Who really is the starter? (2 Viewers)

[kegs]

Virgil

I'm not trying to be a wiseguy and have been around nitro cars, what do the crewguys do to shut off the motor that the driver can't do as safely or without dropping fluid? Again I'm not questioning the method just wanting to learn something.

 

[.]

Will the Force fans in the '06 thread make the same claims now?
Hmmm.... somehow I doubt it.

Here's the thread.

http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/3473-schumacher-ignores-shut-off-order.html

 

[Treeshaker]

Virgil

I'm not trying to be a wiseguy and have been around nitro cars, what do the crewguys do to shut off the motor that the driver can't do as safely or without dropping fluid? Again I'm not questioning the method just wanting to learn something.

Who are you trying to kid about being a wiseguy?

A driver pulls the fuel shutoff to shut the motor down. At the end of a run there are negative G's that create an air bubble in the main line that helps allow the motor to suck the remaining fuel out of the pressure side of the fuel system. At stand still there is no help and when the driver pulls the fuel shutoff the rpms will go up dramatically and then as some lines are emptied and others aren't, you start to get popping. The severity of the popping will determine the amount of damage to the internals of the engine. It is unwise to ever shut the ignition off while the motor is turning and fuel is present after it has been running.

Whenever I shut my cars off at a stationary position, I either pull the fuel shutoff and then squirt gas (gas splashes off the blades and hits the ground) into the injectors until the lines are clean or I pull the main distribution line off the back of the metering valve (I had Waterman quick disconnects on them to allow this to be done quickly, and fuel leaks and hits the ground) and let all lines become clear of fuel. Either way, spark plugs must be pulled and the motor turned over to make sure all cylinders and lines are clean. The dangers of shutting off and restarting a fuel car are many, and that is the reason at national events once your car has started, if it dies you cannot restart it.

The other problem of shutting the cars off on the line is the clutch has gone through it's normal heat cycle during the burnout. If you shut the car off and do not service the clutch, it will either go through a second heat cycle and additional wear with another burnout, or not be as you want it to be if you bypass a burn out prior to the run.

And to clarify for everyone, NO ONE DEFIED ANY ONE in this instance. Things changed with the situation as it progressed and the instructions changed. There was no panic and everyone did a good job.

Most drivers are instructed by the crew chief to follow the instructions of only one person outside the car, and that is usually him or his designate. You will find that people outside the team will create more problems than they help by telling the driver things to do. The crewchief is the leader of the team and the driver is just but one of it's members, even if he/she is the owner.

 

[mw6789]

Thanks once again Virgil for sharing your expert insight with us. Sounds like a potentially dangerous situation was totally under control. Sure looked crazy from my seat in the stands, but like the rest of us, I didnt have benefit of radio communication.

 

[scooter]

Who are you trying to kid about being a wiseguy?

A driver pulls the fuel shutoff to shut the motor down. At the end of a run there are negative G's that create an air bubble in the main line that helps allow the motor to suck the remaining fuel out of the pressure side of the fuel system. At stand still there is no help and when the driver pulls the fuel shutoff the rpms will go up dramatically and then as some lines are emptied and others aren't, you start to get popping. The severity of the popping will determine the amount of damage to the internals of the engine. It is unwise to ever shut the ignition off while the motor is turning and fuel is present after it has been running.

Whenever I shut my cars off at a stationary position, I either pull the fuel shutoff and then squirt gas (gas splashes off the blades and hits the ground) into the injectors until the lines are clean or I pull the main distribution line off the back of the metering valve (I had Waterman quick disconnects on them to allow this to be done quickly, and fuel leaks and hits the ground) and let all lines become clear of fuel. Either way, spark plugs must be pulled and the motor turned over to make sure all cylinders and lines are clean. The dangers of shutting off and restarting a fuel car are many, and that is the reason at national events once your car has started, if it dies you cannot restart it.

The other problem of shutting the cars off on the line is the clutch has gone through it's normal heat cycle during the burnout. If you shut the car off and do not service the clutch, it will either go through a second heat cycle and additional wear with another burnout, or not be as you want it to be if you bypass a burn out prior to the run.

And to clarify for everyone, NO ONE DEFIED ANY ONE in this instance. Things changed with the situation as it progressed and the instructions changed. There was no panic and everyone did a good job.

Most drivers are instructed by the crew chief to follow the instructions of only one person outside the car, and that is usually him or his designate. You will find that people outside the team will create more problems than they help by telling the driver things to do. The crewchief is the leader of the team and the driver is just but one of it's members, even if he/she is the owner.

Virgil, both of your posts in this thread are the voice of reason and experience. You have been there/done that/got the T-shirt.

 

[kegs]

Virgil

Thanks! I hadn't thought about the negative g's. I am familiar with when shutting off the motor shooting fuel into the injector after we warm it. Makes sense.

 

[Kansas Stan]

Hopefully that will put a cork in this whine fest.

 

[TF CREW]

Who are you trying to kid about being a wiseguy?

A driver pulls the fuel shutoff to shut the motor down. At the end of a run there are negative G's that create an air bubble in the main line that helps allow the motor to suck the remaining fuel out of the pressure side of the fuel system. At stand still there is no help and when the driver pulls the fuel shutoff the rpms will go up dramatically and then as some lines are emptied and others aren't, you start to get popping. The severity of the popping will determine the amount of damage to the internals of the engine. It is unwise to ever shut the ignition off while the motor is turning and fuel is present after it has been running.

Whenever I shut my cars off at a stationary position, I either pull the fuel shutoff and then squirt gas (gas splashes off the blades and hits the ground) into the injectors until the lines are clean or I pull the main distribution line off the back of the metering valve (I had Waterman quick disconnects on them to allow this to be done quickly, and fuel leaks and hits the ground) and let all lines become clear of fuel. Either way, spark plugs must be pulled and the motor turned over to make sure all cylinders and lines are clean. The dangers of shutting off and restarting a fuel car are many, and that is the reason at national events once your car has started, if it dies you cannot restart it.

The other problem of shutting the cars off on the line is the clutch has gone through it's normal heat cycle during the burnout. If you shut the car off and do not service the clutch, it will either go through a second heat cycle and additional wear with another burnout, or not be as you want it to be if you bypass a burn out prior to the run.

And to clarify for everyone, NO ONE DEFIED ANY ONE in this instance. Things changed with the situation as it progressed and the instructions changed. There was no panic and everyone did a good job.

Most drivers are instructed by the crew chief to follow the instructions of only one person outside the car, and that is usually him or his designate. You will find that people outside the team will create more problems than they help by telling the driver things to do. The crewchief is the leader of the team and the driver is just but one of it's members, even if he/she is the owner.

Virgil thanks for the repley from a respected person car owner and CC, as I found it hard to sit here and read all the keyboard CC's and refrain from posting myself and get flamed on since I am just a lowly head tech.

 

[JB3]

um ok Jim, I was actually thinking he or the tower having the ability to talk directly to the driver would be a useful tool for him and make his job, ya know keeping things safe and running smoothly, a little easier for him. It would take out crews chiefs overriding or drivers claiming not to see.
Of course I guess they could go one further and just have remote kill switches at the line but that would really cheese people off.

and yes I do have more pressing issues going on right now, forgive me for trying to relax my mind for a few minutes of peace and come someplace to chat

I wasn't refuting your idea PJ. While your opinions tend to be a bit on the strong side, you present many good ideas here ... but if you just wanted to chat on the topic, maybe an opening besides "Drama Rick" would have been more appropriate, don't you think? Kind of teenager like when we have to lead adult converstaions with name calling. Just my opinion. You don't have to approve of anybody in this life, but because people on the Mater don't like Rick, is he really bad at what he does. That's all I meant !!