John Bandimere's reaction to 1000 ft

[dragstats]

I would say he's less than thrilled...read on:

Shorter track, but cars still fastest - The Denver Post

 

[Suzanne]

I wonder how much of an undertaking it will be to set up 2 sets of timing devices? Im sure there are a few things that the track owner/crew wasnt really prepared to change for this race at such short notice.

 

[d'kid]

I wonder how much of an undertaking it will be to set up 2 sets of timing devices? Im sure there are a few things that the track owner/crew wasnt really prepared to change for this race at such short notice.

I believe Jeff said twenty minutes, once. one more set at 940 feet, then it's a matter if someone goes bowling for blocks.

but then, the speed trap could be as little as a foot, I believe, but the math gets really hairy

 

[NHRADeuce]

All national event tracks already have a 1000' timer, all they need is to add 1 more cone 66 before that so they can calculate speed. All they need to do is bore a couple of holes in the wall for the sensors. Anyone who's ever bored a hole in concrete will tell you it's no big deal. You can rent the tool at Home Depot for $25 and have it done in a half hour.

Even though Bandimere doesn't like 1000' racing, he summed it up pretty well -

But it doesn't make a difference; (the cars) still are what they are. They still make noise. They're still the fastest cars in the world. So it probably won't change anything as far as the excitement and how the thing really works.

 

[clwill]

I don't pretend to know everything, but let's see if we can imagine the "to do" list for this change:

- Buy (or pull from spares) two more sensors
- Drill holes in the two outside walls for the sensors and mount the two sensors
- Run the wires for these two sensors back to the tower (probably over ground for this race, but bury them for the future)
- Change the timing software for a speed trap at this distance (there's not now, nor ever has been a speed trap at that distance).
- Make sure the timing software can easily change the distance by class - probably OK because they already mix jr. dragsters and so on today, but that's 660' vs. 1320', so they need another option for 1000'.
- Test the heck out of this, because this is a nationally televised event
- Figure out what you're going to say/announce to the fans
- Update the programs, or make inserts for the programs to explain it
- Figure out how to handle national records and their corresponding points, possibly combing all 20+ events' data for the last several years looking for 1000' times (who knows if those are kept somewhere??)

Am I close? Forgetting something? Seems like a lot to do in a week, if you want to get it right. Certainly more than "zip-zap-20-mins"...

 

[d'kid]

I don't pretend to know everything, but let's see if we can imagine the "to do" list for this change:

- Buy (or pull from spares) two more sensors
- Drill holes in the two outside walls for the sensors and mount the two sensors
- Run the wires for these two sensors back to the tower (probably over ground for this race, but bury them for the future)
- Change the timing software for a speed trap at this distance (there's not now, nor ever has been a speed trap at that distance).
- Make sure the timing software can easily change the distance by class - probably OK because they already mix jr. dragsters and so on today, but that's 660' vs. 1320', so they need another option for 1000'.
- Test the heck out of this, because this is a nationally televised event
- Figure out what you're going to say/announce to the fans
- Update the programs, or make inserts for the programs to explain it
- Figure out how to handle national records and their corresponding points, possibly combing all 20+ events' data for the last several years looking for 1000' times (who knows if those are kept somewhere??)

Am I close? Forgetting something? Seems like a lot to do in a week, if you want to get it right. Certainly more than "zip-zap-20-mins"...

Lines one, two and three need to be done, Software is the same as 660 or 1320... speed is adding one more line on the printout. test is the same as the rest of the timing system, adding one more light.

Program Change? One Line, Nitro Cars are competing at 1000 feet.
National Record? 1000ft quickest run backed up by 1%
National Record? 1320 as they stand now
Check National Dragster issue 25, pages 104 through 106 to see how they will be listed... also check the first four entries in 1/8th mile... bet you didn't know that.

d'kid

 

[NHRADeuce]

I don't pretend to know everything, but let's see if we can imagine the "to do" list for this change:

- Buy (or pull from spares) two more sensors
- Drill holes in the two outside walls for the sensors and mount the two sensors
- Run the wires for these two sensors back to the tower (probably over ground for this race, but bury them for the future)
- Change the timing software for a speed trap at this distance (there's not now, nor ever has been a speed trap at that distance).
- Make sure the timing software can easily change the distance by class - probably OK because they already mix jr. dragsters and so on today, but that's 660' vs. 1320', so they need another option for 1000'.
- Test the heck out of this, because this is a nationally televised event
- Figure out what you're going to say/announce to the fans
- Update the programs, or make inserts for the programs to explain it
- Figure out how to handle national records and their corresponding points, possibly combing all 20+ events' data for the last several years looking for 1000' times (who knows if those are kept somewhere??)

Am I close? Forgetting something? Seems like a lot to do in a week, if you want to get it right. Certainly more than "zip-zap-20-mins"...

According to Jeff Foster (you know, the guy who does all the work on the timing system) most of the work is already done. The way the data stream is sent, the software calculates the speed based on markers in the stream so there is no change needed for that. They will need to make a change in which ET is reported, but that's a pretty simple change and knowing Larry, it's already done. Incremental times are all kept in a database, it would take literally minutes if that long to figure out the 1000' ET record. Ask Bob Orme, he probably already did it by now. The have no way to know what the speed record is since there has never been a speed trap at 1000', but no points are rewarded for that anyway so it really doesn't matter. By no means am I an expert, but I know enough that when they say it's no big deal to change the system for 1000' racing, I believe them.

 

[clwill]

Geez, I spent 25 years in the software business, and I never once saw a "simple" change to a complex system that didn't muck up something and cause one or two gray hairs. But there's a first time for everything.

And then you have to wonder about Racepak's database and user interface, Crew Chief Pro's database and UI, (all of which mimic the standard time slip), and so on. But hey this is all simple right?

I'm not suggesting it's not doable. I'm not suggesting it's even really that hard. I'm just well aware of unintended consequences, and how they seem to be amplified by short time schedules. I've been up for days on end making deadlines like this work out, it's never as easy as it sounds.

Will they make it work? Sure. Will we all live through the change? You bet. Will nitro burning cars still be cool no matter how far they run? Absolutely. Is this all "zip-zap 20 minutes, no big deal"? No way.

 

[NHRADeuce]

They already have parameter in the system to change the length of the track. Jeff Foster already commented on this, and the end of the data stream will look the same to compulink. Sure, it's probably going to take more than 20 minutes to make all the changes, but there is plenty of time to get it done. Will they be working around the clock to make sure it goes well? Maybe. Is it really that big a deal? The guys doing it say it's not.

Keep in mind that all of these concerns were probably addressed before the decision was made. No point in changing the length of the track if the timing system can't be changed to work right? I would bet that Bob Brockmeyer (I think he still owns compulink), Jeff Foster, and Larry Sullivan were asked for input and a plan long before you or I heard a thing about this.

Of course all of this is pure conjecture and we will all know for sure in a week when they launch the first pair down the track.

 

[hotrod]

I've heard speed numbers being given for 660' and 1000' before. How did they obtain those numbers? Were they just educated guesses based on e.t.?

 

[clwill]

I've heard speed numbers being given for 660' and 1000' before. How did they obtain those numbers? Were they just educated guesses based on e.t.?

There's a speed trap at 660', none at 1000' at any track I've ever seen or heard of.

 

[Bobby]

"The grandstands at the Morrison track stop well before the 1,320-foot finish line, so no spectators will be shortchanged. "

That writer should speak for himself.

 

[Bobby]

and what's that about taking the 'interim' tag off of it?

 

[clock guy]

The system change is easy. It has:

A Start
Intermediate 1 timer (60')
Intermediate 2 timer (330')
Speed start 1 to be used with intermediate 3 timer
Intermediate 3 timer (660')
Intermediate 4 timer (1000')
Speed start 2 to be used with finish timer
Finish timer (1320)

we are taking a simple approach to this right now. The cables down the track have spare pairs in them, we mount the new IR at 934' mark and use one of the spair pairs to get the data to the tower,
In TF and FC we will electronicaly switch the 934' and 1000' timers to the Speed start 2 and finish timer inputs to the computer so the 1000 finish will show up on the same line on time slips as 1/4 mile finish,

All outputs to score boards, to TV, to Media etc, will be on the same data stream codes.

1000 mph will only be in use for TF and FC no other class

 

[Bob]

According to Jeff Foster (you know, the guy who does all the work on the timing system) most of the work is already done. The way the data stream is sent, the software calculates the speed based on markers in the stream so there is no change needed for that. They will need to make a change in which ET is reported, but that's a pretty simple change and knowing Larry, it's already done. Incremental times are all kept in a database, it would take literally minutes if that long to figure out the 1000' ET record. Ask Bob Orme, he probably already did it by now. The have no way to know what the speed record is since there has never been a speed trap at 1000', but no points are rewarded for that anyway so it really doesn't matter. By no means am I an expert, but I know enough that when they say it's no big deal to change the system for 1000' racing, I believe them.

I would be looking for 1000' record fuel class ET's, but national events are covered using a server laptop that two reporters (or three or four of us, depending on the event) network into. The data is stored on the server laptop, so none of it is on my computer. We archive everything, so if the NHRA wants to begin this transition with pre-established 1000' national records, it can be done. I haven't read anything that indicates one way or the other as to whether the NHRA wants to start fresh, almost like these are new classes, or if they want to start with pre-established records. I'm sure we'll find out soon!

 

[Bob]

"The grandstands at the Morrison track stop well before the 1,320-foot finish line, so no spectators will be shortchanged. "

That writer should speak for himself.

Not meaning to speak for Mike, but I'd assume he meant that since the main scoreboards are located at the 1320' finish line, those sitting at 1000' (the grandstands on the spectator side of the track end just about right at the 1000' mark) will still be able to see the times posted on those scoreboards. Even then, Bandimere is kinda unique in that they have a set of scoreboards on the front face of the tower, and another set on the back of the tower viewable from the staging lanes. There's more numbers flying around that place than inside the Powerball ping-pong ball machine!

I'm gonna predict that those seats at the end of the spectator side grandstands will suddenly become very popular.

 

[Bob]

and what's that about taking the 'interim' tag off of it?

Fuel cars running to 1000' for the rest of this season. I think John initially thought his track might have been singled out for this change.

 

[clwill]

The system change is easy. It has:

A Start
Intermediate 1 timer (60')
Intermediate 2 timer (330')
Speed start 1 to be used with intermediate 3 timer
Intermediate 3 timer (660')
Intermediate 4 timer (1000')
Speed start 2 to be used with finish timer
Finish timer (1320)

we are taking a simple approach to this right now. The cables down the track have spare pairs in them, we mount the new IR at 934' mark and use one of the spair pairs to get the data to the tower,
In TF and FC we will electronicaly switch the 934' and 1000' timers to the Speed start 2 and finish timer inputs to the computer so the 1000 finish will show up on the same line on time slips as 1/4 mile finish,

All outputs to score boards, to TV, to Media etc, will be on the same data stream codes.

1000 mph will only be in use for TF and FC no other class

Thanks for the explanation, I think I get it. So you'll have no 660' speed at these events for people running the full 1320', right? That seems like a pretty small price to pay... and an expedient way to get this done on short notice.

 

[clock guy]

1/8 will speeds will still be there for everyone.
we use the 1/4 ET and speed inputs for the 1000 ft data

 

[kd]

I say lets strap good ol JOHN in one of these babies...HANG the throttle OPEN...CUT the chute lines...Have an Ignitor (to be SURE its on FIRE by 1250!).....HAVE SAIL OVER HIS DIRT BURM...DOWN INTO THE SPORTSMAN PITS BELOW!!!

IF Scotts accident WAS in Denver, and NOT englishtown...COULD have been WAY UGLIER than it was.

JOHN B. ...do your job.
Put your suitcase beside Tom and Grahams, TAKE your CUT, ...AND
SHUT UP PLEASE!