well) same as NHRA's do. Are we to assume that NHRA's numbers are as grossly over exaggerated as Nascars supposedly are?

 

[Mike]

Jon, didnt say I agreed with it but thats what is posted. It is also posted that the attendance for the Nationwide race was 40,000.


Back to the subject, NASCAR has had a tough sell at IMS after the 1st race it has been down hill and bringing the Nationwide race did nothing for a bigger crowd. I agree, the Nationwide race should go back to IRP.

 

[Jon Asher]

Regarding the crowd at IMS, since when do we take attendance figures announced by a sanctioning organization seriously?

NHRA does not announce attendance figures and haven’t for years.

“The Cup race was the smallest crowd in the history of the event… We knew the Nationwide crowd would look small…but the crowd was smaller than expected.” – Terry Blount, ESPN.com

Ed Hinton of ESPN.com rated the race a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being best.

Three other ESPN writers rated it between a 3 and 5.

“The Nationwide race doesn’t belong at Indianapolis Motor Speedway…” – Marty Smith, ESPN Insider.

“The most exciting event of the weekend was arguably Friday night’s ARCA race at nearby Lucas Oil Raceway…” Jordan McGraw, a NASCAR fan writing on ESPN.com. He also graded the race weekend as a D.

This race should be returned to IRP, but hey, if I knew anything I’d be in Glendora!

Jon Asher
Senior Editor
CompetitionPlus.com

 

[Nunz]

Regarding NHRA crowds, it seems like the 2 most recent events, Denver and Sonoma, had nice crowds Fri-Sunday.

 

[Toejam]

Try running a drag race in that cavern and see what it looks like.

And the 40k I mentioned was for the Nationwide race. It sounded a tad high, and I had my doubts, but the Nationwide race at the Newton Iowa facility drew +/- 42,000 this year, 37,811 last year, down from 56,000 in 2010 so 40k at Indy is certainly plausible.

I watched very little of it, and I do know they tried to keep the focus off of the areas where seating was, but really, does it matter? There was no way they were going to shoehorn 258k in there for either the Nationwide or Cup race.

The estimates come from the sanctioning body, (I am positive that ticket sales factor in as well) same as NHRA's do. Are we to assume that NHRA's numbers are as grossly over exaggerated as Nascars supposedly are?

If we're talkin Percentages, I doubt NHRA has anything to worry about! Not in 2012 at least! But.....Sponsors look at NASCAR when looking at the viability of Motorsports sponsor wise! And if NASCAR is suffering, the entire Motorsports industry is suffering! If NASCAR Isn't filling the tracks, why sponsor NHRA or IRL???

 

[vegasnitro]

IMS is so big, that you can put 100,000 in there and the place looks empty. I know because I attended several of the F1 races there. Before the 2005 Michelin-gate fiasco, the average attendance was 120,000 ... and the place looked stone empty. The race was cancelled after 2008 even though it was the highest attended event on the F1 calendar, mostly because Tony George wasn't making any money despite the high attendance (compared to all other F1 events) and Bernie didn't like the way "it looked on TV", read: too many empty seats. Perception is reality, and if people watch on TV and see empty seats, it detracts from the event, no matter how many people are actually there.

I have said it before and I will say it again, we are at a crossroads for ALL spectator sports in America. Technology is so good (HDTV, specialized coverage from the cable/satellite providers, DVRs, internet and social media) that is tough to beat what you get at home. Plus, the ancillary costs are absolutely userous when it comes to attending an event. I honestly don't believe too many people have problems with tickets prices per se, but when you factor in outrageous prices for parking, beer, soda, souvenirs and hot dogs ... it makes it real easy to stay home and watch your favorite sport in HD and chat with your friends on Facebook or make snarky tweets.

 

[Huge]

IMS is so big, that you can put 100,000 in there and the place looks empty. I know because I attended several of the F1 races there. Before the 2005 Michelin-gate fiasco, the average attendance was 120,000 ... and the place looked stone empty. The race was cancelled after 2008 even though it was the highest attended event on the F1 calendar, mostly because Tony George wasn't making any money despite the high attendance (compared to all other F1 events) and Bernie didn't like the way "it looked on TV", read: too many empty seats. Perception is reality, and if people watch on TV and see empty seats, it detracts from the event, no matter how many people are actually there.

I have said it before and I will say it again, we are at a crossroads for ALL spectator sports in America. Technology is so good (HDTV, specialized coverage from the cable/satellite providers, DVRs, internet and social media) that is tough to beat what you get at home. Plus, the ancillary costs are absolutely userous when it comes to attending an event. I honestly don't believe too many people have problems with tickets prices per se, but when you factor in outrageous prices for parking, beer, soda, souvenirs and hot dogs ... it makes it real easy to stay home and watch your favorite sport in HD and chat with your friends on Facebook or make snarky tweets.

This is a really good post.

 

[rollingthunder]

Regarding NHRA crowds, it seems like the 2 most recent events, Denver and Sonoma, had nice crowds Fri-Sunday.

I was in denver and I thought attendance was down. All 3 days you are usually fighting for a fence spot. I never had that trouble all weekend and the pits was not pushing and shoving like usual.

 

[Mark]

I have said it before and I will say it again, we are at a crossroads for ALL spectator sports in America. Technology is so good (HDTV, specialized coverage from the cable/satellite providers, DVRs, internet and social media) that is tough to beat what you get at home. Plus, the ancillary costs are absolutely userous when it comes to attending an event. I honestly don't believe too many people have problems with tickets prices per se, but when you factor in outrageous prices for parking, beer, soda, souvenirs and hot dogs ... it makes it real easy to stay home and watch your favorite sport in HD and chat with your friends on Facebook or make snarky tweets.

I think this is key, which is why the NFL (believe it or not) has had problems with attendance. You'd think that every NFL game should at least almost sell out, but they don't, because watching at home on a gigantic HD screen is seen by many as a better experience. And even if live is better, ancillary costs, as you mention, can go through the roof, so sometimes its easier to stay at home for that reason.

I may be biased, but I still think NHRA gives you the most bang for the buck when compared against any other brand of motorsports. Of course this isn't counting local racing, which is cheaper than a night out at the movies.

 

[Mike]

Despite sharp attendance declines in recent years at the Brickyard 400, the event remains hugely profitable for the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, motorsports industry experts say. NASCAR officials estimated attendance at this year's race in Indianapolis at 125,000, down from 138,000 last year. In 2007, race attendance was more than 200,000. The Speedway makes enough television revenue-close to $6 million-to pay its NASCAR sanctioning fee, according to industry experts, leaving the track with most of the revenue from ticket sales, concessions and parking. Motorsports business experts estimated that the Speedway made at least $9 million in ticket revenue from Sunday's Brickyard 400 and another $1 million to $2 million from Saturday's Nationwide Series race, which until this year has been held at Lucas Oil Raceway a few miles to the west. The IMS also for the first time hosted the Grand Am Series, but that wasn't likely a big moneymaker since attendance was only about 10,000. A new Brickyard 400 title sponsorship deal with Crown Royal added another $2 million to the Speedway's take.