What's the future of Drag Racing with this generation?

[Larry jr.]

When I compare the value of going to a NASCAR race or an NHRA race I still believe hands down the NHRA wins simply because as a spectator you are allowed into the pits which I always thought was a cool idea. For the amount of money you spend on a ticket my money is better spend at an NHRA race then sitting somewhere in the stands simply watching the race.

Just my opinion. Jim Hill

The best post yet, in my opinion.......Right on!

.

 

[yoda]

When I compare the value of going to a NASCAR race or an NHRA race I still believe hands down the NHRA wins simply because as a spectator you are allowed into the pits which I always thought was a cool idea. For the amount of money you spend on a ticket my money is better spend at an NHRA race then sitting somewhere in the stands simply watching the race.

Just my opinion. Jim Hill

I really used to believe that; I saw that as a huge benifit. I loved drag racing for that same reason.

Now- going to the pits at a national event has lost its allure. For those of you that know me personally, you know I've been going to the drags for about 45 years. For me to go into the pits during an event now is because I'm going to visit friends with their cars. I am absolutely over the alley-like view where you may see a bit of the rear of the car, the "I'm special" flaunting of the VIP zones (where mostly everyone looks bored, or like they are fish in a bowl), the caverns that are created with the huge awnings- which makes it almost impossible to watch a warm-up without being completely choked out by the excessive concentration of fumes (remember, in the past, the fumes wafted up and dispersed into the air. Now- you're literally at one end of a gas chamber. Not so much fun anymore).

Sure, the drivers are personable, but no more than NASCARs drivers or the riders in stadium MX, or in most racing environments just short of F1. Drag racing lost that charm once the ropes went up and the walls were created by the lineup of 53 foot haulers.

Our top 2 classes now spend more time making last minute adjustments than the spend competing on the track. Weak burnouts, too much time spent fiddlin and diddlin, not enough time racing, and the technology of the day takes away the part of the "performance" that hooked most on the sport in the first place... No more snortin and buckin- it's like watching someone prepare for surgery.

And just like that- it's done.

Meanwhile, NASCAR comes by you, almost constantly. Your favorite, if they are still in it, makes their apprearance in the "performance" every 30-75 seconds- not every 75 minutes, if you're lucky and nobody caused a delay.

At this point, the rewards that drag racing used to provide over any other Motorsport seem to pale as other Motorsports learned what made us so successful in our heyday...make the drivers accessible, keep the action wild & unpredictable, keep the energy up and constant.

My love for the drags is now based on the engineering that takes place at 2AM in my garage; that feeing when we tow our piece through the gate; that moment when the tree flashes. But not everyone is on our side of the fence. I can only hope the folks on that side are not feeling- even in the smallest way- the way I feel when I am not a participant.

 

[Muddy]

This generation enjoys drag racing but not being a spectator. There's plenty of racers at the grudge and test and tune local races.

The guy down the street no longer has a fuel whatever he takes to the local track, so there's not much local interest in being a spectator. If they don't go to local races to build interest they won't travel to watch races. Local tracts are going to have to go back to having "events" and they have to promote the heck out of them.

You build local interest and then you might get crowds back to national events. We also need to reduce the number of national events. Parhaps to as few as 8 to 12.

Drag racing will survive just not in the format we reconize.

 

[yoda]

So- anyone see this as a good first step?

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag...e-jr-dragster-challenge-at-the-nhra-4wide-nat

 

[Nick Name]

Jr dragsters are way too expensive to attract new people. The only ones doing it are the parents that want to be racers thru their kids.

 

[FABMAN]

I have 3 grandchildren that would love to start in Jr Dragster series but for them to have half a chance of maybe going rounds it would require a approximate 30,000 dollar investment. That's a major investment to learn about Drag Racing and how to be competitive in life and the value of sportsmanship.

 

[Toejam]

When I compare the value of going to a NASCAR race or an NHRA race I still believe hands down the NHRA wins simply because as a spectator you are allowed into the pits which I always thought was a cool idea. For the amount of money you spend on a ticket my money is better spend at an NHRA race then sitting somewhere in the stands simply watching the race.

Just my opinion. Jim Hill

Agreed, I admit I have only been to 4 NASCAR races, but the first thing I noticed at my first cup race was Everyone was Standing for the start of the race and maybe the first 10 laps....then the Grandstands were nothing but Grand central station till the last 15-20 laps of the race! There were just as many people on the Concourse as in the stands. At the Drags, Im in my own world, no Bosses to listen to, worrys are minimal. Couldn't tell you how many Crew guys have asked me why I don't work on a crew for as much as I go. Being stuck in one Pit for 10-12 hours a day isn't my idea of Fun! Just my opinion....

 

[Nitrohelper]

........ the walls were created by the lineup of 53 foot haulers......

At the IHRA event at Tucson this past weekend the Pro teams were parked in a "one & a half"
pit space layout ... This permitted the fans to stand along side of the entire pit space for every team to watch the work on the cars, at times we had 25 to 30 fans watching the between round action. This extra space made it much easier to get autographs and interact with the crew members...

 

[rckymtn3]

Jr dragsters are way too expensive to attract new people. The only ones doing it are the parents that want to be racers thru their kids.

I never quite understood the Jr Dragster deal. To me, it was more about make-believe, than actually getting the average kid into racing. Personally, I saw no need to get a child "into" racing. On the other hand, the NHRA Youth Racing program is a totally great idea! 13-16 yr olds can race stock street cars! All they need is an understanding parent with an insured stock full-bodied car that will drive it everywhere but from the staging lanes to the time slip shack. That's on the kid. Brilliant idea.

 

[rckymtn3]

I know it's a pipe-dream, but....

A spec fuel class would work I think. Before I get my head ate off, let me say, a spec fuel class would replicate the early days (let's say it's FED's) of fuel racing, when car clubs, or a few friends in town would pool their resources to build a car. There wasn't a ton of options to choose from. Most would start with an iron block, and purchase over-the-counter at Chrysler, or GM, and piece together a car. The big performers tweaked these set-ups to best use what they had. Sure there was the few that had machine shops that could build special parts for themselves, but for the most part, you got a Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler block and went racing. In a way, the beginning was sort of a spec class because the limited resources. If you use the best ideas on how to slow down the big show cars, and some from the newstalgia cars and put them together for a spec fuel class, you would have a relatively easy entry (in fueler terms), and you would see a lot of cars I think.

Spec naked (except bellhousing back) FED chassis
Smaller tires
Single mag
Spec fuel pump
Spec iron head
Spec blower
Spec clutch
Zero electronics (not even for data collection)
Zero pneumatics
Everything is manual
Unprepared (natural) tracks (no VHT being sprayed)

Reading the track and parts becomes paramount, and adjustments to the spec parts is where performance can be had.

There's enough tuners out there that could build an almost bullet-proof fuel motor that won't eat itself up, but still give decent performance (for nitro) and the smell and sound we all love. Come up with that combo, and write out the specifications that participants can't fuss with. Include as many over-the-counter items already available. Stock performance GM/Ford/Mopar parts etc.

I know, I know, some will say it's already out there as Newstalgia (which I enjoy just fine, but it's still quite expensive). I'm talking about a true dinosaur class. No exotic stuff allowed. Iron blocks and heads. Just a class of nitro burners that could be trailered to the track on a 20' flat bed with some spare tires, a couple of heads, some clutch discs and a tool box.

Perhaps aim at 50-75K as the all-in price level? The current price for a loaded car out of Detroit.
I personally think that at least half of the crowd in the stands watches a nitro car go by and thinks "I wish I could do that".

I would even suggest a separate injected-only class which still gives you the ability to burn pop.

Participant has the blueprint on how NOT to blow-up their toy investment, and the chance to differentiate themselves on the track through clutch set-up, ability to read plugs, and reaction time. Heads-up, no break-out, but with an eye to keeping it a fun, loud, affordable class, able to run it when you've saved enough for parts and fuel.

Yup, I'm sure it's just too much for most, especially the NHRA certifications (chassis and safety equipment etc.) But what's to stop it from happening? Put some brains together to make a basic combo/tune that allows people to NOT kill an engine as a newbie, and give them piece of mind that no one could out spend them for a performance advantage, and I think it's completely do-able.

Burning nitro will never be cheap, but I think it could be designed that someone with a tag-along trailer and three friends could go as quick as a semi-trailer with twenty uniformed crew members. You choose whether you want to fly coach or first class, but it won't change the ability of the car. I think what's keeping most would-be fuel racers from actually racing is cost, then comes the fact that they are quite likely to blow their stuff up time and time-again before they finally figure it out. Take those two things out of the equation, and I'm thinking a lot of folks sitting on the fence would seriously start thinking of taking the plunge. With no track prep allowed, local tracks would be as good as super tracks, so it really wouldn't matter where the races were held.

I personally think a large group of 6 second fuelers could ignite excitement in a crowd just as much as the same 16 big show fuelers do every weekend. I use FED's as a starting point, but there's no reason why they couldn't be RED's. Just spec the wing, but allow adjustments.

The first time someone that has never seen 30+ fuelers vying for a spot on a Sunday, saw the staging lanes full of these dinosaurs snorting nitro, they would be hooked, regardless of the performance numbers.

Am I dreaming?

 

[Jimbo]

Kevin Knauer I think you have some very good idea's on how to make the racing better and more affordable at the same time.

I would love to see the drivers really have to drive the cars and not use electronics for everything from staging to shifting!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also like the way the IHRA is parking all the semi's so that the spectator can see everything going better. It's called give the spectators a better show for their money!!!!

Just my opinion. Jim Hill

 

[Muddy]

Kevin Knauer, I really like your ideas but I think you've really underestimated the cost. A friend of mine is building a cackle car (not for racing) and he thinks he will have close to 40K just in the motor and bellhousing. Cast iron early Chrysler hemi blocks are somewhat rare and seem to be priced by the ounce. Add machine work, a forged crank, aluminum rods/pistons, blower, injectors..well you get the idea. Parts capable of withstanding nitro never came over the counter from your local dealership. Even stock hemi cranks in 1964 had to be reworked and usually were hard chromed to withstand the stress. Roller lifters and valve springs are also prices by the oz. The same would be true for todays Chrysler hemi blocks and parts except the blocks are easier to find but would still need some major work to be able to support a nitro load. Still your idea is not without merit just more expensive when first starting out than it seems.

 

[mw6789]

One poster posted this comment "The only thing these kids care about is their I-phones or smart phones or whatever they're called. Take this away from them and they're lost"

In a sense you are partially right!!! Growing up many of us never had all these modern computer toys to play with but today's kids do!!!

I read a very good article written by a track promoter on why it is so hard to get fans and spectators to come out to local tracks. When he was interviewed for the story they were doing the interview in a restaurant and in walked a mom and dad along with three teenagers and the track promoter told the person doing the interview to look at the family for a moment and just observe what he saw them doing.

The three teenagers were all looking at either their smart phones or their I-Pads. Once they ordered their food even the mother and father were checking their phone for text messages. Not much talking going because everyone is busy with their gadgets!!!!!!!!!

The track promoter told the person doing the interview that is what we are up against in today world of racing and years ago we had none of those distractions to deal with and people looked forward to the weekend and either watching local drag racing or circle track racing.

It's just my opinion but electronics and other computer related gadgets have really hurt drag racing and taken away the raw talent needed to drive many of the different classes of cars.

I think it would be more interesting to follow the lead of many groups around the country and go back to the way the cars were run years ago without most of the electronics controlling the car.

Jim Hill

I have a good longtime friend who is a nationally known bracket racer and dragster builder who told me several years ago that he wished the electronics had never come into drag racing. He is a natural driver and was winning races long before the electronics came along. He says all it did was make drivers out of guys who couldnt hit their a** with both hands. He says it naturally helped everybody, but helped the bad drivers much more. But once Pandora's box is opened......well you know the rest of the story.

 

[none]

to impliment the top fuel class to be anything like you say will be the death kneel of drag racing. If you think many would go see that show your dreaming. I watched the fuelers you describe racing in the 50s and 60s. sorry but been there done that.
Give me 3s and low 4s at 320 thank you.

 

[mw6789]

Well I taught My kid how to tig weld at age 6 so when He broke the frame of His Gary Turned built BMX racer He knew how to fix it, before He learned to ride dirt bikes He learnd how to tune a carb and service it. Then I taught Him how to build a 838 stroker SBC for our Camaro and swap the 5 speed for a TSI TH 350 with a brake and 3,500 stall converter and 4:56 rear end then a 526 fuel motor and how to start it and put a base line tune in it .
At Age 14 we had him crewing on Roomans NTF at Bakersfield, at 17 His first summer job (last summer) working at my vette restoration shop doing the chassis on a 57 Fuelie Vette that we sold for six figures when it was done.

For the past year and a half the kid has been doing the circut with the Mandellas' and I with the Shiley Muldowney top fuel car, and will be 18 in a few weeks.

All that AND He's a defensive lineman ready to graduate highschool heading to collage to play ball.

Key words here Larry "I taught my kid". Probably taught him a good work ethic while you were at it I would bet. I love my son dearly even though he never got the gearhead bug (he was also a football player, and as you know you dont get good at any sport with a poor work ethic). He did get my work ethic and has been very successful in business. Too often that work ethic doesnt seem to get passed on to the next generation. My son will tell you the best thing that ever happened to him was being made to work at the old man's shop---away from his momma.

 

[clwill]

This generation enjoys drag racing but not being a spectator. There's plenty of racers at the grudge and test and tune local races.

Exactly how the whole thing started 60+ years ago.

 

[yoda]

Jr dragsters are way too expensive to attract new people. The only ones doing it are the parents that want to be racers thru their kids.

Ouch....

Before Emmett WANTED to race juniors, I raced on occasion when my budget and calendar allowed. After we started doing the junior TOGETHER, I found that it was giving me the opportunity to be a more involved parent with my kid's life. After his little brother (who had no interest in driving) found he had a knack for the mechanical side of the sport, I was the happiest parent in the world- both of my kids and I had a common activity that we could participate in, allowing for time together, learning how things worked and some great travel time.

Now that Emmett ages out this year, we are putting together the next phase- a FED car that we will split driving duties between us (until my fat ass doesn't fit anymore- LOL), while Avery, taking the skills he learned in working on the junior, will be in as car chief.

In the 10 years we have been in junior racing, we have formulated a talented, hard-working team that has built, competed and won. We are not unusual. There are lots of junior teams out here just like us. Lots.
People continuously rave about the former junior drivers that are now coming into the spotlight; the next generation of drag racing teams are about to make their debut, and in the spirit of Alan, Blaine and the Johnson clan, drag racing will have dozens of phenomenally talented drivers, crews and support teams (working on things like bringing new sponsors on-board, promotional events, media skills) to the table. This year alone in D7, there have been more kids than I have ever seen that jumped into NTF, SC, TD and door cars. And there was almost no learning curve; they are already good at it. And their crews, backed by their parents, are good at it as well. Making real drag cars go fast consistently is what the junior program allowed us to learn how to do.

Maybe it looks like a bunch of wannabes to you, Jay, but we know the reality of why we are out here. And its not because Dad wished he could race, or because we wanted to see how fast Mom's minivan would go; a majority of the kids that stick with the Junior Drag Racing series want to be the next generation to hoist a Wally. And in 10 years, bet there will be more of us doing it than anyone else on the grounds.

 

[clwill]

I have a good longtime friend who is a nationally known bracket racer and dragster builder who told me several years ago that he wished the electronics had never come into drag racing. He is a natural driver and was winning races long before the electronics came along. He says all it did was make drivers out of guys who couldnt hit their a** with both hands. He says it naturally helped everybody, but helped the bad drivers much more. But once Pandora's box is opened......well you know the rest of the story.

In point of fact delay boxes and timers have done exactly what they were designed to do: give some people half a chance. And make those classes somewhat more competitive.

But the cream still rises to the top. The people who win the national titles (and win in each division), year in and year out, are outstanding racers. They have worked hard for years, honed their craft, and could probably win with or without the tools. In fact, in reviewing the last several years of the divisions I'm familiar with, I can't find someone in the top 10 in any of the electronics categories who "couldn't hit their a** with both hands".

All the complaints about electronics end up in two places: 1) they are hard to watch, 2) they make anyone a great driver.

The first can be true, if you don't know what you're watching. The fault there lies with the NHRA and other promoters not working hard enough to explain them. If you know what you're seeing, watching two racers duel it out at 170+mph to the finish line is a blast. But in any case, the people having fun here are the racers, not the spectators. Perhaps that's an argument to not include them in the national events.

The second point is just provably false. If I can't cut a light better than a .050 all day, or my lights swing from .100 to .010 randomly, no delay box will magically cure that. They aren't psychic and can't fix that problem. Yes, they tighten up good, consistent racers -- but all that does is move the race to the other end of the track. Great stuff!

 

[Mooseman]

Kids who race with their parents are the wrong people to be looking at. They are already racing and already have parental financial support to help them. It's the wide eyed kid in the stand or at home watching racing on the tv who has big dreams and wants to race but who's parents just don't have the finances. Those are the kids we need to give a chance to.

 

[rckymtn3]

Kevin Knauer, I really like your ideas but I think you've really underestimated the cost. A friend of mine is building a cackle car (not for racing) and he thinks he will have close to 40K just in the motor and bellhousing. Cast iron early Chrysler hemi blocks are somewhat rare and seem to be priced by the ounce. Add machine work, a forged crank, aluminum rods/pistons, blower, injectors..well you get the idea. Parts capable of withstanding nitro never came over the counter from your local dealership. Even stock hemi cranks in 1964 had to be reworked and usually were hard chromed to withstand the stress. Roller lifters and valve springs are also prices by the oz. The same would be true for todays Chrysler hemi blocks and parts except the blocks are easier to find but would still need some major work to be able to support a nitro load. Still your idea is not without merit just more expensive when first starting out than it seems.

The cackle cars use period-correct parts, and the folks that have hoarded them know what they have, and don't let go of them for cheap.
Oh, I'm sure I've underestimated the cost, but not by much. The price of fielding a nitro car has always come in the attrition of parts. Sure it's going to cost money to run them, but the initial cost would be substantially lower than other avenues, and within reach of the folks I think would jump at the chance. If a modern car is in the 10K HP range, I think a 2-3,000 HP nitro car would be much easier on parts, yet still make them cackle and scream. Just my thoughts.

to impliment the top fuel class to be anything like you say will be the death kneel of drag racing. If you think many would go see that show your dreaming. I watched the fuelers you describe racing in the 50s and 60s. sorry but been there done that.
Give me 3s and low 4s at 320 thank you.

To think, I almost killed drag racing by adding more fuelers to local tracks.

I'm glad I am still excited over six second cars. I'm glad me, and many others had the chance to see the original FED's do their thing.