NHRA points question....

[Guppy]

i find it interesting, that in a sport that's all about winning and being the best, that the rule book spells out the pay by when you lose, not by the rounds you won...

Let's carry this to it's logical end... The most you can take home should be finals loser... The winner of the race can't lose to anyone else at that event to justify earning more money or points than the last person he beat... He or she can't be beat until the next race... Therefore round money and points can't be allocated until they finally lose at some future race the same season...

D'kid

i like the way you think!!!

 

[blowerboy]

Randy, no... it doesn't make us feel any better. Sorry to here about your situation. And yes I guess we are in better shape by getting a portion of the moneys. Maybe I'm dense, but I don't understand what could have EVER created such policies? We are all here to race. We all NEED to cover the cost. I see absolutly no reason for a sponsered team to leave, but WE are not. Is the intent of these policies to give the fans side by side racing? That is the only thing that I can come up with. It still does not make any sense to me. Live and learn .......I guess. We WILL be in Phoenix! We WILL be p***ed off! We WILL be looking to kick A**

 

[.]

A person like you could never understand it? It's just not possible since you didn't load a half million dollars of your own stuff in a transporter that cost the same then drive 1/3 of the way across the U. S. to compete in a weekend event that extended beyond your ability to stay to save your company or job that feeds your entire volunteer crew's families.

You also didn't schedule and purchase transportation, food, hotels, flights, etc. for them all, only to be required to extend them or purchase new ones based on an undetermined number of days of extension waiting for weather to hopefully clear.

You could never comprehend such because guys like yourself never will face such a situation. I do understand it on a somewhat smaller scale first-hand however, so I'll sympathize rather than post snide/backhanded remarks about a poorly written rule that actually contradicts the spirit of it's own intent and directly punishes the very group that make up the show that is NHRA.

Short version: Strasburgs got brutally hosed and your type don't care.

My type? My TYPE? Mr Miller, I have owned race cars (plural) and started in the late 70's. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that you think "my type" doesn't figure into this at all. And never has. You, sir, are mistaken, egotistical, and quite frankly talk like you wish you were one of the Joneses. It MIGHT make your complaining seem like it means more if you were.

Do I have a budget that allows me to do the things you describe? No.

Do you?

Have you been thru this situation and how was your team handled?
Sorry if I missed Bobby Miller Racing gets screwed out of TF round points after a rainout and they left story.
.
Musta missed it.

Please, tell the story. From "your type" of stand point. Did you and your team lose a top 10 countdown spot?

How did NHRA screw YOU and YOUR team out of TF points in a rain out no show situation.

If they didn't, you are making your situation fit your perfect complaint.

 

[yoda]

My type? My TYPE? ......
.........
...If they didn't, you are making your situation fit your perfect complaint.

Where's the popcorn when ya need it?? This should be interesting....

 

[.]

You're right Greg. I was wrong for making it personal (although that was not my intent) against you if you took it that way. I apologize.

For the record, I did stop running at NHRA national events and division races some 10 years ago. Living in California as I do, becoming an IHRA licensed driver will not help me when I enter my funny car at a non-NHRA event at a NHRA sanctioned track. Can't do it.

And I was a sponsor for 12 years with many NHRA pro cars. So I have been on both sides of the fence.

Lastly, there is a big difference between complaining and being outraged by any given situation. This may be the final straw that puts my car up for sale.

P.S. And let me also add, that many fans such as yourself always want the inside scoop on the sport you love so much. Appears some only want the good news, and not the ugly truth.

Bill, I have seen your name around the sport for years. I have no beef with you, or essentially your thoughts.

I understand your frustration, but where you gonna run?

I still hold a comp license so that I can drive a friend of mines digger and another ones 9.50 door slammer, which I have done in the last few years.

National events? Uhm, hell no. Divisional? Maybe, in the right car.

Not because NHRA decided not to award points or pay based on rules (which I dont think anyone is protesting, except here, on the Mater, home of keyboard owners, ,chiefs, and drivers).

 

[.]

Where's the popcorn when ya need it?? This should be interesting....

I will be labeled the bad guy, and Mr Miller will be.. well, he will be Mr Miller. Soothsayer of what should happen.

I hope he never runs into a situation like this when he takes his TF car out for points. That would suck. Well, if he had a TF car. and was running for points, and in the countdown, and..

Otherwise, 95% complainer.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

My apologies to the Maters. I'll respond to Mr. Moon in private messaging where such a response belongs. My remarks were not intended to belittle - rather to clarify.

 

[Buzzz Miller]

All right, let's all calm down and look at the facts.
We now know a few things;
1) We now know that drag racing took some history from bowling. Getting a round win means very little until we see what happens in the next frame, then they can determine what points/ money we will extend as "winnings" for any given round." (Or should we call them "losings"?)
2) We know not showing, breaking, not starting, (or whatever reason) we do not stage the car is not considered "losing" a round by the NHRA. (I would love to hear what it IS considered.)
3) We know that if we do not stage the car, we do not get credit for whatever happened last round. -so I guess this leads to a question - If someone sets an ET. record, do they have to lose in the next, or at least stage the car in the nest round to get the record? Or to get the points for the record? If they break and not stage the car, or can't make the re-scheduling do they get the record? The points for the stated record? If someone breaks into some new club- like an imaginary 'BG 6.50 pro stock club'. Do they have to lose next round get entry? Or at least show next round? What of the winner of the finals? I don't get that one.
4) NHRA has the right, the power and the place to interpret the rules for any unique situation. They could easily give the round points and money to the Strasburgs. I doubt that anyone in the fuel ranks would oppose that.
5) According to Greg Moon, Mr Miller is a Jack@$$ and should not be able to say the words "drag racing" as he is just not worthy of such an honor.
6) Bobby Miller and his office set-up the Strasburgs business website, updates it regularly. He pays for the hosting and fees. He feeds the crew when they are in town. Houses their transporter on occasions. Bobby Millers race team makes completely custom carbon fiber parts for the Strasburgs car. Welds on their car, fixes broken parts between rounds, has painted parts, housed parts, picked up parts from other fuel teams and delivered them all the way to Utah.
7) I would consider him much more a member of that team than some on this board would want to take away. And as such, has much more emotional attachment to that team than some on this board would want to take away.
?) Maybe Bobby should borrow some guys 9.50 car so he can be a "real contributor" and not so much of a "keyboard owner, ,chief, and driver." Now that I think of it, one of his cars did go 9.50 once. It shook the tires and shut off. I think he owns one boat that won't go 9.50.

 

[Randy]

Where's the popcorn when ya need it?? This should be interesting....

 

[Tim5636sc]

Might need some of this after this question.

Did Ashley Force or the Kalitta team receive points / money for their choice to not race after accidents in dallas, (DADS ACCIDENT FOR ASh) or when team Kalitta did not race in top fuel in e-town after Scott's accident?
I fully support their choice and decision to park the cars, but just wondering if those teams received the points and $ for their efforts earlier at those events.
Anybody know?

 

[DragFan2]

All right, let's all calm down and look at the facts.

Bobby Miller and his office set-up the Strasburgs business website, updates it regularly. He pays for the hosting and fees. He feeds the crew when they are in town. Houses their transporter on occasions. Bobby Millers race team makes completely custom carbon fiber parts for the Strasburgs car. Welds on their car, fixes broken parts between rounds, has painted parts, housed parts, picked up parts from other fuel teams and delivered them all the way to Utah.

I would consider him much more a member of that team than some on this board would want to take away. And as such, has much more emotional attachment to that team than some on this board would want to take away.

Buzz, thanks for filling us in on all the cool stuff your family does for race teams like the Strasburgs (and maters) who happen to get to know Bobby and your family. I'm formerly from the Phoenix area and don't get back to visit that often, but if I did, I would want to meet Bobby and you guys just to shake your hands and thank you for all the neat stuff you do and share with us "keyboard jockeys". I can fully understand Bobby's frustration over what appears to be another "bad" rule in NHRA's rule book that hurts the exact type of team that NHRA is depending on this year to "bail them out" with regards to short Top Fuel fields. I think if I was Graham Light and Tom Compton and the rest of the NHRA top brass, I would take a serious look at this and probably other rules that are counter-productive to NHRA surviving if only the few mega-teams show up to race.

 

[PJ]

this list was already good and then #8...home run, game over


I never realized that if you didn't stage the car what happened in the previous round doesn't count for points or money. Doesn't seem right to me

 

[fcpilot]

As a driver it is agonizing not being able to bring the car back to the line after winning the previous round. I have personally had that happen. We just happened to experience breakage that prevented us from safely competing. You sit and mentally abuse yourself over "what might have been". You feel just as bad as if you got kicked in the crotch (to help paint the mental picture of the painful and sick feeling you have inside). Luckily with the organization I race with I did not have to be kicked in the face with loosing points for not showing back up to the line. Or even worse, have your "winnings" withheld from you (which you, your team as well as owner worked very hard to earn) as well as your hard earned points stripped due to unfortunate circumstances. Just sad.

Paul

 

[PJ]

Ok I don't like the rule but I am curious as to what the thought is behind it?(no jokes)
By doing it like this does it prevent something? I just don't get why a rule would be set like this maybe if I heard an explanation as to why it would make sense

 

[You!]

That's a great question PJ. Here's the answer.

Years ago, it was fairly common for the IHRA (or for a short time, the PDA) to schedule one of their national events the weekend or so after an NHRA national meet. If the NHRA event was delayed due to weather, some teams would head to the IHRA event the following weekend. The only way the NHRA could insure that teams would come back to their race was to hold their points already earned, or even more importantly, THEIR EARNINGS SO FAR. (Depending how far they were into eliminations/qualifying.) Nice, uh?

As you can see, this is not what happened at Pomona, but if the powers that be want the rule to fit, then so be it. Now more than ever we need a nationwide sanctioning body that will allow us a choice as racers where we want to spend our money to race.

 

[Randy]

As a driver it is agonizing not being able to bring the car back to the line after winning the previous round. I have personally had that happen. We just happened to experience breakage that prevented us from safely competing. You sit and mentally abuse yourself over "what might have been". You feel just as bad as if you got kicked in the crotch (to help paint the mental picture of the painful and sick feeling you have inside). Luckily with the organization I race with I did not have to be kicked in the face with loosing points for not showing back up to the line. Or even worse, have your "winnings" withheld from you (which you, your team as well as owner worked very hard to earn) as well as your hard earned points stripped due to unfortunate circumstances. Just sad.

Paul

I may be wrong (I doubt it) but the "rule" is enforced when the entry has packed up and left the property like we did. If you have an issue that keeps you from making it back for the next round and you are still on the property it counts as a loss for the round you failed to run.

At the finals in 2004 when Marc White and I were racing together (when the oil manufacturer who sponsored us forgot to tell us they removed the zinc and phosphates from their racing oil) we ran 5.59 in the last qualifying session. It blackened the crank on that run and ended our weekend. We lost our first engine in the first session, and I wasn't about to feed it number 3 until we figured out what was wrong (thanks to Jay Payne and Mike Gruber at Valvoline we never had any more issues after that).

I told Patterson we were done and an alternate was put in our place for first round, but we didn't leave. We got the points and money and were awarded a first round loss. The team that took our place would have accumulated no points, and the money they earned would have been minus our first round money.

Point is, we were on the property but didn't run.

RG

 

[NHRAMike]

Might need some of this after this question.

Did Ashley Force or the Kalitta team receive points / money for their choice to not race after accidents in dallas, (DADS ACCIDENT FOR ASh) or when team Kalitta did not race in top fuel in e-town after Scott's accident?
I fully support their choice and decision to park the cars, but just wondering if those teams received the points and $ for their efforts earlier at those events.
Anybody know?

Excellent point Tim!!!
Well, I just went thru the archives at DRC and compared the points after Memphis and after Dallas and found something vewwy intewesting.....
It seems that both Papa John and Princess were both awarded losers points for each of their semi-final matchups with each of the Bros. Pedregon. JF went into Dallas with 2115 points and came out with 2191 points for a gain of 76 points (3 rounds and a #3 qualifying position) and Ashley went in with 741 points and came out with 815 points, a gain of 74 points (3 rounds and a #5 qualifying position) So there is a precedent already in place (if your last name is Force)

 

[yoda]

Thanks RG...

And Mr. Moon- in the spirit of a new, kinder, gentler " 'mater Martin" , I will not pass judgement upon you and label you a bad guy. Don't know you- won't judge you like that based on your opinions.

Let's hope this lasts longer than my Hornitos moratorium....

Both sides: resume jousting

 

[Guppy]

Excellent point Tim!!!
Well, I just went thru the archives at DRC and compared the points after Memphis and after Dallas and found something vewwy intewesting.....
It seems that both Papa John and Princess were both awarded losers points for each of their semi-final matchups with each of the Bros. Pedregon. JF went into Dallas with 2115 points and came out with 2191 points for a gain of 76 points (3 rounds and a #3 qualifying position) and Ashley went in with 741 points and came out with 815 points, a gain of 74 points (3 rounds and a #5 qualifying position) So there is a precedent already in place (if your last name is Force)

THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO HMMMMM......

 

[Tim5636sc]

Excellent point Tim!!!
Well, I just went thru the archives at DRC and compared the points after Memphis and after Dallas and found something vewwy intewesting.....
It seems that both Papa John and Princess were both awarded losers points for each of their semi-final matchups with each of the Bros. Pedregon. JF went into Dallas with 2115 points and came out with 2191 points for a gain of 76 points (3 rounds and a #3 qualifying position) and Ashley went in with 741 points and came out with 815 points, a gain of 74 points (3 rounds and a #5 qualifying position) So there is a precedent already in place (if your last name is Force)

i guess the shoe is on the other foot... EH NHRA? So emotional distress is ok...having to go back to work in the real world because of 2 days of rain delays and sportsman driver getting sick..(MR GOODWIN'S driver daniel) is not ok.

Got it?