Photo Radar - your opinion?

[The Counterfeiter]

This has been going on for a long time here in Arizona, but it has gone to a whole new level. There are now literally hundreds of fixed speed and red light units and the Department of Public Safety deployed mobile units every twenty miles on I-10 and I-40 Thanksgiving weekend. DPS claims there were only two crashes on these highways during the weekend.
A segment of the public is up in arms over this, claiming it is nothing but a revenue generator - 40,000 tickets at $165 plus a $20 processing fee have been issued since September. DPS is claiming it is reducing excessive speeding and accidents.
So . . . does a state or local government have the right to do this?
My opinion? Speeding is illegal - if you don't want a ticket, don't exceed the speed limit! Let the battle begin! -

 

[Butch]

Jim: In the news the fines were referred to as a Windfall, and if all tickets are collected the total was something like $6.6 Million in two months. To me that is nothing but a cash cow. As soon as everyone knows the location of the Photo Radar units the out of town drivers will be getting the tickets. Remember in Scottsdale ( the start of all this mess) everyone would haul ass then hit the brakes roll through the Photo area then then hit the foot feed and peel rubber? The DPS was pumping there chest saying see how we slowed down traffic. I say BS.This whole Photo Radar thing is nothing but CA$H revenue and not a darn thing about safety. You don't even get points on your record just send in your $$.

 

[clwill]

So I'm in business in Darmstadt, Germany about five years ago, and we're late for a meeting. We're flying between lights, trying to make up time. Suddenly there's a flash from the side of the road -- from just above a sign in German with a camera on it. Poop... But I'm driving a rental halfway around the world. Who cares?

Until about two months later comes a letter from Hertz, inside is an additional charge to my card -- for that speeding ticket. Cheap, really, only about $80.

I think they're fine. In fact I'd rather get the ticket that way than have to deal with Barney Fife and his whole "gotcha" act for fifteen minutes...

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

I understand you have to be positively identified to be charged with the ticket?

I wear an Obama mask when driving. I get no tickets but I've been shot at a lot lately?

 

[Outlaw Eric]

I think they're fine. In fact I'd rather get the ticket that way than have to deal with Barney Fife and his whole "gotcha" act for fifteen minutes...

What's that you say? Speeding, huh!

you vicious outlaw~!

EDB

PS Do those license plate deals work? The ones that supposedly keep the cameras from getting your plate? (a friend of mine wants to know... )

 

[DrRocket]

They had some red light cameras installed at various Minneapolis intersections, and St Paul was seriously looking at them also. They were issuing quite a few tickets, and some serious money was being collected. Then, someone challenged their ticket using the premise that there was no way to prove that the owner of the car was actually driving the car at the time of the infraction, thus the city hadn't proved that the owner was the offender, since the cameras only got a picture of the license plate. It went through various appeals, until the state supreme court agreed with the challengers and said the car owners were denied their due process rights, and that the city hadn't proved their cases. They were also forced to shut the cameras down, and they remain shut down to this day. All of the tickets were removed from the records. Since it was a fairly serious piece of change, the city tried to keep the money, but they were eventually forced by the courts to give that back too.

EDIT: And I've heard that no, those license plate covers DO NOT work all that well. Moot point in Minnysoder, as it's illegal to put any kind of covering over your plate, even a clear one.

 

[The Swegian]

They had some red light cameras installed at various Minneapolis intersections, and St Paul was seriously looking at them also. They were issuing quite a few tickets, and some serious money was being collected. Then, someone challenged their ticket using the premise that there was no way to prove that the owner of the car was actually driving the car at the time of the infraction, thus the city hadn't proved that the owner was the offender, since the cameras only got a picture of the license plate. It went through various appeals, until the state supreme court agreed with the challengers and said the car owners were denied their due process rights, and that the city hadn't proved their cases. They were also forced to shut the cameras down, and they remain shut down to this day. All of the tickets were removed from the records. Since it was a fairly serious piece of change, the city tried to keep the money, but they were eventually forced by the courts to give that back too.

EDIT: And I've heard that no, those license plate covers DO NOT work all that well. Moot point in Minnysoder, as it's illegal to put any kind of covering over your plate, even a clear one.

David, I remember that. When that whole thing was going thru the courts, wasn't there some argument too about the constitutionality of the cameras that affected the decision? I seem to recall something about the lawyers arguing that the cameras infringed upon our constitutional rights (on what grounds I don't recall so maybe I'm thinking of something else) or maybe it had something to do with invasion pf privacy laws.

 

[mw6789]

I understand you have to be positively identified to be charged with the ticket?

I wear an Obama mask when driving. I get no tickets but I've been shot at a lot lately?

OK DUDE--You owe me a keyboard--just spit coffee all over mine while laughing!!!

 

[mw6789]

I think the whole deal sucks--nothing but REVENUE GENERATION. We had an a**hole traffic court judge in Little Rock for a while that started a deal where if you were stopped for no insurance, no registration, no tag, or anything else they could think of, your car was impounded. The city had their own deal with a wrecker company and the city owned the impound lot. Lots of poor folks who could not afford it lost their rides in this rip off. But at least justice was finally served--the judge was swept up in the Whitewater deal with Clinton. Best I remember he did jail time--hope it was in a cell with one of the Bubbas that lost their truck.

 

[DrRocket]

David, I remember that. When that whole thing was going thru the courts, wasn't there some argument too about the constitutionality of the cameras that affected the decision? I seem to recall something about the lawyers arguing that the cameras infringed upon our constitutional rights (on what grounds I don't recall so maybe I'm thinking of something else) or maybe it had something to do with invasion pf privacy laws.

Yep. The the thing was since a moving violation in Minnesota is considered a misdemeanor, all the normal rules of criminal law apply. One of those rules is that the charging authority must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person charged actually committed the crime. Since the cameras only recorded the license plate, and not the image of the person driving, it fell upon the charging authority to prove that the owner of the car was actually driving the car at the time of the infraction. The courts all ruled that since the city couldn't do that, the tickets were not valid.

Score one for the common man!!!

 

[Kelly]

The red light cameras here in Houston are scoring big! Not so much on fines.....but the number of accidents at intersections they are at are down SIGNIFICANTLY!

I'll take THAT any day!

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

The red light cameras here in Houston are scoring big! Not so much on fines.....but the number of accidents at intersections they are at are down SIGNIFICANTLY!

I'll take THAT any day!

We should all hail any progress towards safety these devices make. Personally, I've been so irritated by red-light-runners that every ticket they give should stick, in my opinion. I know what a yellow light means and it's not "speed up and risk it." My favorite of all are those left turn arrow runners who sneak in last but block the intersection for the through traffic which should follow. There should be jail time for these as no punishment seems sufficient for these selfish jerks.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Yep. The the thing was since a moving violation in Minnesota is considered a misdemeanor, all the normal rules of criminal law apply. Since the cameras only recorded the license plate, and not the image of the person driving, it fell upon the charging authority to prove that the owner of the car was actually driving the car at the time of the infraction. The courts all ruled that since the city couldn't do that, the tickets were not valid.Score one for the common man!!!

These things (especially the red light units) are WAY more sophisticated! Offending driver gets a nice photo of himself and the license plate (trust me, I know - ) A well known rap "artist" who lives here was clocked at 110 in Scottsdale in his bright yellow Pro Street Nova. I think that one was a little more than $160 and went on his record. Of course, the bright yellow graphic of his stage name on the windshield probably didn't help his cause -
On the frustration side, a school teacher was charged with a felony yesterday after attacking a camera with a pickaxe (with a DPS officer in a cruiser sitting 100 feet away). Emotions certainly run high on this issue!

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

On the frustration side, a school teacher was charged with a felony yesterday after attacking a camera with a pickaxe (with a DPS officer in a cruiser sitting 100 feet away). Emotions certainly run high on this issue!

Isn't that where the ever-casual "60 MPH brick chuck" comes in handy?

 

[Bowtie]

I understand you have to be positively identified to be charged with the ticket?

I wear an Obama mask when driving. I get no tickets but I've been shot at a lot lately?

You owe me a new keyboard for this post of the year candidate!

 

[Butch]

The night Earl Simmons got his photo shoot in Scottsdale, he made it on two or three cameras within five mile. With each shoot adding up to $160 for each of his glamor shots.