Schumacher ignores shut-off order (1 Viewer)

[Bob]

I don't have a rule book handy, but, does it say anything, anywhere in the rule book that you will be deducted points for not following the chief starters commands?? I think this was a first and the organization dealt with it as they saw fit. Will there be a provision in next years rule book about disobeying the starting line crew or any of the other "officials" during the course of an event?? I think the answer to that is a big YES. The fine imposed seemed to be in line with what those toilet bowl racers get every once in awhile. And answer this for me.....When was the last time a cup racer was deducted points for taking an extra lap or two after being black flagged?? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. A fine....yes. Point deduction....I doubt it. Just my .02!

Late......................Mitch

It's all covered in section 19. When you join NHRA you agree to abide by all rules, regulations and agreements. That includes taking and following the directions from personnel. For an infraction they can impose a monetary fine, deduct points, ban you from the event or ban you for life.

They do not need to create a new rule. It's already there.

As for your cup racer, when he's black flagged he has to pit and they can force him to sit there for X number of laps. What the NHRA fined Tony was lunch money.

Also it is the drivers responsibility to shut it down, not the crew chief.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

What does that box do?

I'm going to ask this question again, because I didn't get an answer!
Does that box in Rick's hand enable him to DQ a car by throwing a red on the tree while allowing the other car to stage? If not, why not? Jeff Foster - are ya out there? We need a clarification!

 

[Thrill]

no spin zone...

let's pull all the spin out of this...

this is drag racing. from jr dragsters to street and strip to brackets on up all the way to yes, top fuel, when the starter says shut off, you shut off. tony needs to learn a lesson in chain of command. yes he answers to aj, but ultimately the starter is the head guy in charge, so he supercedes aj. you can spin it any way you want, he should have shut off.

let's call a spade a spade. if will hanna, nobody tafc driver blows rick stewart off the next time he tells me to shut off, it won't be a 20k fine, rather you got 20 minutes to get the hell off the property and don't bother coming back.

it just stinks.

 

[Shan]

We've seen Rick shut down lots of cars in exactly the manner you describe above yet we've also seen him allow Nitro-class runs where a crew member stops a leak with a shop rag so it would seem that it is indeed up to Rick and if he'd really wanted to stop the run, he would've stopped it.

I didn't see the replay on NHRA2day or see any slo-mo action. But I was told that that is exactly what happened, that at the last minute A.J. stuffed a rag down into the place where the oil was leaking, then Stewart shrugged his shoulders and activated the tree. Can anyone speak to that? I'll be watching this Sunday as I'm sure it will be analyzed like no other.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

If this is OK to ignore the official in charge, would Alan Johnson also be able to sign Tony's next physical? Issue his competition license renewal? Do his own top-end fuel check? Inspect and tech the car? Where does it all end? Who's really in charge?

I'm actually not trying to be cynical only trying to prove a point. Either the sanctioning body is fully in charge or they are not in certain special cases?

 

[.]

I didn't see the replay on NHRA2day or see any slo-mo action. But I was told that that is exactly what happened, that at the last minute A.J. stuffed a rag down into the place where the oil was leaking, then Stewart shrugged his shoulders and activated the tree. Can anyone speak to that? I'll be watching this Sunday as I'm sure it will be analyzed like no other.

That's what my eyes saw too. If Rick wanted Alan to shut off Tony's car he sure did a piss-poor job of making it known to Alan. Every time I've seen Stewart shut off a fuel car he's made it obvious to the crew chief, that didn't happen this time. Stewart knew Tony was staged and he just stood there looking at the tree with the switch in his hand.

Can somebody tell us what all is involved with shutting off one of those engines. Is it as simple as closing the fuel levers or is there more involved to it?

 

[.]

That's what my eyes saw too. If Rick wanted Alan to shut off Tony's car he sure did a piss-poor job of making it known to Alan. Every time I've seen Stewart shut off a fuel car he's made it obvious to the crew chief, that didn't happen this time. Stewart knew Tony was staged and he just stood there looking at the tree with the switch in his hand.

Can somebody tell us what all is involved with shutting off one of those engines. Is it as simple as closing the fuel levers or is there more involved to it?

First, I must say I don’t own, drive or work on a nitro car so I cant honestly answer your question about the shut off procedure. However, All this talk about “A.J.” not shutting the car off shouldn’t even be an issue. A.J. doesn’t shut the car off, Tony does, he’s the driver! Tony is the only person that has the controls within reach and he admitted he saw Rick give him the shut off signal and ignored it. A.J. doesn’t have the authority to override Rick’s orders even if he could physically shut the car off. (which he probably could reach into the car and shut it off)

As someone already posted on here….. It’s in the rule book!

 

[.]

First, I must say I don’t own, drive or work on a nitro car so I cant honestly answer your question about the shut off procedure. However, All this talk about “A.J.” not shutting the car off shouldn’t even be an issue. A.J. doesn’t shut the car off, Tony does, he’s the driver!

That's why I'm asking about the shutoff procedure and what all is involved. It just might be a crew-chief deal because of safety procedures. You can't just leave an engine sitting there with a bunch of nitro in the cylinders, it's a bomb waiting to go that way.

 

[FalconRacer]

I'm going to ask this question again, because I didn't get an answer!
Does that box in Rick's hand enable him to DQ a car by throwing a red on the tree while allowing the other car to stage? If not, why not? Jeff Foster - are ya out there? We need a clarification!

I know here at our local track of Tulsa Raceway Park there isn't an option of giving a redlight to only one lane. If there is something on the track the starter can flip a switch causing the reds to flash.. Hope this helps you

 

[Doug in the woods]

Its possiable that Rick saw AJ fix the leak

then went ahead and let Tony stage?
Like it was mentioned before and it has happened before, a car develops a slight leak, a crew member tighens up or stuffs a rag (I believe the Ace did this at a recent event to stop a fuel leak) then Rick gives ok to stage.
I feel the crew chief should have last word on shutting the monster off.
Rick or who ever (the starter) must convey to the crew chief his desires to shut it down. Waving ones hands is a signal but the driver has a mindset to run and may not reconize the signal due to the drivers mental mind set. SURE Tony saw Stewart but t's similar to daydreaming. We have all done that while stoped at a stop light.
I say change the rule that the started conveys his intentions to shut it down to the crew chief. Crew chief has last say.
Rick is no nitro mechanic or high performance mechanic.

 

[Ronny Robinson]

then went ahead and let Tony stage?
Like it was mentioned before and it has happened before, a car develops a slight leak, a crew member tighens up or stuffs a rag (I believe the Ace did this at a recent event to stop a fuel leak) then Rick gives ok to stage.
I feel the crew chief should have last word on shutting the monster off.
Rick or who ever (the starter) must convey to the crew chief his desires to shut it down. Waving ones hands is a signal but the driver has a mindset to run and may not reconize the signal due to the drivers mental mind set. SURE Tony saw Stewart but t's similar to daydreaming. We have all done that while stoped at a stop light.
I say change the rule that the started conveys his intentions to shut it down to the crew chief. Crew chief has last say.
Rick is no nitro mechanic or high performance mechanic.

You might want to check into Rick's nitro history...............my guess is Rick got a communication from the Light up above to let him run, if you'll notice in video, Rick appears to be well behind his normal position for starting, could've been thinking,"No telling which direction this suckers going, so I'm going to be behind it".............

 

[None]

If the crew chief has the final say so, EVERYTHING will be sent down the track.

I don't understand why Herbert and Millican were shutdown because in Stewart's opinion they "might" have burnt off too much fuel and might wheelstand and might lean out and blow up and might... ect. ect.ect.

Yet it's safe to send a certified leaker down the track.

IMO. Will Hanna is 100% correct on this.

Doc is right too. What if there had been a big two car crash?

 

[Bob]

then went ahead and let Tony stage?
Like it was mentioned before and it has happened before, a car develops a slight leak, a crew member tighens up or stuffs a rag (I believe the Ace did this at a recent event to stop a fuel leak) then Rick gives ok to stage.
I feel the crew chief should have last word on shutting the monster off.
Rick or who ever (the starter) must convey to the crew chief his desires to shut it down. Waving ones hands is a signal but the driver has a mindset to run and may not reconize the signal due to the drivers mental mind set. SURE Tony saw Stewart but t's similar to daydreaming. We have all done that while stoped at a stop light.
I say change the rule that the started conveys his intentions to shut it down to the crew chief. Crew chief has last say.
Rick is no nitro mechanic or high performance mechanic.

You are dead wrong on this one Doug. Tony said he saw the command to shut down. It is the drivers responsibility, not the crew chief. The rule does not need changing. It's plain and simple.

 

[Bob]

You might want to check into Rick's nitro history...............my guess is Rick got a communication from the Light up above to let him run, if you'll notice in video, Rick appears to be well behind his normal position for starting, could've been thinking,"No telling which direction this suckers going, so I'm going to be behind it".............

I also wondered about that Ronny. Woukd have messed up the grand finalie big time. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that's what happened.

 

[Bullet]

I'm going to ask this question again, because I didn't get an answer!
Does that box in Rick's hand enable him to DQ a car by throwing a red on the tree while allowing the other car to stage? If not, why not? Jeff Foster - are ya out there? We need a clarification!

No it does not. The only time the starter can red light someone is if the other car is fully staged.

 

[Rajunz]

If anyone should be fined then perhaps Stewart for non-communication skills.
Come people LOOK AT THE video in slow motion. Stewart acted like a confussed idiot......................

The man speaks the truth.

This sums it all up perfectly....................

Here is my take.....

-Tony disobeyed Rick Stewart's orders, more than once. I saw Rick signal him more than once.

-Rick Stewart seemed to clear it with the other NHRA guy on the line before Tony went into stage.

-$20,000 is a more than adequate penalty. However I feel there should also be a probation period for the team.

-Points deduction was not suitable as if he had of benefited from the run I would hope the NHRA would have disallowed the run.

-GENERAL OBSERVATION - Rick Stewart's antics in general are embarrassing

 

[.]

That's why I'm asking about the shutoff procedure and what all is involved. It just might be a crew-chief deal because of safety procedures. You can't just leave an engine sitting there with a bunch of nitro in the cylinders, it's a bomb waiting to go that way.

I know what your trying to say but look at it this way….. Drivers safely shut these cars off all the time. Think about all the cars that have done burnouts, backed up then ordered to shut off due to a passing drizzle of rain (for example) And, not to mention, a driver shuts the car off after every pass!! Nitro in the cylinders isn’t a bomb until they try to re-start the engine. That’s why you see the guys with the long ratchets attached to the blower drive to “back the engine down” by hand. (with the magneto grounded so the plugs don’t fire) These guys are pro’s and every car is safely shut-offable (if that’s even a word) at the starting line. It only gets dangerous when trying to restart the engine.

This is a dead horse now. Team Schumacher did what they did and the NHRA reacted the way they felt necessary. What more is there to say?

 

[yoda]

OK, we're here now...

Decision has been made, fines will be paid; AJ, Tony AND Rick were in the wrong... Time to get over it and start talkin about driver/crewchief swaps!!

 

[draggin3]

GENERAL OBSERVATION - Rick Stewart's antics in general are embarrassing

I could not agree more.

 

[NHRADeuce]

I'm going to ask this question again, because I didn't get an answer!
Does that box in Rick's hand enable him to DQ a car by throwing a red on the tree while allowing the other car to stage? If not, why not? Jeff Foster - are ya out there? We need a clarification!

I asked a guy who is pretty familiar with staging procedures at national events, and he said that Stewart couldn't red light Shoe because Kalitta was not staged. Had he thrown the red, both runs would have been scraped.