Observation about Indy entry list

[Bill]

Well, said, Mike! You make a lot of very good points.

I would be interested to know just how much it really does cost to put together one of thses 190 mph Super Comp cars with the 600+ cid BBC, super 'glide, cloned 9" Ford rear end, and the capability to run within .005 every time down the track.

Anybody have a dollar figure for such a car?

Just curious, that's all...

Bill

 

[clwill]

Well, said, Mike! You make a lot of very good points.

I would be interested to know just how much it really does cost to put together one of thses 190 mph Super Comp cars with the 600+ cid BBC, super 'glide, cloned 9" Ford rear end, and the capability to run within .005 every time down the track.

Anybody have a dollar figure for such a car?

Just curious, that's all...

Bill

Sure I do. Good 4-link chassis: 35k, well done 632ci engine: 35k, misc other stuff: 10k. That'll get you close.

I know a guy who bought just such a car, complete for $85k and went out the next weekend and won the D6 race at Spokane.

 

[Toejam]

I have said many times super class racing is like golf. Lots of fun to play, but not much fun to watch others play. I hear all the arguments about break out racing--but the truth of the matter is, were there no break out racing, the entry lists would be next to nothing. Comp eliminator has to be one of the most expensive classes of all to run--mega high dollar motors with a very limited parts life expectancy. The entry lists for comp are not exactly lengthy due to the high costs. I dont particularly enjoy watching super class racing, but I do respect the skills and effort required to participate. I also understand that were it not for the super classes, many of these racers would not be racers--they would be spectators. I personally enjoy super stock and stock class racing, and I must admit a pair of hemi super stockers leaving the line with the wheels in the air are a lot more fun to watch than a W/SA station wagon lumbering down the track. But I do respect the skill and mechanical ability it takes to make that old wagon run a second under the index. The fact is that NHRA class racing really offers something for everybody. And, everybody should be respectful of the fact that each class requires a tremendous amount of talent and ability to be sucessful. And dont think for a second there arent a bunch of guys and gals in the sportsman classes that couldnt make waves in the pro ranks--given the right opportunity and financing. Just my two cents worth--now probably only worth a penny due to government overspending.

Mike, I too think you made some valid points, however as I pointed out in an earlier post the Speeds have gotten ridiculous! You rarely ever saw a SC car over 170 back in 90-91, now you have some over 190-200 MPH! How does that contain costs? And I've seen some of the entry lists for TS/TD when they are contested, and the car counts while not near anywhere near SC/SG counts, s still impressive!

 

[clwill]

I know a guy who bought just such a car, complete for $85k and went out the next weekend and won the D6 race at Spokane.

I should note, however, that this car won't run w/in .005 all day. The big huge engines are notoriously inconsistent. This guy, in fact, did have a .005 over run in round 1, but the remaining packages were in the .040 range. He just beat people who mostly beat themselves.

I believe you're better off saving $15k and doing something like a 572ci or something that'll get you into the low 170s. That'll at least get you out of the complete "duck" category, and you'll have a much more consistent engine. It also won't need as much maintenance.

To run w/in .010 consistently you need not only a good car but also:

• A good weather station and maybe a piece of software to help you predict
• A boatload of run data in various conditions to help establish good ratios
• A ton of practice so that you know exactly what your car feels like on a .000 run.

This gets back to the real keys to winning in S/C (IMHO): the people. You need to be able to cut excellent lights consistently (<.020 all the time), you need to be able to dial the car w/in .020 (.010 is better, of course) consistently, and most importantly (and most difficultly), you need to know your car well enough to dump the opponent when they're running an 8.89 and you know it. That's one of the hardest things in drag racing -- to let the other guy go when you KNOW they're going to break out.

 

[Reese]

I must admit a pair of hemi super stockers leaving the line with the wheels in the air

Very good post Mike but that statement makes me want to find a way to get to Indy. I went a couple of years ago and I could have left after class eliminations.
But my fuel friends would have none of that.

 

[Nunz]

Well this thread started about the number of entries at Indy, and I was surpised to see really strong numbers on the TAD, TAFC and Comp entry lists. Along with Super Stock, and I'm waiting to see if a buddy of mine will make it with his SS/AH car. I may do Indy a little different this year, go down Wed-Fri, that way I can see ALL the Hemi cars, Comp qualifying, alky classes, and catch Friday night pros under the lights to get my PS and Nitro fix.

 

[Bill]

One more hijack, and I'll shut up.
Is it then, impossible (or, highly improbable) to build, say, a SBC Nostalgia Dragster for Comp for eighty-five thousand dollars?

I'm not sure I could spend that much with a simple FED and a SBC/'Glide...

Bill

 

[clwill]

One more hijack, and I'll shut up.
Is it then, impossible (or, highly improbablky) to build, say, a SBC Nostalgia Dragster for Comp for eighty-five thousand dollars?

I'm not sure I could spend that much with a simple FED and a SBC/'Glide...

Bill

One more answer, and then I'll shut up (yeah, right...).

Your "simple FED and a SBC/'Glide" wouldn't go 180+ in S/C trim or into the sixes and over 190 in T/D mode either

 

[willy]

One more answer, and then I'll shut up (yeah, right...).

Your "simple FED and a SBC/'Glide" wouldn't go 180+ in S/C trim or into the sixes and over 190 in T/D mode either

Which begs the question..
why in the hell is it going this direction? Every category seems to have absolutely eliminated the REGULAR GUY!! It is just disheartening that this sport went from inventing ingenuity..to buying ingenuity.

Even the Hemi Shootout is way out of touch cost wise..but man I love it..classic stuff.

Cordova/Eddyville has the Ozark Mountain Super Shifters..awesome stuff..wheels up..banging gears and very popular with the crowd. An automatic isn't even allowed..and some are going low 6's. And that low 6 guy would be in the final with a low 7 guy..just fun to watch.

 

[HEMI6point1]

If I hit the lottery, I would have a 7/8th scale '02 Cadillac Eldorado built for comp - tube frame, cage, tubbed and powered by a GM ZZ572/720R with twin turbos. Should be a crowd pleaser.

Okay, I'll be quiet now.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Cordova/Eddyville has the Ozark Mountain Super Shifters..awesome stuff..wheels up..banging gears and very popular with the crowd. An automatic isn't even allowed..and some are going low 6's. And that low 6 guy would be in the final with a low 7 guy..just fun to watch.

I got my first taste of those guys when I was out there last year with the Black Reign group and I loved watching those things. It may have been bracket racing, but it was bracket racing I could really sink my teeth into, especially the true stick cars (not lencos). High-windin', wheel hangin' and gear bangin'.............Oh HELL yeah!!!

Sean D

 

[vegasnitro]

High-windin', wheel hangin' and gear bangin'.............Oh HELL yeah!!!

You should put that on a TShirt Sean.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

You should put that on a TShirt Sean.

That's a great idea, Chris!

How 'bout it? Anybody out there with the Super Shifters? You can use my quote for t-shirts...... for a small royalty, of course!!! LMAO!!! Actually, two royalties. Gotta' give Chris his props for coming up with the idea!

Sean D

P.S. You know, Chris; I had one last year that I thought was pretty good also. Nicknaming Ashley Force's car, "Heir Force One". I thought that was great, but apparently nobody at Force Racing thought so. My royalty fee must've been too high.........

 

[Bill]

Christopher Williams said, "Your "simple FED and a SBC/'Glide" wouldn't go 180+ in S/C trim or into the sixes and over 190 in T/D mode either "

I think you've missed the point.

The contention (by some) was that the reason people build .90 cars is because they can no longer afford to race in a "performance-based eliminator" (like Comp.)

You're telling me that this Nostalgia Dragster I was asking about wouldn't run 180 mph in Super Comp.

Who cares? It's not a Super Comp car. Doesn't NEED to go 180 mph.

I wasn't talking about building a cheaper S/C car; I was askng if this legitimate Nostalgia Dragster Comp Eliminator car might not be cheaper to build than a 190+ mph S/C car.... which, if true, would pull the pins out from under the argument that it's more expensive to build a Comp car than a S/C high-mph car....

Your comment about what it would or would not do in S/C seems irrelevant to me. In what way is that pertinent to this discussion?

This is (or, was supposed to be) about costs in S/C vs. Comp... not mph.

I still don't KNOW what the answer to that quetion is, but I know one thing. It's not important as to what it would do in S/C because it'll never run that Eliminator.

Nobody's ventured a guess as to what it would cost to build a SBC/'Glide Nostalgia Dragster for Comp Eliminator, so, maybe nobody has a clue.

I have no idea, but I would think it would be cheaper than $85.000.00.

I know I said I'd shut up, but your comment about putting this car into S/C or T/D needed a response. This was it.


Bill

 

[clwill]

I know I said I'd shut up, but your comment about putting this car into S/C or T/D needed a response. This was it.

You missed the point.

Your car wouldn't give the thrill of 180+ or <7 seconds.

 

[Bill]

The point was, is the reason the S/C racers aren't building cars for the "performance" classes the money? That was what people have been saying here.

If you can build the Nostalgia dragster I was talking about for less than the 85-grand it takes to build a high-mph S/C car, then the answer is "NO."

It's NOT the money.

That was the point. Your comment about "thrills" has nothing to do with this discussion. However, the National Record in B Nostalgia Dragster is 6.83 @ 192 mph...
I'd say that's a little more thrilling than a rules-mandated, 8.90 S/C ride, wouldn't you?

You'd think that for less expenditure, the competitor with a choice of racing a performance-based car, running in an eliminator where it's possible to actually outrun somebody (with no breakout constraints) such as Comp Eliminator, would choose that type of racing over a breakout eliminator such as S/C, where you're limited as to how quick you can go.

If it's not the money (and I don't think it is, given these two examples) what is it?

Interesting question, I think.

Bracket racing vs. Drag Racing.


Bill

 

[haagar]

Your car wouldn't give the thrill of 180+ or <7 seconds.

The records for both the nostalgia dragster classes in comp are <6.90 at over 190mph so his car better be 180+ at <7 or he might as well not build it ( Competition Eliminator Quarter-Mile Record Holders ).

 

[Treeshaker]

I bracket raced once. I happen to be at the track in my Vette, and there was a vette club there. They kept asking me to race with them, so I signed up. Made a few passes to see what my "dial" woul;d be. I dialed in at 13.65 ( stock C5)

There was a C4 there dialed in at 11.70 something. He had me in the first round, so he dialed in a 13.65 also, even though it was an 11 second car.
He left with me, put 6" on me and just rode there. Of course, he "won" if you want to call it. But I can tell you, what we did was not drag racing. IIt was just ****** around on a drag strip.

Jay, he did what was necessary to win a round of racing, he had a better light and ran closer to his dial in than you did. Don't be pissed at him, just do a better job of driving yourself and you could be the winner next time.

Bill - you are not going to be able to build, and probably not even buy a used competitive ND for $85,000.00. And when someone hits your index, be prepared to spend that much again to make your car competitive again.

The reason for the vast numbers in the index classes, is you build your car and then race it, not continually work on it to make it better. The combinations are myriad to run the number, and can be easily bought. It is a bigger thrill to run the big top end numbers, and it is easier to drive the stripe coming from behind than it is looking over your shoulder.

All out classes require constant maintenance and R & D to stay competitive. Lots of time and money required.

And I know this guy who has won a national event or two, maybe even a couple of world championships, who doesn't own or use a weather station to dial his cars in. His last name is Cohen, maybe you have heard of him.

 

[Frank]

Nunzio,
The car count in comp at Indy so far is way down. Remember Indy qualifies a 64 car field and there are only 45 on the entry list at this point. If I remember right, last year there were 72 or so cars trying to qualify.

Bill Dedman,
Comp is extremely expensive. Just to give you an idea the gap between Pro Stock and Comp is smaller than the gap between Comp and SC. A lot of comp drivers are spending close to Pro Stock money yet when they win, they get paid out like Super Stock.

Jay Eshbach,
You lost that race because your opponent cut a better light or because you didn't run close enough to your dial. If you would have cut a better light than him and run your number, he would have broke out trying to stay 6 inches ahead of you.

 

[Reese]

The reason for the vast numbers in the index classes, is you build your car and then race it, not continually work on it to make it better.
All out classes require constant maintenance and R & D to stay competitive. Lots of time and money required.

Thanks Virgil, That's is one reason I wish(kind of) that I would have builded a super gas car. I will not be able to bracket race this superstock motor every weekend because we a building it to run at least 1 second under index(wanna run Indy next year). If it breaks, I might have a short superstock career(until I win the lottery). We build it, dyno it, change parts if its not making enough horsepower, then dyno it again. It gives me a lot of respect for those that are running all out classes, their R & D must be awesome.