Windham's Ride (2 Viewers)

[Bullet]

Windham's was either a very good job of driving, or a very bad job of driving that turned out good. It's often hard to tell the difference.

That's right... good driving keeps you out of those situations.

If you want to see good driving get a copy of Jeggie at C'bus (I think) a few years ago when the PS cars were tipping over left right and centre.

Granted Jeggie had seen Taylor Lasto and Jason Line go over ahead of him, but as soon as his car started to get loose he had the chutes out in an instant.

PS. This isn't a dis on Bill, getting the feel of one of those cars would take a few laps.

 

[Nunz]

Many times I've heard WJ say that driving a PS car is like going 200 on ice, very touchy. I imagine a big part of it is lack of downforce. For how fast they're going, they really don't have much rear spoiler.

 

[jpee]

Windham's was either a very good job of driving, or a very bad job of driving that turned out good. It's often hard to tell the difference.

If I were to guess... I'd lean toward the 2nd (Bad driving with luck on his side) Can anyone post a video of it here ?

 

[Toyse Jr]

Not a video but pictures from CompetitionPlus:
Torco Racing Fuel's Competition Plus.com - Drag Racing's Internet Magazine - WINDAM'S REAL BIG OH!

 

[HEMI6point1]

Obviously you missed the thread a while back about Big O tires suing Dick Maskin, aka Dart over the "Big M" line of blocks/heads, claiming copyright infringement. The legal expenses could put Dart out of business.

http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/2384-stupid-lawsuit-threatens-maskin.html?highlight=Dart

there's the link to the original thread

Oh yes, I remember that. Big O Tires is a sure candidate for a "stella award."

 

[Pat]

NHRA needs to pull this guy's license before he hurts himself, or someone else. Anyone that gets in trouble in the first 60 feet and doesn't have enough common sense to push in the clutch, is just an accident going someplace to happen. What did he think he was going to do? Did he really think he was going to qualify if he kept his foot in it? Just because you have the money to go P/S racing, doesn't mean you are a P/S driver. If he wants to be the next Joey Chitwood, take it someplace else, where it won't endanger other participants.

Pat

 

[Eracer]

Was there Friday night and Yes he did an awesome job of driving.
Although it's not mentioned here he did have trouble with the burn-out and was not allowed to do another one. I have to think that had something to do with it. Not trying to cast blame here but; it seemed to me he had enough time to do a burn-out but wasn't allowed to.

 

[Bullet]

Was there Friday night and Yes he did an awesome job of driving.
Although it's not mentioned here he did have trouble with the burn-out and was not allowed to do another one. I have to think that had something to do with it. Not trying to cast blame here but; it seemed to me he had enough time to do a burn-out but wasn't allowed to.

I drove an Aussie Pro Stock car back in '95 (NHRA C/A equivalant at the time) and found that the burnout was one of the hardest things to master in terms of keeping the car straight as it was stationary in the burnout. You have to make sure you have enough brake pressure to hold the car straight while it was stationary at the start of the burnout, then know when to let the line lock off as it started to kick sideways so you could drive out of it smoothly and if it started to kick sideways making sure you got it straight enough before you got off the gas so it didn't throw you back the other way. Also listening to the engine, glancing at the tach making sure you didn't over rev it killing valve springs and waiting to feel it start to "bite" so that you didn't rattle it to pieces as the ground speed and rear wheel speed met.

When the car was hooked up it was easy to drive.... when it was loose... hold on and know when to clutch it to free the drive wheels to remove load from the car.

That was an 800hp 2200lb car. I am sure a 1200hp 2350lb car would be a lot more of a handfull!

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

NHRA needs to pull this guy's license before he hurts himself, or someone else. Anyone that gets in trouble in the first 60 feet and doesn't have enough common sense to push in the clutch, is just an accident going someplace to happen. What did he think he was going to do? Did he really think he was going to qualify if he kept his foot in it? Just because you have the money to go P/S racing, doesn't mean you are a P/S driver. If he wants to be the next Joey Chitwood, take it someplace else, where it won't endanger other participants.

Pat

Let's not "drop the clutch" on this guy so fast. There has been more than one prime-time driver that ended up on their lid early in their Pro Stock career but turned out to be pretty decent, including each member of the most dominant Pro Stock team the past 4 years and counting..................

I'm not saying this guy is the next Greg Anderson or anything, but he certainly deserves a little more latitude than just one mistake. You're right in saying that having enough money to run Pro Stock doesn't make you a driver, but I can tell you, these cars are not the easiest thing in the world to drive when they start acting up. That was over 10 years ago, so I can't imagine how finicky they are now.

Sean D

 

[.]

Let's not "drop the clutch" on this guy so fast. There has been more than one prime-time driver that ended up on their lid early in their Pro Stock career but turned out to be pretty decent, including each member of the most dominant Pro Stock team the past 4 years and counting..................

I'm not saying this guy is the next Greg Anderson or anything, but he certainly deserves a little more latitude than just one mistake. You're right in saying that having enough money to run Pro Stock doesn't make you a driver, but I can tell you, these cars are not the easiest thing in the world to drive when they start acting up. That was over 10 years ago, so I can't imagine how finicky they are now.

Sean D

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Do the names Kurt Johnson, Greg Anderson, Jason Line, Taylor Lastor and Erica Enders ring any bells?

 

[none]

Let's not "drop the clutch" on this guy so fast. There has been more than one prime-time driver that ended up on their lid early in their Pro Stock career but turned out to be pretty decent,
Sean D

WHAT ??????? He was OUT OF THE GROOVE next to the wall in the FIRST 30 FEET !!! And he didn't lift ??? It's tricky enough when you're in the groove BUT if you're out of the groove that soon you don't have a chance !!!!!!
Another GOOF like that should be reason enough to JERK his license !!!!
I'll bet he's already had a stiff warning !!!

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

WHAT ??????? He was OUT OF THE GROOVE next to the wall in the FIRST 30 FEET !!! And he didn't lift ??? It's tricky enough when you're in the groove BUT if you're out of the groove that soon you don't have a chance !!!!!!
Another GOOF like that should be reason enough to JERK his license !!!!
I'll bet he's already had a stiff warning !!!

So, what's your point?

I never said the guy didn't make a mistake, but when it comes to being critical of Pro Stock drivers making mistakes, you'd better do a little more homework. Like I said before, not only have there been some big names screw up, they've done it with many more passes under their belt than this guy.

I have to assume by the level of conviction in your post that you've driven these cars? If you have and you are just that good, I applaud you, because I have driven these cars and know how quick they can get away from you (and that was when they were running 7-teens!). Otherwise, don't you think it would be fair to give him a little latitude?

I would actually agree with you, John, in that if it happens again, he probably would need to be looked at closer, but let's not throw him under the bus just yet.

Sean D

 

[The Counterfeiter]

WHAT ??????? He was OUT OF THE GROOVE next to the wall in the FIRST 30 FEET !!! And he didn't lift ??? It's tricky enough when you're in the groove BUT if you're out of the groove that soon you don't have a chance !!!!!!
Another GOOF like that should be reason enough to JERK his license !!!!
I'll bet he's already had a stiff warning !!!

I'm going to have to vote for this being the dumbest post of 2007.
It's probably a good thing that NHRA didn't JERK Jason's license after he stayed in it a little too far and put his car on it's lid.
Windham did an amazing job to keep the car from going over. If you are such an expert on P/S, I would love to see how you would do driving one of these cars.
Your use of the word "JERK" is very appropriate!

 

[RMS]

I'm going to have to vote for this being the dumbest post of 2007.
It's probably a good thing that NHRA didn't JERK Jason's license after he stayed in it a little too far and put his car on it's lid.
Windham did an amazing job to keep the car from going over. If you are such an expert on P/S, I would love to see how you would do driving one of these cars.
Your use of the word "JERK" is very appropriate!

Ill second that, i know Bill personally and he has driven a lot of different kinds of cars and has been around racing a long time. He knows what he is doing when he is in the drivers seat, and that was a little bit of luck mixed with a lot of good driving. He will do fine and has made more laps in a pro stock car than most of you know. Give the guy a chance, you cant criticize him after his first mistake!

 

[Pat]

It seems most of you missed the point of my last post. Yes, KJ, GA, JL and many other top tier drivers have had on track incidents, but, and this is a big but, their incidents usually had to do with either a mechanical failure (parachutes, blown freeze plug, brake rotor) or a track problem (oil on the track, water seepage), not their inability to recognize when they were in danger. This guy was going no where on that run. For him to qualify, he would have had to make a career best run, picture perfect, no mistakes. At the 30 foot mark his run was history, why not clutch it, save the car and come back the next day? Correct me if I'm wrong, but due to his "driving", the car was not able to come back the next day.
Now, I don't know this guy, and for all I know he may be the next "great" driver, but I suggest he line up several test sessions so he can get some quality seat time, before he ventures back to a national event. Learning when you are in over your head, is best learned in a test session, not a national event.
As far as these cars being hard to drive, ask any competitive P/S driver, a properly setup car is very comfortable to drive.....a incorrectly setup car is more than a handfull. The driver and the car have to work together.

Pat

 

[Toejam]

Who used to drive that Pro stock that had St. Judes' Hospital on it? Mid 90's, he went for a ride like that in Phoenix one year!

 

[Chili]

I think it was Jim Basko.

 

[Chili]

Was there Friday night and Yes he did an awesome job of driving.
Although it's not mentioned here he did have trouble with the burn-out and was not allowed to do another one. I have to think that had something to do with it. Not trying to cast blame here but; it seemed to me he had enough time to do a burn-out but wasn't allowed to.

If I remember right, he actually backed up into the waterbox to do another one and they didn't allow him to. One of his crew members was shaking his head when Windham pulled to the line. With his burnout problems he should of clicked it as soon as he got out of shape. I'm sure if it happens again he will make the right decision.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

It seems most of you missed the point of my last post. Pat

I didn't miss your point at all. You said point blank that NHRA should pull his license, and I just happen to think that's bull$hit. This guy has been driving race cars for a number of years, so should he have been able to better recognize when he was in trouble on this run? Probably so. But pull his license after one incident? That's ridiculous.

As for your statement of all the other drivers having something exceptional happen to cause their respective crashes, I don't think so.............not all of them. If the big dogs that have crashed posted on here, I have no doubt that most would tell you that they did in fact make a mistake, learned from it, and are better drivers today because of it.

Sean D

 

[nick name]

I didn't miss your point at all. You said point blank that NHRA should pull his license, and I just happen to think that's bull$hit. This guy has been driving race cars for a number of years, so should he have been able to better recognize when he was in trouble on this run? Probably so. But pull his license after one incident? That's ridiculous.

I have to agree with where Pat's coming from. It's all about good judgement and not putting yourself, your equipment, or anyone else in jeopardy. I understand the guy has lots of experience in lots of different kinds of cars, but there's a lot more needed than just car control.

When he was racing one of the Formula classes, I suppose it's good form to save the car and keep it from hitting anything. While no one wants to, cars leaving the track happens pretty often.

A Pro Stock car is way different. They never should be out of shape since they react much quicker, have much more acceleration, and have totally different suspensions than other forms of race cars.

From the suspension geometry to travel, there's not a builder I'm aware of who constructs cars to be capable in slaloms.

A permanent suspension? No, I don't think so. But I totally agree with Pat in that a lot more passes need to be made, and the fundamentals understood, before Windham competes again.

I see you've mentioned you've driven a PS car before. I value your viewpoint, but are you aware of Pat's background? I'd hazard a guess he's watched thousands of PS passes from the starting line.