What's the future of Drag Racing with this generation?

[Mooseman]

2-3000 horsepower would be an 80's era combination.

 

[James]

In point of fact delay boxes and timers have done exactly what they were designed to do: give some people half a chance. And make those classes somewhat more competitive.

But the cream still rises to the top. The people who win the national titles (and win in each division), year in and year out, are outstanding racers. They have worked hard for years, honed their craft, and could probably win with or without the tools. In fact, in reviewing the last several years of the divisions I'm familiar with, I can't find someone in the top 10 in any of the electronics categories who "couldn't hit their a** with both hands".

All the complaints about electronics end up in two places: 1) they are hard to watch, 2) they make anyone a great driver.

The first can be true, if you don't know what you're watching. The fault there lies with the NHRA and other promoters not working hard enough to explain them. If you know what you're seeing, watching two racers duel it out at 170+mph to the finish line is a blast. But in any case, the people having fun here are the racers, not the spectators. Perhaps that's an argument to not include them in the national events.

The second point is just provably false. If I can't cut a light better than a .050 all day, or my lights swing from .100 to .010 randomly, no delay box will magically cure that. They aren't psychic and can't fix that problem. Yes, they tighten up good, consistent racers -- but all that does is move the race to the other end of the track. Great stuff!

This I agree with, the best racers are at the top cause they work harder/ smarter then their competition? Take away electronics and they will adjust. From a spectator stand point and getting modern youth interested the Super Class cars don't help that cause. To get youth interested you need to knock their sox off at first impression.

 

[voice of reason]

Jr dragsters are way too expensive to attract new people. The only ones doing it are the parents that want to be racers thru their kids.

Clueless!!

 

[yoda]

William... it costs money to do this sport. Don't let yourself get fooled into thinking it doesn't. You've been posting here for a few year's now, always with the dream that you'll get involved deeper than just being a fan. I hope it works out for you, but what are you doing to get yourself on with a team down there? No one will just be calling someone out of the thin air and offer them a car to drive- and I know for a fact the scene in Oz for this sport is huge. Let's go kiddo- you gotta earn it, not just talk about it.

What city are you in? I'll be over in 2 weeks- I'll buy you a Corona...

 

[Mooseman]

I'm in New Zealand. I've spent the last couple of years looking after my sick dad who has just in the last week passed away. Apart from my day job I put my Dad first.

I've gone to plenty of races and met plenty of teams and helped where I could. I thought we were talking about young people becoming owner/drivers, not just being on a team? If we meant being on a team well in that case I take what I said back as I know plenty of young guys on teams.

 

[Toejam]

I know it's a pipe-dream, but....

A spec fuel class would work I think. Before I get my head ate off, let me say, a spec fuel class would replicate the early days (let's say it's FED's) of fuel racing, when car clubs, or a few friends in town would pool their resources to build a car. There wasn't a ton of options to choose from. Most would start with an iron block, and purchase over-the-counter at Chrysler, or GM, and piece together a car. The big performers tweaked these set-ups to best use what they had. Sure there was the few that had machine shops that could build special parts for themselves, but for the most part, you got a Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler block and went racing. In a way, the beginning was sort of a spec class because the limited resources. If you use the best ideas on how to slow down the big show cars, and some from the newstalgia cars and put them together for a spec fuel class, you would have a relatively easy entry (in fueler terms), and you would see a lot of cars I think.

Spec naked (except bellhousing back) FED chassis
Smaller tires
Single mag
Spec fuel pump
Spec iron head
Spec blower
Spec clutch
Zero electronics (not even for data collection)
Zero pneumatics
Everything is manual
Unprepared (natural) tracks (no VHT being sprayed)

Reading the track and parts becomes paramount, and adjustments to the spec parts is where performance can be had.

There's enough tuners out there that could build an almost bullet-proof fuel motor that won't eat itself up, but still give decent performance (for nitro) and the smell and sound we all love. Come up with that combo, and write out the specifications that participants can't fuss with. Include as many over-the-counter items already available. Stock performance GM/Ford/Mopar parts etc.

I know, I know, some will say it's already out there as Newstalgia (which I enjoy just fine, but it's still quite expensive). I'm talking about a true dinosaur class. No exotic stuff allowed. Iron blocks and heads. Just a class of nitro burners that could be trailered to the track on a 20' flat bed with some spare tires, a couple of heads, some clutch discs and a tool box.

Perhaps aim at 50-75K as the all-in price level? The current price for a loaded car out of Detroit.
I personally think that at least half of the crowd in the stands watches a nitro car go by and thinks "I wish I could do that".

I would even suggest a separate injected-only class which still gives you the ability to burn pop.

Participant has the blueprint on how NOT to blow-up their toy investment, and the chance to differentiate themselves on the track through clutch set-up, ability to read plugs, and reaction time. Heads-up, no break-out, but with an eye to keeping it a fun, loud, affordable class, able to run it when you've saved enough for parts and fuel.

Yup, I'm sure it's just too much for most, especially the NHRA certifications (chassis and safety equipment etc.) But what's to stop it from happening? Put some brains together to make a basic combo/tune that allows people to NOT kill an engine as a newbie, and give them piece of mind that no one could out spend them for a performance advantage, and I think it's completely do-able.

Burning nitro will never be cheap, but I think it could be designed that someone with a tag-along trailer and three friends could go as quick as a semi-trailer with twenty uniformed crew members. You choose whether you want to fly coach or first class, but it won't change the ability of the car. I think what's keeping most would-be fuel racers from actually racing is cost, then comes the fact that they are quite likely to blow their stuff up time and time-again before they finally figure it out. Take those two things out of the equation, and I'm thinking a lot of folks sitting on the fence would seriously start thinking of taking the plunge. With no track prep allowed, local tracks would be as good as super tracks, so it really wouldn't matter where the races were held.

I personally think a large group of 6 second fuelers could ignite excitement in a crowd just as much as the same 16 big show fuelers do every weekend. I use FED's as a starting point, but there's no reason why they couldn't be RED's. Just spec the wing, but allow adjustments.

The first time someone that has never seen 30+ fuelers vying for a spot on a Sunday, saw the staging lanes full of these dinosaurs snorting nitro, they would be hooked, regardless of the performance numbers.

Am I dreaming?

Isn't that what the Nostalgia Organizations are all about?

 

[clwill]

This I agree with, the best racers are at the top cause they work harder/ smarter then their competition? Take away electronics and they will adjust. From a spectator stand point and getting modern youth interested the Super Class cars don't help that cause. To get youth interested you need to knock their sox off at first impression.

I don't necessarily disagree. I've advocated elsewhere that the Super classes perhaps could be replaced at National events with more spectator friendly classes like ProMod. And this is even though we race in SC...

 

[Jimbo]

I think this discussion has kind of drifted off track from the original thoughts.

What can the NHRA do to reverse what's happening by increasing spectators, racers, sponsors, and even more vendors to events and put on a better show that will attract more fans

There is no question the economy is a large part of what's happening but interest in drag racing is down and not only at national events.

Take a look at how many performance companies are either gone or about to be gone because of a lack of sales in general.

I am not sure why this is happening right now but I even see it on many of the drag racing forums where viewer numbers are half what they used to be just a year or two ago.
Any idea's why this is happening?

Jim Hill

 

[rckymtn3]

Future of drag racing....

If in your mind, you think "what to do to get kids involved", I still think NHRA's Youth Racing program is the ticket. Unlicensed kids 13-16 can race the family car. No big money investment, no special anything, just a parent that is willing to let their kid drive from the staging lanes, down the track, then pull up to get their time slip. The parent drives everywhere else. If that kid then goes back to school, imagine the discussions, and the word of mouth advertising. It's the gold mine that's untapped if you ask me. I know the Jr Dragster folks are sensitive about their choices, but I don't see what a go-kart motored car offers differently than a full-sized car. Yeah, it "looks" more like a race car, but the experience is the same. I think a kid driving mom's Sentra has the same chance, and has learned as much about staging and racing as a kid with a purpose built Jr Dragster. Their ability to wheel a faster car is the same if you ask me. Vocation classes offers anything else needed (fabrication skills, general automotive skills etc) Both graduates will be floored by the new found speed and respect for someone's investment. If that (NHRA's Youth Racing program) isn't literally, the cheapest and easiest way to get a kid interested in doing more with drag racing, I'll eat my words.

If in your mind, you think "what gets more butts in the seats, keeps the smaller local tracks alive, and more nitro cars", I suggested a low-buck entry type of nitro class, and lets face it, what puts butts in the bleachers is nitro.

Get the kids involved, yes, by all means possible. But what good is it if in the end, you funnel them all down to a 16 car field at the top? There's tracks across the country, local to a lot of people. It's what built drag racing up in the first place. More options, more teams, more cars means a stronger future. In my mind anyway.

2-3000 horsepower would be an 80's era combination.

Perhaps, but I never considered my suggestion as a period-correct version of FED's, just a six-second class of fueler.

Isn't that what the Nostalgia Organizations are all about?

In my post I mention this. I guess you can't get folks past the FED being a nostalgia car, versus a chassis type.

 

[clwill]

Any idea's why this is happening?

The (very overused and cliched) definition of insanity says most of it:

Doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

 

[clwill]

Here's an interesting comparison:

Golf has lost 5 million players in the last decade. They have an aging fan and participant base. The sport takes too long for many younger players. The courses have immense and complex real estate requirements. Building new courses is mind-bogglingly expensive because of the huge land required and the technical details of the course itself. It's hard for proprietors of existing courses to make money one green fee at a time. Many can't resist the pressures of surrounding development and not sell out to home builders. "Kids these days" would rather spend time on their smartphones. The falling participation rates have caused problems for the companies that make golf equipment, and for TV ratings. The sport has been around for over 150 years and change is hard to make.

Any of this sound familiar?

The difference might be that they see the problem and are looking at a lot of ways to reverse that trend -- an uphill battle to be sure. They are looking at the problem from a lot of angles. One interesting one is "hack golf" (http://hackgolf.org), a site where they are attempting to "crowdsource" the future of golf. For those not familiar with the term, crowdsourcing is based on the notion that many brains are smarter than one. Create a way for people to share ideas, and to bounce ideas off each other. It's been shown that many times, if you get a lot of people brainstorming on a topic, they can feed off each other, and really good ideas and some real learning can happen.

I'm not saying that "hacknhra" is the answer, but it sure is interesting to see an organization that has recognized the problem and is openly soliciting input and trying to do some things to address it. That's step one of a twelve step program, isn't it?

 

[Jimbo]

Christopher L. Williams
Thanks for posting that information on golf. I did not know they were in the same shape as drag racing and stock cars.

It's not easy right now trying to figure out what's going right now and maybe the crowdsourcing will in some way help us all.

Jim Hill

 

[Toejam]

I have taken 6 first timers to the track, 4 of them really enjoyed themselves. But SOO many people think NHRA's prices are just too high, hear that all the time!

 

[mick]

.....SOO many people think NHRA's prices are just too high, hear that all the time!

that's too bad really, the prices are not too high for the amount of time you are hopefully entertained.
what i take from this sentiment is that folks do not perceive a day @ an nhra nat. event on the same level as
a.....pick one.....nascar race, nfl/nba/mlb/nhl game, supercross race, ncaa football/basketball games.... or
other sporting events that price their admission the same or very similar.

that being said, if a track doesn't offer a relatively well placed bleacher section for GA @ $50-$60/day price point,
then i mite agree the prices are too high. (brainerd has this problem with all seats reserved; not smart. IMO they
lost loyal customers when they cancelled their GA bleachers, customers they may never get back.

 

[yoda]

An 8-10 hour sporting event is pretty taxing on a first-timer. From in the gates at 9-10 to leaving at 6, constantly in the sun and the elements, a day of drag racing absolutely thins the heard...

 

[Jimbo]

Consumers today are being very careful how they spend their money.

There is no question drag racing is expensive and even though many may it enjoy watching it on the TV getting them to come to any local or National Event right now is difficult at best.

I heard someone on the TV make the remark that the American economy right now is in the best shape of any country in the world and I must admit that thought scared the hell out of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see racing performance companies just trying to get keep the lights turned on right now and not having to let any more people go.

To think the rest of the world is much worst off is scary stuff.

Jim Hill

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Future of drag racing....

If in your mind, you think "what to do to get kids involved", I still think NHRA's Youth Racing program is the ticket. Unlicensed kids 13-16 can race the family car. No big money investment, no special anything, just a parent that is willing to let their kid drive from the staging lanes, down the track, then pull up to get their time slip. The parent drives everywhere else. If that kid then goes back to school, imagine the discussions, and the word of mouth advertising. It's the gold mine that's untapped if you ask me. I know the Jr Dragster folks are sensitive about their choices, but I don't see what a go-kart motored car offers differently than a full-sized car. Yeah, it "looks" more like a race car, but the experience is the same. I think a kid driving mom's Sentra has the same chance, and has learned as much about staging and racing as a kid with a purpose built Jr Dragster. Their ability to wheel a faster car is the same if you ask me. Vocation classes offers anything else needed (fabrication skills, general automotive skills etc) Both graduates will be floored by the new found speed and respect for someone's investment. If that (NHRA's Youth Racing program) isn't literally, the cheapest and easiest way to get a kid interested in doing more with drag racing, I'll eat my words.

If in your mind, you think "what gets more butts in the seats, keeps the smaller local tracks alive, and more nitro cars", I suggested a low-buck entry type of nitro class, and lets face it, what puts butts in the bleachers is nitro.

Get the kids involved, yes, by all means possible. But what good is it if in the end, you funnel them all down to a 16 car field at the top? There's tracks across the country, local to a lot of people. It's what built drag racing up in the first place. More options, more teams, more cars means a stronger future. In my mind anyway.


Perhaps, but I never considered my suggestion as a period-correct version of FED's, just a six-second class of fueler.


In my post I mention this. I guess you can't get folks past the FED being a nostalgia car, versus a chassis type.

I agree drop the 16 car format. NHRA shoots themselves in the foot by restricting the pro classes to 16.

 

[cephus]

sure I will get hacked on this but people aint got the fun money, toy money they once had, the middle class is steady getting $%#ked and their wages aren't increasing with the rise of everything around them, the rich are getting richer and the working middle class is working their ass off to get by, the NHRA show aint worth shelling out the funds to see it anymore, its simple NHRA corporate is closed minded on new ideas from the fans that pay their life style cause their life is set and
wonderful as it is so why change it

 

[Toejam]

sure I will get hacked on this but people aint got the fun money, toy money they once had, the middle class is steady getting $%#ked and their wages aren't increasing with the rise of everything around them, the rich are getting richer and the working middle class is working their ass off to get by, the NHRA show aint worth shelling out the funds to see it anymore, its simple NHRA corporate is closed minded on new ideas from the fans that pay their life style cause their life is set and
wonderful as it is so why change it

Yeah lets blame the Rich who spend Millions on a sport like Drag racing! They are killing the rest of us...

 

[Nick Name]

The problem today is that drag racing became popular because it was a participant sport. NHRA decided it could be a real money maker if they turned it into a spectator sport. However, other than the fuel cars, pro mods, fuel bikes, there is really nothing happening that you should charge someone to watch.

It is all about how to get new participants rather than spectators. Again, that fake street racing TV show draws four times the audience as ESPN NHRA events and no one has a clue.

Drag racing will survive. Todays big show is doomed, but that does not mean drag racing is. If tracks owners could shake the sanction noose from their necks, they would be free to reinvent the sport on the local level.

As for saving the big show.. It needs to be a one day event, Top fuel, funny car, Pro mod, nitro bikes or PSM. Run it Chicago style. Eliminations start at 10AM, show is done at 6PM. Everyone goes home without hotel bills on top of giant admission ticket.

But if you read through this entire thread, you will see that no one really wants a solution.

And, at the track behind my shop today they are having professional drifting. You want to see a huge crowd of young people at a motorsports event? Come on up.