Eddie Krawiec 6.77@200?

[Rat]

And you wonder why you cop it on here!! I want to say more but the ignorance of your last comment has pissed me off enough. Instead of focussing on your stat book, perhaps you might want to do some research in Drag Bike racing history before shooting your mouth!!

Oh Mike how I missed you. What ignorance? It's amazing anytime I disagree with you i'm ignorant, Keep it up. Infact, any disagreement I see you in on here with others members the other member is also ignorant. I guess I should talk to the guy that knows everything about the class. (oh wait I am doing that now) Getting back to the point ignorance of my last comment, explain it big man. Show me that your not ignorant and you know anything about what your talking about other than being a grump. Put up or shut up!

Mr. Bryce is making the biggest noise of all when he should be worrying about running mid 80's instead of mid 90's. There are many bikes better than his right now and V & H is not the problem. Give V & H any motor, they are gonna kick your ass and you guys just like to keep running with this evil exclusivity. They got this motor they developed out their and so they been winning ever since. It's cause they win too much right? Look at AJPE and all his amazing stuff. Did no one ***** at the AJ/Shoe dominance because AJ makes his parts availible? Everyone would be crying if those parts were not availiable and guess what? It wasn't the parts. They should not have to let it be availiable. Sounds like if anything, quit crying about this to V&H when you should really be crying to the NHRA. They must not be doing enough. It's not what they have and what they don't, it's that the NHRA is not doing enough to level it, that's all it is. I too even agree, NHRA sucks if they dont do something following today because it's quite obvious it's gonna be harley final.

It seems to me that V&H are not evil, it's the NHRA that has failed the fans in making it a level class. NHRA should have to answer to this not the 2 teams

 

[elvis]

You really don't understand the problem do ya Pat?!? You have not a clue.

 

[Rat]

You really don't understand the problem do ya Pat?!? You have not a clue.

Yea I understand it fully and all you guys and George Bryce could cry up a river. It's not about what they have, it's not. So what if no one else is allowed to make their own, or buy it; it really has nothing to do with the main problem and that's what all of YOU are IGNORANT about. Leave the teams alone it's NOT ABOUT THEM. It would be nice if it was allowed to be bought or reproduced, but it's not and all this *****in and moaning about what they have is really nothing but wasting your time. The NHRA has failed you in parity, it's far too uneven right now and the NHRA just so happens to always take too long with the whole parity thing in PSM. It's nobody but the NHRA that your disgust needs to be taken too. All it is, is a matter of balance and right now the NHRA is horrible at it. Even when it does get fixed, you guys will never be happy anyway until the NHRA bans V&H from competition or straps a 100 pound weight on the bike at all times. V&H will have a team final today so get ready to throw up. Why don't we just stop all the crap and make it a spec class? Happy? No? Of course not.

 

[the zone]

Here is the problem in a nut shell Patrick. I think you may understand after reading this.

The Suzuki and likely to a lesser extent the Buell, have pretty well maxed out their potential with the rules they are afforded at this time. It is sort of like a blown TAD. Those guys have used the same combination and the expertise that the CC have evolved for four decades. and their improvements are miniscule as in thous of a second. Maybe one hundredth every few years. (an example of that is the fact that Ken Perry ran a 5.255 in 2006 and they have not run better than a 5.245 since then. It is the same for PSM. The improvements found with the given rules for the Suzuki are miniscule. While the potential for improvements in HD is untapped. And having only one team with the technology afforded in NHRA for Harleys is not fair. Everyone wants to be on a level playing field, and not only the perception but the reality is the field is not level and the availability for HD parts is not there as well.

Dean

 

[mike]

Patrick,

I've tried to be kind in the past, but not only are you full of yourself, you don't have a clue!!!! Like I said, put the stat book down and look up your racing history. Your comment in saying George Bryce has no right to speak up shows complete ignorance to a man who has set multiple records, and won multiple titles. I believe he's earned his right to have a say.

Just for the record, I've refrained from commenting on a number of your posts, because at the end of the day you can't argue and win with an idiot.

 

[e]

.....Your post just about says it all Mike.....Like wise I've just tried to ignore Patricks refusual to see what is actually happening and not post anything myself.....But just had to jump in and agree with your thoughts................E

 

[elvis]

Good post Mr. Murdoch.
And Pat, I do not want V&H banned, unfairly sanctioned, etc...I want as many different brands in PSM as possible. I remember when there was nothing but all Suzuki's trying to qualify for a field and it sucked. It is the death knell for a class when 1 brand dominates. But NHRA won't let anybody BUT V&H play with Harleys. THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM! Please try to get that in your head.
And for you to bash George Bryce shows how big of a sausage you really are.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

 

[Rat]

Good post Mr. Murdoch.
And Pat, I do not want V&H banned, unfairly sanctioned, etc...I want as many different brands in PSM as possible. I remember when there was nothing but all Suzuki's trying to qualify for a field and it sucked. It is the death knell for a class when 1 brand dominates. But NHRA won't let anybody BUT V&H play with Harleys. THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM! Please try to get that in your head.
And for you to bash George Bryce shows how big of a sausage you really are.


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

I never once bashed him based on his career and what he has done. I bashed him for complaining when his program this year is not even up to par yet.

.....Your post just about says it all Mike.....Like wise I've just tried to ignore Patricks refusual to see what is actually happening and not post anything myself.....But just had to jump in and agree with your thoughts................E

Thanks and I got words for you, but i'll save them. Only an idiot jumps in to bash.

Patrick,

I've tried to be kind in the past, but not only are you full of yourself, you don't have a clue!!!! Like I said, put the stat book down and look up your racing history. Your comment in saying George Bryce has no right to speak up shows complete ignorance to a man who has set multiple records, and won multiple titles. I believe he's earned his right to have a say.

Just for the record, I've refrained from commenting on a number of your posts, because at the end of the day you can't argue and win with an idiot.

Don't twist my words around your as bad as the news. I never once took a shot at his accomplishments so dont bring it up. Don't worry Mike, I always known your the biggest arrogant idiot because the second anyone ever disagrees with you they don't know what they are talking about. The second anyone says something you don't like you turn in to this.

I understand it fully, there is nothing more to understand, They are not going to release the equipment just like there not going back to 1320 (Mike called me an idiot for making a thread about trying to return to 1320 safely, so who's the idiot?) It's all about NHRA needing to make parity.

I am right at the end of the day because it should not really matter what they have and what the others lack, NHRA is not doing enough to level the field and how come nobody is putting the NHRA out on the spot, instead it's bash V&H and guys like me. It needs to go to the hands of the NHRA. Where's the push?

Also Mike, I don't give a crap if you hate me. I post what I post. I am allowed to say what I want to say and I lost count how many times someone with a view opposite of yours gets disrepected. Can you ever argue without insulting? This is not your board so who made you the cop that gets to decide who is an idiot and what point of view is stupid. You can't accept a view that does not agree with you and kisses your own a s s. It's pitiful. You go your way, i'll go mine.

 

[Joker]

Patrick, when your book comes out can I have an autographed copy?

 

[Rat]

Patrick, when your book comes out can I have an autographed copy?

Yea, that's 5,000 dollars more. I know your not serious.

 

[twostep]

Pat,

I'm a really simple guy, and to me, the solution appears simple enough. NHRA needs to allow ALL V-twin engines, in other words, the Buells, to run 4-valve, DOHC designs or allow NONE of them to. NHRA (and HD) also need to allow anyone interested in running a Harley Davidson access to the same one-off factory pieces that Vance and Hines has access to.

I don't believe Vance and Hines should personally be blamed for the lack of parity (although I'm sure they don't mind), nor do I believe they should be forced to sell the parts they themselves develop for their own bikes to others.

 

[sdwarf36]

"" I remember when there was nothing but all Suzuki's trying to qualify for a field and it sucked.""
And in the years Star wasn't selling engines, you had 16 V+H motors in the field. ( Now its 5? 6?)
I like ice cream. I hate pumpkin flavored ice cream. I'm not going to start hating ALL ice cream just 'cause theres pumpkin ice cream out there.
I just hope they put some more weight on the HD's sooner rather than later.

 

[Rat]

Pat,

I'm a really simple guy, and to me, the solution appears simple enough. NHRA needs to allow ALL V-twin engines, in other words, the Buells, to run 4-valve, DOHC designs or allow NONE of them to. NHRA (and HD) also need to allow anyone interested in running a Harley Davidson access to the same one-off factory pieces that Vance and Hines has access to.

I don't believe Vance and Hines should personally be blamed for the lack of parity (although I'm sure they don't mind), nor do I believe they should be forced to sell the parts they themselves develop for their own bikes to others.

See this man gets it. Vance and Hines are not to blame, but of course it's a major compliment to them to say, "your program is too good and we hate you." The one to blame is the NHRA for addressing the issue in a way that teams are not just wasting money and time competing in an unfair class. All Vance and Hines are doing are playing within the limits of breaking the rules and it's not right to be mad at them, I find it hard to believe they BOUGHT the rulebook. Point your fingers at Glendora. The team itself should be free of banter and not have to release a thing. It's the nature of the sport though. Whenever a team has an advantage people open the rulebooks and try to pick the team apart.

"" I remember when there was nothing but all Suzuki's trying to qualify for a field and it sucked.""
And in the years Star wasn't selling engines, you had 16 V+H motors in the field. ( Now its 5? 6?)
I like ice cream. I hate pumpkin flavored ice cream. I'm not going to start hating ALL ice cream just 'cause theres pumpkin ice cream out there.
I just hope they put some more weight on the HD's sooner rather than later.

You have to go back to the days of Rob Korn. He was one of the original HD guys trying to break into the fields. I would think you could credit him and Dave Feazell for getting HD into PSM. They had several years of DNQ's before again happend running 80's when the magic was in the 20's.

Bottom line: The class is good, the racing is good except when you start throwing unchallenged harleys into it. It's not lets make them give there equipment to other teams, it's more accuse the NHRA of not having the level playing field you want to see. I guarantee you the NHRA will respond to the class after this weekend and if they don't, Glendora has an even longer list of problems.

 

[stanzig44]

Yes, I believe the blame is on NHRA for all this.

I think the end of this article that Brent posted earlier really hits it on the head.

In case nobody read it, I felt it worthy to quote it below -

"There is no equal representation between the three bike brands competing in the class. What I am saying is this:

The V&H Harley-Davidson team is the only brand competing in the class that has constant representation and a working relationship with the NHRA. Suzuki has no consistent representation or a working relationship with the NHRA, and Buell, as a company, does not even exist anymore.

So what’s the big deal? Because the NHRA will not discuss any rule changes unless the request comes directly from the brand manufacturer for the motorcycle requesting the change.

Case-in-point number one: the Suzuki teams tried on their own just a few years ago, to get the NHRA to change the rules and allow for the use of the stroker crankshaft. As hard as they tried, the NHRA would not at allow the change to take place. The fact was that, until the teams were able to get Suzuki themselves to submit a request in writing, did the NHRA change the rules an allow them to use the stroker crankshaft.

Case-in-point number two: the Buell’s, who have zero representation, turned towards George Smith of S&S to represent the Brand in 2010, to fill the vacuum left by Buell. As the bike really is more an S&S than it ever was a Buell, S&S was the most logical choice to represent the brand, and fulfill the needs of the teams running an S&S Buell by giving them the representation they so desperately needed. They took their request along with George Smith to the NHRA Vice President of Technical Operations, Glen Gray at Las Vegas, in 2010. They provided it to him in written form as requested. He ran it up the flag pole, and the NHRA Senior Vice President of Racing Operations, Graham Light shot it down cold, continuing to leave the brand with zero representation.

So tell me how can you have parity when you do not even have equal, if any for some, representation for each brand running in the class.

What there needs to be here is an open process; one that is both equal and fair. Not one that is flown so far below everyone’s radar, that the rest of the class never even knows about the rule change until it is approved by the NHRA.

Fair and equal representation for all brands competing in PSM. Representation that will speak for the teams, and the needs of the riders competing with that brand’s motorcycle. Representatives that can work closely with the NHRA technical department to very easily achieve parity within the class by doing so.

Unfortunately, in this editors opinion, what you have now is the same old status quo of: one brand that has the sole representation and the ability to easily have rule changes made in their favor, over two other brands that have none.

MS&S"

 

[sdwarf36]

Yea-that sums it up. But even if you did have a rep-NHRA could have you "bring us the witches broom" like they've done in the past.

 

[Rajunz]

The Harley's seem like they can put a 10th of a second on the field at will. They're just playing with the competition, and the horsepower advantage is obvious by the big mph.

The NHRA definitely needs to address this before the next race.

 

[Rat]

The Harley's seem like they can put a 10th of a second on the field at will. They're just playing with the competition, and the horsepower advantage is obvious by the big mph.

The NHRA definitely needs to address this before the next race.

1000% NHRA needs to release a statement today and I don't know what they are waiting for. And for the record I dont take back anything that I said, I just can't see why some people are clearly popping blood vessels over my opinion when all you gotta do is read. From day # 1 I been defending V&H because it's not there problem and I believe it rests in NHRA's hands and they should be hearing all issues over it. Honestly I feel the NHRA has been really really late with doing what's right as something should of been done mid season last year.

 

[Rajunz]

1000% NHRA needs to release a statement today and I don't know what they are waiting for. And for the record I dont take back anything that I said, I just can't see why some people are clearly popping blood vessels over my opinion when all you gotta do is read. From day # 1 I been defending V&H because it's not there problem and I believe it rests in NHRA's hands and they should be hearing all issues over it. Honestly I feel the NHRA has been really really late with doing what's right as something should of been done mid season last year.

I have to say, Patrick is right on this one guys (uhg, did I just say that?)
It's the sanctioning body's job to keep parity in the class, it's the team's and racer's jobs to extract every once of performance out of the rules given to them.

 

[Joker]

From George Bryce today:

Congrats for what? Winning with a stacked deck? I just dont see how anyone can think a win by HD is worth celebrating. Lets say the Summit Pro Stock team was allowed to run 820 ci engines which nobody else was allowed to run, and everybody else had to run 500 ci engines, and the Summit team were winning all the races. Would that be impressive? Absolutely not !!! Until everyone can run the same equipment that the HD's do, and the HD's continue to win, I can't see how any congrats is deserved.

Sorry for the spoiler alert!!!!

Here is a new one...Eddie and Andrew win all 16 races in 2012...or if either goofs up some one else won 1 or 2.

Facts..there are only 2 bikes with 4 valves per cylinder...they got 1st and 2nd today....Out of 25 teams they are the only riders/team ALLOWED to have 4 valves per cylinder.
They are the ONLY team allowed to have Harleys
You cant even buy a Vrod body.....
YOU cant buy an engine...even if you own Harley dealerships...

We sold Hector, Matt and other 160 inch 2 valve, pushrod bikes and engines...and to anyone that wants one.
FACT: NHRA told us we HAD to or we CANT race.......

Fact: after Eddie beat us by .24 in 2nd round NHRA tech came over and tore our engine down to check to see if we are legal WTF!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rat]

From George Bryce today:

Congrats for what? Winning with a stacked deck? I just dont see how anyone can think a win by HD is worth celebrating. Lets say the Summit Pro Stock team was allowed to run 820 ci engines which nobody else was allowed to run, and everybody else had to run 500 ci engines, and the Summit team were winning all the races. Would that be impressive? Absolutely not !!! Until everyone can run the same equipment that the HD's do, and the HD's continue to win, I can't see how any congrats is deserved.

Sorry for the spoiler alert!!!!

Here is a new one...Eddie and Andrew win all 16 races in 2012...or if either goofs up some one else won 1 or 2.

Facts..there are only 2 bikes with 4 valves per cylinder...they got 1st and 2nd today....Out of 25 teams they are the only riders/team ALLOWED to have 4 valves per cylinder.
They are the ONLY team allowed to have Harleys
You cant even buy a Vrod body.....
YOU cant buy an engine...even if you own Harley dealerships...

We sold Hector, Matt and other 160 inch 2 valve, pushrod bikes and engines...and to anyone that wants one.
FACT: NHRA told us we HAD to or we CANT race.......

Fact: after Eddie beat us by .24 in 2nd round NHRA tech came over and tore our engine down to check to see if we are legal WTF!!!!!!!!!

That actually is really stupid for NHRA's sake to tear them down. It looks like as I said before NHRA has another thing to add to it's list of problems. I think it is pretty insane how the NHRA is handling this by not saying a word and then asking a bike that runs a 6.99 against a 6.76 to tear down. I know it's there whole "random and undiscriminating tear down selection," but something needs to be done because in a class that is based on parity it's insulting to use that word when such an advantage was had.

Either way it's the NHRA that needs to act. Just because there doing what there doing does not make V&H crooks.