las Vegas (1 Viewer)

[mick]

if nhra can't boost tv ratings, then please consider ways to bring more folks back to the track. i really don't think 1/4 racing is necessary, but the sport has lost many factors that have been discussed here infinitum. i understand you need clean bathrooms, nice bleachers, nice tower, etc., but really?, just
put the action on the track and provide good hotdogs, hamburgers, cold soda and beer.
90 minute turnarounds were great for fans in pits, souvenirs, concessions, and mfg'r. midway.
this quick show of today erodes all of those, and most importantly takes the fans out of their
seats while PSB and PS are running; it is no wonder these two classes have little to no support.
the fan will go to pits, the fan will buy food and souvenirs, somewhere in their day they will be
out of their seat, and it will not be when the nitro cars are running.

 

[FC138fan]

we all remember how things were just 10-15 years ago
and wonder why so much has been taken away from the sport. we come and get our nitro fix once a year and that is enough,
and my guess is each year a few less of the 'former' fans keep coming back; i am one of them, if not for the extracurriculars
at brainerd i would cease to attend.

Just a case study:

I didn't go to Brainerd last year. I was same as you for a few years before (extracurriculars), but then at the last event I went to, we went up Saturday & Sunday. Saturday was all about waiting for the race to be over so we could party... then Sunday morning with a hangover sitting under the stands realizing "I paid over $250 for this?" I forced myself to watch 3 rounds for principle and left early... probably not going this year either. I haven't watched a race on TV since 2013.

I've gone from the diest hard die hard fan ever in 1998 or so to stone cold have absolutely zero desire to follow. In my case, it surely has to do with having a family and raising them (not having any time to watch the races even if I wanted to)... but mostly because theres absolutely no connection to my reality. Other then the fact that they have 4 wheels and a combustion engine, these things aren't even cars anymore. And they're not even really innovative anymore. Its so regulated, homogeneous, bland, plain, vanilla, boring. On top of that, the runs are now what, three and half seconds? I've had burps last longer then that.

I'll spend the money to go to a Monster Jam once a year. They have as little to relate to actual trucks as NHRA cars do to real cars, but they get it. For Monster Jam, its all about entertainment. They abandoned the illusion that its real racing, and focused on the entertainment. I loathed those things when the monster trucks started taking on cartoon like shapes and names, but hey, my kids sure get a kick out of it, and seeing those things fly 50 feet in the air is very entertaining. Not to mention tickets are relatively cheap.

I wonder if NHRA abandoned the illusion of a race (the big show anyway)... the die hards would be disappointed, but if I were running the show, I'd say the heck with you as you're walking out the door I'd watch a crop of younger people and their families roll in with the check books open.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

[QUOTE="90 minute turnarounds were great for fans in pits, souvenirs, concessions, and mfg'r. midway.
this quick show of today erodes all of those, and most importantly takes the fans out of their
seats while PSB and PS are running; it is no wonder these two classes have little to no support.
the fan will go to pits, the fan will buy food and souvenirs, somewhere in their day they will be
out of their seat, and it will not be when the nitro cars are running.[/QUOTE]
Exact - freakin - ly! I just can't understand what the rush is at these events. I pay $50+ for a Sunday GA ticket (because in many cases reserved seating is a security joke) and would like to have time to go to the bathroom, get some lunch and see what is going on in the pits AND watch something besides T/F and F/C. Manufacturers' Midway participation might be a quarter of what it was when attendance was at its peak. And . . . there is no way I am going to attend an event with live TV and 55 minute (maybe) turnarounds.

 

[robslob]

No surprise here. 'Maters have been posting these same comments for over a decade. Of course, not just about the Vegas events, but the NHRA in general. There is no longer any love for drag racing from the leadership of the NHRA. Just an easy paycheck....

 

[onfire]

Preach it, RobSlob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Swegian]

Just a case study:

I didn't go to Brainerd last year. I was same as you for a few years before (extracurriculars), but then at the last event I went to, we went up Saturday & Sunday. Saturday was all about waiting for the race to be over so we could party... then Sunday morning with a hangover sitting under the stands realizing "I paid over $250 for this?" I forced myself to watch 3 rounds for principle and left early... probably not going this year either. I haven't watched a race on TV since 2013.

I've gone from the diest hard die hard fan ever in 1998 or so to stone cold have absolutely zero desire to follow. In my case, it surely has to do with having a family and raising them (not having any time to watch the races even if I wanted to)... but mostly because theres absolutely no connection to my reality. Other then the fact that they have 4 wheels and a combustion engine, these things aren't even cars anymore. And they're not even really innovative anymore. Its so regulated, homogeneous, bland, plain, vanilla, boring. On top of that, the runs are now what, three and half seconds? I've had burps last longer then that.

I'll spend the money to go to a Monster Jam once a year. They have as little to relate to actual trucks as NHRA cars do to real cars, but they get it. For Monster Jam, its all about entertainment. They abandoned the illusion that its real racing, and focused on the entertainment. I loathed those things when the monster trucks started taking on cartoon like shapes and names, but hey, my kids sure get a kick out of it, and seeing those things fly 50 feet in the air is very entertaining. Not to mention tickets are relatively cheap.

I wonder if NHRA abandoned the illusion of a race (the big show anyway)... the die hards would be disappointed, but if I were running the show, I'd say the heck with you as you're walking out the door I'd watch a crop of younger people and their families roll in with the check books open.

I'm leaning towards your viewpoint Nick, especially about Brainerd. Last season was the first time in years where the first event I attended was Brainerd (the last 7-8 years, it was the 4th or 5th). And this year, I'm not planning on going to Brainerd at all. Part of that is wanting to spend more time at the lake place this summer, but mostly because of the price BIR charges for a race ticket. Forced to purchase a reserved seat because there is no GA, the 3-day ticket costs $180. For that piece of crap venue where the car counts are weak, especially in the alcohol classes. If I recall correctly, 14 TAD's and 9 TAFC's showed up last year. And getting into the zoo isn't as easy as it used to be either. I don't camp there since our lake place is pretty close, but it's still cool to go in and see the setups people have. Now you have to pay for a wristband to go in there.

It's been discussed here before, and I'm in the group that thinks going into the pits isn't as fun as it used to be. Throttle whacks are pretty much gone. There's still the smell of nitro that attracts, but nothing like getting a blast of "WHOOOMP" with it. I also didn't mind the 90 minutes between rounds, or having the qualifying sessions 4 hours apart (like noon and 4pm). Gave you plenty of time to wonder the pits and get something to eat/drink.

 

[mick]

mark, i agree with almost everything you said, especially the no GA part, but would disagree that BIR is a sub-standard venue.
i realize the amenities there are not to the standard of the newer tracks, but i know the sportsmen love the room (area) of their pits
and close proximity to staging. they have developed the venue to now hold dual events simultaneously (drag & road track).
the wristband price keeps out free loaders who 'cruise' thru the zoo, find their buddies, and not come out till sunday nite; same
difference as sneaking into your local campground without paying; it happened a lot. the campground is fun and the track owners
spend significantly for live music, infrastructure, vendors, fireworks and security to ensure a great week for their campers.

i am happy the nhra has very nice and new facilities to run at, such as bruton's tracks and chicago, but for a sport that struggles
with tv ratings and lately attendance, i am also glad there are still older but nice venues able to hold the same nat. events in
various pockets of the country, such as seattle, brainerd, phoenix, atlanta, and lately new hampshire.
i would also guess the total event revenue at some of these older venues equals or exceeds their newer counterparts.

 

[JB3]

Exact - freakin - ly! I just can't understand what the rush is at these events. I pay $50+ for a Sunday GA ticket (because in many cases reserved seating is a security joke) and would like to have time to go to the bathroom, get some lunch and see what is going on in the pits AND watch something besides T/F and F/C. Manufacturers' Midway participation might be a quarter of what it was when attendance was at its peak. And . . . there is no way I am going to attend an event with live TV and 55 minute (maybe) turnarounds.

As been stated a million times, the Mater is not the voice of the typical paying customer. It is a fractionally small % of the NHRA ticket buying public. Let me ask this, if you are trying to introduce your family to a new exciting sport ... would you want to spend 8-10 hours (plus travel) dragging the kiddies along, etc?

This has become commonplace in all sports, even though ticket prices are sky rocketing, the average spectator doesn't want to make an all day (all weekend) investment out of the experience. They want nonstop action / entertainment in a defined window of time and then go home. I don't know anyone who wants to sit at a ballgame for 8-10 hours or longer. I want to buy my ticket, show up, and feel I have been entertained and head home in a reasonable amount of time.

Just heard where NASCAR is considering a potential reduction in race length for the same reason. Especially the 500 mile races. There is even some driver support for the reduction.

Today's spectator regardless of the sport places high value on their time. Everyone just seems to be more busy these days. People work longer hours, are more involved in kids activities, etc.

 

[PJ]

As been stated a million times, the Mater is not the voice of the typical paying customer. It is a fractionally small % of the NHRA ticket buying public. Let me ask this, if you are trying to introduce your family to a new exciting sport ... would you want to spend 8-10 hours (plus travel) dragging the kiddies along, etc?

This has become commonplace in all sports, even though ticket prices are sky rocketing, the average spectator doesn't want to make an all day (all weekend) investment out of the experience. They want nonstop action / entertainment in a defined window of time and then go home. I don't know anyone who wants to sit at a ballgame for 8-10 hours or longer. I want to buy my ticket, show up, and feel I have been entertained and head home in a reasonable amount of time.

Just heard where NASCAR is considering a potential reduction in race length for the same reason. Especially the 500 mile races. There is even some driver support for the reduction.

Today's spectator regardless of the sport places high value on their time. Everyone just seems to be more busy these days. People work longer hours, are more involved in kids activities, etc.

There is one big difference between 8-10 hours for a ball game and that for a race. There is action everywhere for a race. In between innings what are you going to do at a baseball game? At the track you can roam the pits, get up close to the cars, check out mfg midway and demos plus who knows what else. At the ballpark, your gonna wait in line to take a leak, grab a hot dog and head back to your seats.

While I agree that we here at the mater are a small number, it is many of us who have invested tons of time and money (be it fan, racer, sponsor). If the moves being made are chasing many of us away yet not gaining new ones then it is a net loss. For each one of us, there are many more current (or sadly former) diehards that feel the same way. I still go to several races a year but only 1 NHRA national event. Drag racing still gets my money but the big show isn't worth the cost. TV ratings and live attendance are way down from 7-10 years ago. The choices have chased away many former loyalist but have failed to bring in replacements.

The NHL had similar issues several years back. They made moves that alienated their fan base and numbers dropped. They were wise enough to alter some of the previous mistakes and have bounced back some. Hopefully NHRA will do the same before it's too late. While the sport will never go away, having the big show might.

 

[mick]

the mater is also a small percentage of the most loyal customers, a lot of us attending 20-30+ years.....i would think our opinions are at least worth reading. lets say you look at a 10 year window. we pay almost without thinking and without being advertised to; it's easy money. now what if you lose one of us because the product has diminished? now you have to replace a die-hard with ideally a younger adult. if you bring a young adult to a present day race, do you think they just return for the next 9 years? without heavy advertising or possibly related to or friends with someone older who still does go year after year? i hope i'm wrong, i hope nhra is attracting new fans that return annually to their local event. what i see though in reality is older fans (40-60) that never missed that are now disenchanted with the product and go every few years or have stopped all together.
as PJ stated we have invested over the years; when i think how much i've dropped just at BIR over the
last 25+ the figure is north of 10k; yes, that's a $400/year average, sometimes i know it's been way more when i used to bring my oldest sons and nephews, sometimes less when i've gone solo for only 2 days. and do my older boys and relatives (around 30) still come? every year they say they are going to, but then do not. even the racing and campground fun from the late 90's and early 2000's
were not enough to hook them.....they can afford it too.

 

[glofria]

Y'all just be crazy with talk like this. Just ask Joe.

BTW, we'll be racing our own car this weekend at the ANRA Season Opener held at the Auto Club Famoso Raceway. You can watch us trackside live on the internet here: http://www.anra.com/

The stands maybe empty, but the pits are full of everyday people racing their pride and joy.

 

[Toejam]

If what I am seeing in the stands during the first T/F round they have about the worst attendance I have ever seen.
if Burton makes it 4 lane he better start giving tickets away free on the LV Strip.

Terry, it's too bad Jon Asher doesn't post here like he used to, I remember when Chicago had Fal races for what 2-3 years? The place was a ghost town! Two races at the same track every year don't work! Even Pomona is starting to show that!

 

[FC138fan]

If I recall correctly, 14 TAD's and 9 TAFC's showed up last year. And getting into the zoo isn't as easy as it used to be either. I don't camp there since our lake place is pretty close, but it's still cool to go in and see the setups people have. Now you have to pay for a wristband to go in there.

Looking back. The best times I've ever had at the drags was driving up to the local track (Salem OH) and watching the division 3 race. Laid back, not crowded at all, and freedom to roam anywhere you want. A day out with dad. For that reason I have a sentimental attachment to blown alcohol cars and dragsters. If my children want to attend a race in the future, I'll take them for the day. however, I'm pretty sure they'll never become interested on their own.

A few on here are just living in the past. Things change... from our point of view sometimes not for the better, but theres no going back. Like Don Henley said, those days are gone forever, I should just let em go. Which I have. Enough complaining about it. It is what it is. Even if everything went back to the way it was in 1995, the drivers are all different. Kenny Bernstein isn't going to be facing Eddie Hill in the final. WJ won't be doing a burndown with Scott Geoffrion. I wont see Steve Evans interviewing Al Hofmann in the pits. Dean Skuza isn't going to be doing a half track burnout. Enjoy the memories, be glad it happened - not sad that its over.

Also, sometimes less is more. Today every run is broadcast. Every interview, every side story, everything is available online. Over saturation. Way back when, staying up till 10pm and recording the hour ESPN 2 show on Thursday night... (watching it live and taping it so I could play it over and over again till the next race). Thats all I had. Attending one race 3 hours away for one day live, thats all I had. NHRA online had a photo gallery (one pic of each car) and an audio library. No video archive available.

 

[Jimbo]

I see what's happening a little different from some of the other comments that I have read.
First off I don't think the N.H.R.A. is completely at fault for what is happening to drag racing in general.

I see something similar happening to many other forms of sports right now and that includes professional golf, circle track racing, car shows, and many other forms of sports.

Anyone notice how far off sales are for soda companies again peoples interests in what they eat and drink are also changing in a big way.

Years ago you saw people building some sort of either a drag car or a muscle car in their garage and today you do not see that the same way you did in years past.

It's simple to me peoples interests are changing and they have so many more way's of spending their free time on either electronic toy's or simply sitting home and watching the tv or using their computer.

Many young people today look at cars differently then we did years ago and as much as I hate to see things change but I believe that is exactly what's happening today.

How to capture peoples interests again in drag racing we be debated for years but keep in mind it is not only drag racing that is seeing things change in a big way!!

Just my opinion Jim Hill
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com

 

[mike]

cars just aren't as "cool" as they used to be (even though there are some really cool cars out there today)....I still can't get over how many of the 15/16/17 year-old's aren't the least bit interested in getting a drivers license, much less watching motorsports.

 

[Jimbo]

Mike Miller:
You are right about teens not wanting to get a drivers license.
It part of the changes I also see taking place and it is not going to be easy for any sectioning body to figure out how to deal with it and stay in business.

If you keep doing the same things you have been doing in the past and are expecting different results in the future all I can say is good luck with that style of thinking.

Jim Hill
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com

 

[Toejam]

Just a case study:

I didn't go to Brainerd last year. I was same as you for a few years before (extracurriculars), but then at the last event I went to, we went up Saturday & Sunday. Saturday was all about waiting for the race to be over so we could party... then Sunday morning with a hangover sitting under the stands realizing "I paid over $250 for this?" I forced myself to watch 3 rounds for principle and left early... probably not going this year either. I haven't watched a race on TV since 2013.

I've gone from the diest hard die hard fan ever in 1998 or so to stone cold have absolutely zero desire to follow. In my case, it surely has to do with having a family and raising them (not having any time to watch the races even if I wanted to)... but mostly because theres absolutely no connection to my reality. Other then the fact that they have 4 wheels and a combustion engine, these things aren't even cars anymore. And they're not even really innovative anymore. Its so regulated, homogeneous, bland, plain, vanilla, boring. On top of that, the runs are now what, three and half seconds? I've had burps last longer then that.

I'll spend the money to go to a Monster Jam once a year. They have as little to relate to actual trucks as NHRA cars do to real cars, but they get it. For Monster Jam, its all about entertainment. They abandoned the illusion that its real racing, and focused on the entertainment. I loathed those things when the monster trucks started taking on cartoon like shapes and names, but hey, my kids sure get a kick out of it, and seeing those things fly 50 feet in the air is very entertaining. Not to mention tickets are relatively cheap.

I wonder if NHRA abandoned the illusion of a race (the big show anyway)... the die hards would be disappointed, but if I were running the show, I'd say the heck with you as you're walking out the door I'd watch a crop of younger people and their families roll in with the check books open.

Nick, what was Real cars about them in 1998 that isn't now? I think most people claim the sport does nothing for them anymore are simply Burned out IMO! As for comparing NHRA to Monster Jam, you think turning NHRA into a staged show like WWE is the ticket?

 

[Toejam]

I'm leaning towards your viewpoint Nick, especially about Brainerd. Last season was the first time in years where the first event I attended was Brainerd (the last 7-8 years, it was the 4th or 5th). And this year, I'm not planning on going to Brainerd at all. Part of that is wanting to spend more time at the lake place this summer, but mostly because of the price BIR charges for a race ticket. Forced to purchase a reserved seat because there is no GA, the 3-day ticket costs $180. For that piece of crap venue where the car counts are weak, especially in the alcohol classes. If I recall correctly, 14 TAD's and 9 TAFC's showed up last year. And getting into the zoo isn't as easy as it used to be either. I don't camp there since our lake place is pretty close, but it's still cool to go in and see the setups people have. Now you have to pay for a wristband to go in there.

It's been discussed here before, and I'm in the group that thinks going into the pits isn't as fun as it used to be. Throttle whacks are pretty much gone. There's still the smell of nitro that attracts, but nothing like getting a blast of "WHOOOMP" with it. I also didn't mind the 90 minutes between rounds, or having the qualifying sessions 4 hours apart (like noon and 4pm). Gave you plenty of time to wonder the pits and get something to eat/drink.

BIR charges $180 for Fri-Sun, not including a Zoo pass? Holy shit....

 

[Toejam]

If what I am seeing in the stands during the first T/F round they have about the worst attendance I have ever seen.
if Burton makes it 4 lane he better start giving tickets away free on the LV Strip.

Have you ever been to Vegas 2 Terry? They sell out Reserved on Sat-Sun both!

 

[Speed1288]

I see what's happening a little different from some of the other comments that I have read.
First off I don't think the N.H.R.A. is completely at fault for what is happening to drag racing in general.

I see something similar happening to many other forms of sports right now and that includes professional golf, circle track racing, car shows, and many other forms of sports.

Here's a big hint as to why. It's green and has pictures of dead presidents. Those sports require alot of it.