New Nitro Testing Policy (3 Viewers)

[wide oval]

I run into Floyd every now and then.

Jay

How is Floyd, I mean Bob doing? I raced Go Karts with him in the '80s.
Dan

 

[Linda Sapienza]

Isn't their motto " Dedicated to safety" ????? Why then would they do anything to discourage testing? if they can't test then they shouldn't be
penalized for an oil down right.

As far as only penalizing the big money teams and not the smaller teams NHRA can't do that because that would be discrimination.

Will the last person to leave NHRA please turn out the lights. Thanks

 

[Geezer]

I’m a lurker on here, so please bear with me on this.

My take on these new testing rules is that in these difficult economic times, the NHRA has acted to attempt to level the playing field for all potential entrants.

It is my view that the well-funded teams will always naturally have an advantage if they can (afford to) go testing at any convenient time - it is simply the way things are, so the NHRA has seemingly acted to give everyone their best chance, come race-day. On that point alone, it has to be good for the sport, doesn’t it?

Having said that, in my eyes, the NHRA statement/rule simply comes across as self preservation, along the lines of “you better not rat-out to the likes of another promoting body, or waste your money when you could be at our event, or we’ll penalize you as much as we feel like” Shame really…

For me, the statement/rule has simply not been thought through. As written, the rule is black and white and although there may be some room for possible exploitation, the reality is that multiple testing is banned. Period.

If the rule is aimed to encourage the not-so well funded teams to participate in the NHRA sanctioned events, then there are a already number of possible scenarios highlighted in this thread that have the potential to make race teams think about where they will compete this year. Surely, that sweeps in more issues about them satisfying sponsors demands/expectations (or not, as the case may be) which increases the financial pressure on the teams?

For me there is one major issue that makes a mockery of this black and white rule:

I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong here (and I'll apologize now), but I recall that after the sport lost Eric Medlin, the JFR team then spent many days testing to i) try and replicate the reason for the failure/accident and ii) testing chassis developments to ensure that the integrity of the car could be improved (and therefore the likelihood of failure being repeated in the future is reduced/removed). I belive that these tests took place during the season, so as written the rule prevents any similar developments should (God forbid) a similar scenario occur again. Go figure...

All of the issues stated in this thread and that highlighted by me could simply be overcome if the new rule contains words along the lines of “teams can apply to the NHRA for special dispensation to undertake tests (as defined in this rule), stating the circumstances and reasons that drive the request”


Just my 2 cents

 

[twok4hd]

I think the way they worded it by saying "professional" nitromethane teams is what makes this very subjective. Just because someone races 3 - 5 times a year in in a nitromethane class does not make them a professional. So what does make a person who races in this category a professional?

The way I read it, nothing is said that a professional nitromethane team can not race at an IHRA national event.

NHRA better tread very lightly when it comes to enforcing this. Just my .02

 

[Muddy]

Usually I can at least see some glimmer of their thinkiing at NHRA when they attempt to draw their pistols and wind up shooting themselves in the foot. This time I just can't get there. It appears they have prohibited some of the lesser funded teams who generally race IHRA from coming to an NHRA event and filling out the field. I just don't understand. I think they are mentally challenged.

 

[twok4hd]

It appears they have prohibited some of the lesser funded teams who generally race IHRA from coming to an NHRA event and filling out the field.

I guess I am reading it differently then. No where does it say that they can not race at an IHRA sanctioned national event. It only talks about exhibition runs, license runs (not sure why they rule that out), match races and using any track for your own personal runs.

 

[Zak]

I spoke with Mr. Light a few hours ago. He was very courteous and up front with me.

The rule (as I understand it and as he explained to me) is intended to control cost not just for the underfunded teams but also to help the 'well' funded teams. The testing ban will keep the well-funded teams from costing each other a ton of money by testing every time the 'other guy' goes testing.

He assured me that part time teams are welcome to compete at NHRA events and would not be fined for excessive testing as we are not full-time participants.

I asked him about the loss of points and shared with him my concern. As a smaller team we need points to be able to show our sponsors our ability to compete and be competitive in NHRA. I shared with him that if we ran enough races, there was a chance that we could make the countdown - and that of course would be helpful to us also. Although - a team that finished one spot out of the countdown - could have a 'beef' with us since we 'tested' at IHRA events.

Mr. Light made no promises to me - but he did say that he would consider our situation and let me know if there were any changes to the rule.

And that's about all we can ask for...

Let's hope we can earn some points in 2009 NHRA Full Throttle Drag Racing

 

[yoda]

I think the way they worded it by saying "professional" nitromethane teams is what makes this very subjective. Just because someone races 3 - 5 times a year in in a nitromethane class does not make them a professional. So what does make a person who races in this category a professional?

The way I read it, nothing is said that a professional nitromethane team can not race at an IHRA national event.

NHRA better tread very lightly when it comes to enforcing this. Just my .02

Race in what they designate as their "Professional" catagory?
Get a check for that?
You're a professional.

 

[none]

O.K. I can’t take it anymore. There have been a couple of posts that made sense but for the most part you guys are flying off the handle without thinking this through. Let’s start with the top funded teams. They continue to increase the gap between themselves and the lower budget guys buy spending huge amounts of money testing. I know that the big teams were surprised at how much money was saved last year after the testing ban. Do you know how many teams were out testing just because they could? They never even thought about do we really need to do this, they have been doing it so long they just did it out of habit as much as anything. This is designed to save all the teams money and to close the gap between the big budget teams (BBT) and the low budget teams (LBT)

Case 1 Let’s say T.J. Zizzo (just to pick a name out of the hat) runs a few IHRA races and wants to run his home race in Chicago, no problem. He won’t be awarded points. Was he racing for the points? He can still win the trophy, he can still win the money. He can still race in front of his friends and family. But he won’t get points. Is T.J. going to stay home because of that?

Case 2 How many BBT guys match race to support there program? Yes, I know that the Forces and the Pedregons and the Wilkersons run the Norwalk Night of fire. If I’m not mistaken they go in and spent the day testing BEFORE they run the show that night. I believe that would be a test day no matter what.

Case 3 How many LBT guys are running match races to pay the bills and running for the championship? I can’t think of any, can you? NHRA isn’t going to fine Terry Haddock for match racing when he comes to Englishtown (or wherever) because he was “exceeding the testing limits” when he was running match races. His only penalty would be points. And he doesn’t care about them anyway.

Case 4 How many IHRA guys come over to race with us a few times a year? How many are racing for points? An IHRA regular isn’t going to be told you can’t race with us. And he isn’t going to be fined for running the other series. He will just be docked points. Now, name an IHRA racer that is running NHRA for the points?

Case 5 How about getting a license? Let’s say that Jay Payne (just to pick a name) decides to try nitro. He builds a car and rents LVMS to get his license upgraded if it takes more than 4 days to get a license he won’t be awarded points at his first race. But then if it takes more than 4 days to get a license, maybe he should just stick to the Alcohol Car-LOL If somebody licenses and comes in the middle of the season, they won’t care about the points, most of the time when guys do that they say right up front “We’re testing and getting ready for next year.”

When is the last time you saw a DSR car at a match race? When was the last time you saw a Kalitta car at a match race? How about Bernstein? Do you think that A.J. is trying to book dates to help finance his team? So, who does this effect? Jack Wyatt was mentioned earlier in the thread, if Jack runs a number of match races he will not be awarded points at the first national event he attends. Go back and read case1 Jack doesn’t race for points. So what does he care? If Urs comes over to run the last few races again will he be doing it for the points? When he went to the semi’s last year I interviewed him a couple of times, the thrill wasn’t about moving up in the points. He was Jacked Up about maybe winning the Wally. And guess what, this year if he wins, he will get the Wally.


This rule is going to save the teams a tremendous amount of money. It will also close the gap between the BBT’s and the LBT’s. It will be good for everybody.

Was there a time last year after the testing ban when you said “This race would have been a lot better if the teams that can afford it were testing more”?

My standard disclaimer; this is strictly my opinion, I am NOT speaking for the NHRA.

Alan

P.S. The ARMY car didn’t test during the year last year and it worked out for them.

 

[Toejam]

O.K. I can’t take it anymore. There have been a couple of posts that made sense but for the most part you guys are flying off the handle without thinking this through. Let’s start with the top funded teams. They continue to increase the gap between themselves and the lower budget guys buy spending huge amounts of money testing. I know that the big teams were surprised at how much money was saved last year after the testing ban. Do you know how many teams were out testing just because they could? They never even thought about do we really need to do this, they have been doing it so long they just did it out of habit as much as anything. This is designed to save all the teams money and to close the gap between the big budget teams (BBT) and the low budget teams (LBT)

Case 1 Let’s say T.J. Zizzo (just to pick a name out of the hat) runs a few IHRA races and wants to run his home race in Chicago, no problem. He won’t be awarded points. Was he racing for the points? He can still win the trophy, he can still win the money. He can still race in front of his friends and family. But he won’t get points. Is T.J. going to stay home because of that?

Case 2 How many BBT guys match race to support there program? Yes, I know that the Forces and the Pedregons and the Wilkersons run the Norwalk Night of fire. If I’m not mistaken they go in and spent the day testing BEFORE they run the show that night. I believe that would be a test day no matter what.

Case 3 How many LBT guys are running match races to pay the bills and running for the championship? I can’t think of any, can you? NHRA isn’t going to fine Terry Haddock for match racing when he comes to Englishtown (or wherever) because he was “exceeding the testing limits” when he was running match races. His only penalty would be points. And he doesn’t care about them anyway.

Case 4 How many IHRA guys come over to race with us a few times a year? How many are racing for points? An IHRA regular isn’t going to be told you can’t race with us. And he isn’t going to be fined for running the other series. He will just be docked points. Now, name an IHRA racer that is running NHRA for the points?

Case 5 How about getting a license? Let’s say that Jay Payne (just to pick a name) decides to try nitro. He builds a car and rents LVMS to get his license upgraded if it takes more than 4 days to get a license he won’t be awarded points at his first race. But then if it takes more than 4 days to get a license, maybe he should just stick to the Alcohol Car-LOL If somebody licenses and comes in the middle of the season, they won’t care about the points, most of the time when guys do that they say right up front “We’re testing and getting ready for next year.”

When is the last time you saw a DSR car at a match race? When was the last time you saw a Kalitta car at a match race? How about Bernstein? Do you think that A.J. is trying to book dates to help finance his team? So, who does this effect? Jack Wyatt was mentioned earlier in the thread, if Jack runs a number of match races he will not be awarded points at the first national event he attends. Go back and read case1 Jack doesn’t race for points. So what does he care? If Urs comes over to run the last few races again will he be doing it for the points? When he went to the semi’s last year I interviewed him a couple of times, the thrill wasn’t about moving up in the points. He was Jacked Up about maybe winning the Wally. And guess what, this year if he wins, he will get the Wally.


This rule is going to save the teams a tremendous amount of money. It will also close the gap between the BBT’s and the LBT’s. It will be good for everybody.

Was there a time last year after the testing ban when you said “This race would have been a lot better if the teams that can afford it were testing more”?

My standard disclaimer; this is strictly my opinion, I am NOT speaking for the NHRA.

Alan

P.S. The ARMY car didn’t test during the year last year and it worked out for them.

Well Alan at least the Sky wasn't falling...

 

[J.C.]

I spoke with Mr. Light a few hours ago. He was very courteous and up front with me.

The rule (as I understand it and as he explained to me) is intended to control cost not just for the underfunded teams but also to help the 'well' funded teams. The testing ban will keep the well-funded teams from costing each other a ton of money by testing every time the 'other guy' goes testing.

He assured me that part time teams are welcome to compete at NHRA events and would not be fined for excessive testing as we are not full-time participants.

I asked him about the loss of points and shared with him my concern. As a smaller team we need points to be able to show our sponsors our ability to compete and be competitive in NHRA. I shared with him that if we ran enough races, there was a chance that we could make the countdown - and that of course would be helpful to us also. Although - a team that finished one spot out of the countdown - could have a 'beef' with us since we 'tested' at IHRA events.

Mr. Light made no promises to me - but he did say that he would consider our situation and let me know if there were any changes to the rule.

And that's about all we can ask for...

Let's hope we can earn some points in 2009 NHRA Full Throttle Drag Racing

Aw Jim, you ruined everyone's day and did the common sense thing and picked up the phone and called NHRA and asked for clarification and help with the ban

Lesson learned - if you might be affected by the ban, pick up the phone and call NHRA and share your concerns. They might just understand that they "missed something" when writing the policy and might modify the policy to accommodate unforeseen situations.

If the ban doesn't affect you, like if you are a fan monitoring a drag racing message board, you should probably just move on to the next post

 

[Zak]

Case 4 How many IHRA guys come over to race with us a few times a year? How many are racing for points? An IHRA regular isn’t going to be told you can’t race with us. And he isn’t going to be fined for running the other series. He will just be docked points. Now, name an IHRA racer that is running NHRA for the points?

Terry McMillen - and any other LBT trying to show their sponsor or potential new sponsor how they fared against a BBT team on a lower budget. You gotta keep score my friend, otherwise I have nothing to show how far we finished out of first.

Auditing a class in college doesn't get you any credit for having learned anything.

 

[Ugly one]

Alan,
Once again you've shown up and taken all of the fun out of a thread

 

[clwill]

Terry McMillen - and any other LBT trying to show their sponsor or potential new sponsor how they fared against a BBT team on a lower budget. You gotta keep score my friend, otherwise I have nothing to show how far we finished out of first.

Exactly. And with a limited number of full-time teams out there, there could be a real interesting battle for 9th and 10th -- just to be able to say to a sponsor: we finished in the top 10. Points are points...

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

If points don't matter, don't have them.

 

[mike cummings]

必须有一个更好的方式

That is exactly what I have been trying to say all along. I just didn't express myself as eloquently as Pete did.

 

[Zak]

If points don't matter, don't have them.

That's exactly right Bobby. But that's where the problem comes in.

The MONEY doesn't matter - it's the points!

If money was all that mattered - we'd get fined. but sometimes (and I can think of dozens of examples outside of racing) where people have said I'll pay the fine - just do it...

If you're racing for bragging rights, a trophy or a t-shirt, you gotta keep score.

 

[none]

Terry McMillen - and any other LBT trying to show their sponsor or potential new sponsor how they fared against a BBT team on a lower budget. You gotta keep score my friend, otherwise I have nothing to show how far we finished out of first.

Auditing a class in college doesn't get you any credit for having learned anything.

Jim,

I read your post after I posted mine. I understand your position. And I'm not arguing with you just having a discussion. At the end of the year would it make a difference if you were 21st or 22nd in the points after running 8 races? I would think the bigger deal would be that you qualified in the top half at 5 races and went to the semi’s twice and the finals once.

You still have the result from each event, if you win Atlanta you will have the trophy and you will forever be in the record books as the winner, but it wouldn’t show up in the year end points. I’m thinking back to the days when the Petosa Bros. Or Joe Pisano would come out at five or six races and win a couple of them. They didn’t care about championship points they just wanted the race trophy. Am I looking at this wrong?

Alan

 

[Mike]

Jim,

I read your post after I posted mine. I understand your position. And I'm not arguing with you just having a discussion. At the end of the year would it make a difference if you were 21st or 22nd in the points after running 8 races? I would think the bigger deal would be that you qualified in the top half at 5 races and went to the semi’s twice and the finals once.

You still have the result from each event, if you win Atlanta you will have the trophy and you will forever be in the record books as the winner, but it wouldn’t show up in the year end points. Am I looking at this wrong?

Alan

Kinda like I said much earlier, the points don't really matter in a sense. But I do understand T Mac's and Jim's point. We all (those of us here that race of course) will have to cross that bridge when we get there.
If I can't be at all of them and race for a championship, I just want to win the race I'm at!

See you at the races!!!!!!!

 

[Mike]

If you're racing for bragging rights, a trophy or a t-shirt, you gotta keep score.

You only have to keep score if you are in it for the long haul of the season. Otherwise you are just looking to win the battle that weekend, not the war.

If points position is how you worded your contracts, I see your problem and some creative thinking must come into play.

The cards have been dealt and, as usual, the house has a slight advantage. The high rollers are in it for the long haul but the ante is the same for all. Jump in for a hand or two, bet wisely, play smart and win a few big pots while the whales are counting their chips.
...See you at the table!!!!