When Common Sense Failed (1 Viewer)
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Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
Love it, Bobby! Well done!
Sean D
Sean D
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
I do NOT think Tommy was using the drug for preformance enhansment.
I believe he used it for what it was intended, to treat a medical problem.
What bothers me is the fact that nhra gave him a license at all -
, with that condition.
I believe he used it for what it was intended, to treat a medical problem.
What bothers me is the fact that nhra gave him a license at all -
, with that condition.
Rajunz
Nitro Member
Why wouldn't they? It's a treatable condition. If it's treated properly, he's just like any other driver out there...........What bothers me is the fact that nhra gave him a license at all -
mike
Nitro Member
Are you serious dude? IT has nothing to do with the fact he's American. Don't forget the team he was racing for were European, and they got screwed too. The Andersen's and TJ deserved to have that title, the FIA just got this one wrong. Simple. Nothing to do with the fact TJ was American.
PiPPi
Nitro Member
My dog in this hunt is that I spent a lot of time in the USA and it has influenced my whole life in what I consider a positive way.
My parents lived in the US for some 30 years and my father was always very adamant about the understanding of being a guest and that you behave correctly and with courtesy when you have a good host.
He passed away this last Saturday morning. I got the message while preparing for the second day of drag racing commentary at the Santa Pod Finals. It was not the best of situations for going live but I know that he'd very much have appreciated the Santa Pod tribute to the 9/11 tragedy, involving representatives of the armed forces of the US.
I talked briefly with Mr. Johnson at Santa Pod and Tierp and have the utmost respect for him and obviously the team. I'm absolutely convinced that there is not one single person on this earth that thinks there were any bad intentions in the way that the paper work was handled.
But that's not the point. There are a few people that can attest to the fact that I'm not the biggest fan of the FIA but this latest tack on the Tommy Johnson Jr./FIA debacle as some sort of ill will against the country and people of the United States of America is an embarrassment. The generalizations I see in the comments here and in other fora is an affront and insult to a lot of very good people all over the world.
________________
Things change but this link is from the FIA website as of the time of this writing - http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/governance/Documents/commissions-sport-2011.pdf
Graham Light is listed as the President of the FIA Drag Racing Commission.
Regards
Par Willen
Stockholm, Sweden
My parents lived in the US for some 30 years and my father was always very adamant about the understanding of being a guest and that you behave correctly and with courtesy when you have a good host.
He passed away this last Saturday morning. I got the message while preparing for the second day of drag racing commentary at the Santa Pod Finals. It was not the best of situations for going live but I know that he'd very much have appreciated the Santa Pod tribute to the 9/11 tragedy, involving representatives of the armed forces of the US.
I talked briefly with Mr. Johnson at Santa Pod and Tierp and have the utmost respect for him and obviously the team. I'm absolutely convinced that there is not one single person on this earth that thinks there were any bad intentions in the way that the paper work was handled.
But that's not the point. There are a few people that can attest to the fact that I'm not the biggest fan of the FIA but this latest tack on the Tommy Johnson Jr./FIA debacle as some sort of ill will against the country and people of the United States of America is an embarrassment. The generalizations I see in the comments here and in other fora is an affront and insult to a lot of very good people all over the world.
________________
Things change but this link is from the FIA website as of the time of this writing - http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/governance/Documents/commissions-sport-2011.pdf
Graham Light is listed as the President of the FIA Drag Racing Commission.
Regards
Par Willen
Stockholm, Sweden
robinjackson
Nitro Member
Like Par, I hold no brief for the FIA. But glance through the list on this link. See how much it is involved in. Its website will tell you it directly sanctions 28different motorsports worldwide, plus countless others through its national affiliates.
Common sense suggests that a large international organisation which sanctions a multiplicity of sports disciplines -- drag racing just one small part -- must apply its regulations squarely and consistently to everyone everywhere.
Is CompPlus saying the rules should be waived to suit one guy because he's American, while every other nationality must still abide by them?
We all know TJ's only error was failing to fill in the right form at the right time.
Unfortunately, in any kind of jurisdiction anywhere, ignorance of the law is not considered a defence.
"Sorry, Judge, I didn't know it was against the law to knife that guy / rob that bank / shoot that whale from a moving vehicle in Tennessee."
"That's all right, son, you're free to go. But you'll know better next time."
Hans Brings put it succinctly in another thread on this subject. If a Dutch guy shows up at a US port of entry (or a UK one for that matter) with marijuana in his bag, telling the friendly Customs officer, "It's legal in my country, I didn't know it was illegal in yours," isn't going to cut much ice.
Everyone in drag racing, from the FIA Drag Racing Commission on down, was willing TJ to win his appeal and show up at Santa Pod with the Andersens this past weekend to race and secure their championship.
Bobby Bennett
Nitro Member
Just to reiterate. The FIA accepts NHRA licensing as part of their program. Along with this program comes ALL of the licensing aspects which includes the physical examination and drug screening.
If you weren't going to accept all aspects, you should have administered the drug screening as the exception before the season began, not when the guy is one round shy of capturing the title.
When Tommy went in to submit, he notified the tester of the prescription medication and the prescription and the doctor's diagnosis. So yes, he did submit.
Rules are rules. but so is expelling an elementary school student for taking a plastic knife from the cafeteria. It's considered a zero-tolerance rule violation against a no-weapons rule.
A man is speeding to a hospital with his wife in child labor, he is breaking the law in speeding but does the officer make the man (A) wait, so he can write a ticket or does he (B) use common sense to realize the man is not intentionally speeding and correct the situation.
It's called letting common sense dictate the course of action.
Never in my editorial was my opinion directed towards TJ's fellow racers or the European drag racing fan community. My comments, my opinion, was directed towards the FIA for the way they handled the situation.
Their act of exercising, what I deem to be common sense.
If you weren't going to accept all aspects, you should have administered the drug screening as the exception before the season began, not when the guy is one round shy of capturing the title.
When Tommy went in to submit, he notified the tester of the prescription medication and the prescription and the doctor's diagnosis. So yes, he did submit.
Rules are rules. but so is expelling an elementary school student for taking a plastic knife from the cafeteria. It's considered a zero-tolerance rule violation against a no-weapons rule.
A man is speeding to a hospital with his wife in child labor, he is breaking the law in speeding but does the officer make the man (A) wait, so he can write a ticket or does he (B) use common sense to realize the man is not intentionally speeding and correct the situation.
It's called letting common sense dictate the course of action.
Never in my editorial was my opinion directed towards TJ's fellow racers or the European drag racing fan community. My comments, my opinion, was directed towards the FIA for the way they handled the situation.
Their act of exercising, what I deem to be common sense.
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PiPPi
Nitro Member
If you have time to spare, please mail me a phone number and an appropriate time to reach you at [email protected]
Regards
PiPPi
http://HarleyDrags.com
robinjackson
Nitro Member
It seems apparent that NHRA's rules in this area do not accord with FIA's. There lies the nub of the matter.
Bobby Bennett
Nitro Member
My point exactly Robin. Nice time to point it out with just one round left to clinch the title.
The Mighty
Nitro Member
And as NHRA is an ACCUS member and as such agrees to be bound by the FIA sporting code, who's fault exactly is that Bobby?
I love the way you use the term "licensing" rather than stating the obvious about a "license".
ACCUS grants FIA international licenses as the US ASN. FIA doesn't deem the NHRA license as acceptable in any of its documentation on the subject. It deems the on-track licensing procedure, medical and other requirements as acceptable as it does with other ASN's and clubs around the world. It does not deem any rule, sporting or technical regulation maintained by any ASN or member club as acceptable. It sets out what is acceptable for its ASN's and member clubs in its Sporting Code. Technical Regulations and Procedures are defined seperately depending on the race series.
It IS necessary to obtain an FIA international license to compete internationally and an NHRA license is NOT acceptable under the FIA sporting code. In applying for the FIA international license ACCUS along with all other ASN's make it quite clear that all drivers will need to adhere to the FIA Sporting Code which is readily available for reference.
The FIA sporting code clearly represents the actions needed to be taken by a competitor who uses a banned drug for therapeutic use and is readily available to anyone who wishes to read it, not just the competitors with an FIA license who have signed up to it.
Sadly TJ and the Andersens weren't as aware of the regulations as they should have been and the only argument is who's fault that is and the reasons behind it. The outcome is that there is no question over the correct and necessary use of Dexedrine even though the FIA did not grant TJ's TUE, the question is simply and always will be about procedure, exactly as in Mike Strasburg's case. Mike was fined and served a ban for his failure in the procedure by NHRA and this was later lessened under mitigation on appeal in much the same way TJ's was. Both were cases based on procedural irregularities and both ended in a ban. Both were a sad indictment of the world we live in today where the use of performance enhancing drugs is far too common and in order to fully combat this the governing bodies must uphold not only the banned drugs lists but also the procedures for testing and reporting.
Bobby, I would guess you haven't bothered reading either the ACCUS - Information for FIA License Applicants or The FIA Sporting Code and its Appendices as that would be good, decent journalism but nobody would ever accuse you of that would they? If the FIA series is so "tin pot" and has proved itself so unworthy can I ask why you still publish a report on the FIA European Finals? So European racers and fans aren't racist and you weren't pointing your comments at them, but the FIA are? Are there any other groups you'd like to add to your caveat there about who isn't racist in Europe? I'd love to know how that works.
The FIA couldn't give a **** who wins our little championship, they are not NHRA and have nothing to lose if John Force isn't doing so good this year. All they care about is upholding the rules so that they maintain consistency and don't leave loopholes wide open for the future and of course keeping their bunch of champagne Charlies in fish eggs for another year. We all have those sorts at the top of governing bodies who everyone loves to think are paid money for nothing, but that's a different argument.
You keep perpetuating your isolationist, xenophobic drivel and sadly there's a few people around who actually believe you when you say that the rest of the world hates the US. The reality is that pretty clearly, its actually YOU that hates the rest of the world... just YOU and a few small minded friends who neither have the intelligence or foresight to realise that you are not in the majority. Am I attacking you because you're an American? No of course not. I am attacking you because you are being highly offensive and you know it. I haven't met anyone in Europe who hates the US. I have however met a few Americans who hate anyone different to themselves, and to be totally fair these people and their attitudes occur all over the world I am sure, but thankfully there are very few of you and it doesn't really color (see what I did there?) the view the rest of us have of your country or its people. Most of us around the world get on very well... strangely that includes people who work for the FIA even when we don't always agree that what they are doing is good for our sport.
While the rest of us get on fine and have friends all over the world including the across the USA and have nothing at all to find disagreeable, people like you will always try to create some tension because you don't understand that we can be different and still get along and support eachother or you just feel it is a way of furthering your ideals or your business for your own personal gains regardless of its effect on anyone else.
Ask yourself what NHRA would have done in the same circumstances where someone didn't conform to their current anti-doping procedures... oh yes of course, we already know!
I will finish by saying that I will continue to feel aggrieved that TJ, and Per and Karsten have ever ended up in this situation but the questions which are of any importance should be about why TJ was not aware of the rules and procedures, and whether the documentation involved in the FIA licensing correctly flagged the importance of the FIA Sporting Code rather than sensationalist accusations of institutional racism within an international organisation and a championship which at its every turn acts to the contrary.
I love the way you use the term "licensing" rather than stating the obvious about a "license".
ACCUS grants FIA international licenses as the US ASN. FIA doesn't deem the NHRA license as acceptable in any of its documentation on the subject. It deems the on-track licensing procedure, medical and other requirements as acceptable as it does with other ASN's and clubs around the world. It does not deem any rule, sporting or technical regulation maintained by any ASN or member club as acceptable. It sets out what is acceptable for its ASN's and member clubs in its Sporting Code. Technical Regulations and Procedures are defined seperately depending on the race series.
It IS necessary to obtain an FIA international license to compete internationally and an NHRA license is NOT acceptable under the FIA sporting code. In applying for the FIA international license ACCUS along with all other ASN's make it quite clear that all drivers will need to adhere to the FIA Sporting Code which is readily available for reference.
The FIA sporting code clearly represents the actions needed to be taken by a competitor who uses a banned drug for therapeutic use and is readily available to anyone who wishes to read it, not just the competitors with an FIA license who have signed up to it.
Sadly TJ and the Andersens weren't as aware of the regulations as they should have been and the only argument is who's fault that is and the reasons behind it. The outcome is that there is no question over the correct and necessary use of Dexedrine even though the FIA did not grant TJ's TUE, the question is simply and always will be about procedure, exactly as in Mike Strasburg's case. Mike was fined and served a ban for his failure in the procedure by NHRA and this was later lessened under mitigation on appeal in much the same way TJ's was. Both were cases based on procedural irregularities and both ended in a ban. Both were a sad indictment of the world we live in today where the use of performance enhancing drugs is far too common and in order to fully combat this the governing bodies must uphold not only the banned drugs lists but also the procedures for testing and reporting.
Bobby, I would guess you haven't bothered reading either the ACCUS - Information for FIA License Applicants or The FIA Sporting Code and its Appendices as that would be good, decent journalism but nobody would ever accuse you of that would they? If the FIA series is so "tin pot" and has proved itself so unworthy can I ask why you still publish a report on the FIA European Finals? So European racers and fans aren't racist and you weren't pointing your comments at them, but the FIA are? Are there any other groups you'd like to add to your caveat there about who isn't racist in Europe? I'd love to know how that works.
The FIA couldn't give a **** who wins our little championship, they are not NHRA and have nothing to lose if John Force isn't doing so good this year. All they care about is upholding the rules so that they maintain consistency and don't leave loopholes wide open for the future and of course keeping their bunch of champagne Charlies in fish eggs for another year. We all have those sorts at the top of governing bodies who everyone loves to think are paid money for nothing, but that's a different argument.
You keep perpetuating your isolationist, xenophobic drivel and sadly there's a few people around who actually believe you when you say that the rest of the world hates the US. The reality is that pretty clearly, its actually YOU that hates the rest of the world... just YOU and a few small minded friends who neither have the intelligence or foresight to realise that you are not in the majority. Am I attacking you because you're an American? No of course not. I am attacking you because you are being highly offensive and you know it. I haven't met anyone in Europe who hates the US. I have however met a few Americans who hate anyone different to themselves, and to be totally fair these people and their attitudes occur all over the world I am sure, but thankfully there are very few of you and it doesn't really color (see what I did there?) the view the rest of us have of your country or its people. Most of us around the world get on very well... strangely that includes people who work for the FIA even when we don't always agree that what they are doing is good for our sport.
While the rest of us get on fine and have friends all over the world including the across the USA and have nothing at all to find disagreeable, people like you will always try to create some tension because you don't understand that we can be different and still get along and support eachother or you just feel it is a way of furthering your ideals or your business for your own personal gains regardless of its effect on anyone else.
Ask yourself what NHRA would have done in the same circumstances where someone didn't conform to their current anti-doping procedures... oh yes of course, we already know!
I will finish by saying that I will continue to feel aggrieved that TJ, and Per and Karsten have ever ended up in this situation but the questions which are of any importance should be about why TJ was not aware of the rules and procedures, and whether the documentation involved in the FIA licensing correctly flagged the importance of the FIA Sporting Code rather than sensationalist accusations of institutional racism within an international organisation and a championship which at its every turn acts to the contrary.
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robinjackson
Nitro Member
We-e-e-e-e-e-ll now...
All I was going to say was this:
As I understand, TJ took a random test entirely in accordance with FIA rules and procedures.
Also as I understand, it is incumbent on competitors to acquaint themselves with the rules under which they compete.
If I'm wrong, correct me.
Otherwise, unless fresh factors come to light that weren't covered in TJ's appeal, I can't see there's any more to add.
All I was going to say was this:
As I understand, TJ took a random test entirely in accordance with FIA rules and procedures.
Also as I understand, it is incumbent on competitors to acquaint themselves with the rules under which they compete.
If I'm wrong, correct me.
Otherwise, unless fresh factors come to light that weren't covered in TJ's appeal, I can't see there's any more to add.
mike
Nitro Member
Ill second that.
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