machine the axle hubs and the wheel hubs so they interlock, the studs then do the clamping and not the driving.
what he said
Nitromater
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Tethers being tested
- Thread starter The Counterfeiter
- Start date
what he said
It may work for a longer period of time, but can you tell me how many teams if any, if ever, change out studs for purposes of averting failures ? I believe that most teams only changed studs if the threads became damaged. We racers are always guessing at the life of Aluminum rods, Ti valves, etc. How about wheel studs, wheels themselves, what might be the throwaway criteria ?
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OK, let me stop the bull**** right now...the lugnuts WERE torqued and a Torquewrench WAS used....not a Snap On, but a Matco, Those studs break, and they break for a particular reason, and it has to do with corrosion at the first thread exposed. Has happened before, will happen again unless replaced on a regular service interval basis, or until the design is changed.
Please DO NOT make it sound so F'n simple that somebody didnt torque the wheels. Thats not the case....
Please DO NOT make it sound so F'n simple that somebody didnt torque the wheels. Thats not the case....
Bross Hawg
Nitro Member
When I was building the Strange rear ends on Medlens car, I changed the studs at LEAST once a year (beginning of season). We had 3 rears that we cycled. Ring and pinion were replaced every 30 runs, and studs were inspected every Sat. nite before raceday. We never had any break...
Isn't that what Steve Pluegar stated RG???
Mr. Fix It
Nitro Member
If things were made where a wheel coming off would be "impossible", wouldn't that just make the next thing in line break? Say the hub or rear end mounting? That photo of a Top Fuel wheel looks mighty heavy.
BaldyLochs
Nitro Member
As far as testing, is it merely at this point looking at options as to what works with the cars under normal operation? How in the world would you truly test a situation like what happened? Would there be controlled-failures at some point? I would think it's kind of like testing a parachute?? You know it jettisons and falls on the ground when standing still.... but you don't know if it will blossom and stay attached to the car at 300 mph until you actually do it. I guess that's why I'm not an Engineer. I'm confident they'll come up with a solution to this.
Randy
Nitro Member
I haven't talked to Steve in a while. If that is what he is saying, I'd listen to him.
RG
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Eracer
Nitro Member
Sorry, Randy but, adding more rotating weight, weaking the wheel center does not sound like the best option.
Eracer
Nitro Member
Let me preferance this by saying...I don't claim to have "THE ANSWER" but some general thoughts on this subject:
Was the torque wrench properly calibrated and set to zero after each use?
Remember a torque wrench can and at times be used incorrectly.
I have never seen torque sticks used in the pits. An over torqued condition can "fitique" the threads.
I did some research for a Nascar team using a Skidmoore. A Skidmoore is device which can measure clamping force. My research showed that a clean and lubicated stud and nut can increase clamping force by 80 percent. The natural oil from your skin can increase clamping force by 20 percent verses and non-lubricated stud.
Fastener and Screw / Bolt Design, Formula and Calculation - Engineers Edge
How would adding bolts to it in a larger circle weaken the wheel center? I would think the wheel would be stronger.
The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
I suppose adding additional hole(s) for more studs could theoretically weaken the wheel - I certainly don't know. However, if true, this just illustrates how complicated this issue is. I don't think you can remove material from existing wheels and hubs to create an interlocking system. If this is going to work, all existing wheels and hubs will have to be redesigned and replaced (also applies to a larger bolt circle and/or more studs). As Randy said, very "spendy".
Started this thread because I think it's good that people are working on an issue we all agree needs to be solved. Tethers or restraints could certainly make things worse for the driver - a wheel and tire thrashing around in a funny car body next to the driver is a frightening thought. Is this risk worth it to protect spectators? I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
I hope teams will be much more diligent in drive line maintenance and mounting until a solution is found . . . the sport doesn't need another disaster. JMHO
Randy
Nitro Member
Of all the things I've seen flying through the air, rear wheels with tires (Eddie Hill, Dixon, etc) are about the worst. It's unbeleivable to me that this was the first pit tragedy.
To answer an earlier post... if increasing the bolt spacing (diameter) and adding a stud or two will weaken the assembly why aren't all the 80,000# GVW 18 wheeler's running a 5X5.5" pattern?
Simple stuff.
RG
Eracer
Nitro Member
"Simple stuff" for who?
"why aren't all the 80,000# GVW 18 wheeler's running a 5X5.5" pattern?" The "Simple" answer is they are not as concerned with weight.
Eracer
Nitro Member
Thanks Jim, Yes weakening the wheel is not the answer.
Eracer
Nitro Member
I just got this e-mail from a friend of mine and wanted to pass this along.
"My engineer colleague stated that their research showed an increase in the tensile stress in the bolt by a factor of more than FIVE as a result of lubricating the threads with light oil compared to clean dry threads, using the same tightening torque in both cases. Of course, any given case will be different, depending on the lubricant used, the thread pitch, and so on."
"My engineer colleague stated that their research showed an increase in the tensile stress in the bolt by a factor of more than FIVE as a result of lubricating the threads with light oil compared to clean dry threads, using the same tightening torque in both cases. Of course, any given case will be different, depending on the lubricant used, the thread pitch, and so on."
Super Mod
Nitro Member
Is this about engineering or about public perception?.........
ya know, let's "over engineer" this so they think we REALLY did something
