Dual TD Crash Caused by Water at the Finish Line (1 Viewer)

[Jeff]

The water is not visible until you run a vacuum over the top of it .... and there is a vacuum under the bodies of all fast cars. You don't know it's going to happen until it happens. I understand this track is a known weeper .... and if the sun comes out the water comes up really quickly (until it's gone). It's a tough situation, and its not fair at all that you guys think these guys knew this was going to happen.

The ditches next to the track are not very deep and they've got standing water. Generally, that is the water level right under the track too. Better to have deeper ditches and pumps to get the water away from the track. Houston does a pretty good job of trying to deal with this same type of situation.

 

[Jimbo]

Jeff White: Your comment

The water is not visible until you run a vacuum over the top of it .... and there is a vacuum under the bodies of all fast cars. You don't know it's going to happen until it happens. I understand this track is a known weeper .... and if the sun comes out the water comes up really quickly (until it's gone). It's a tough situation, and its not fair at all that you guys think these guys knew this was going to happen.

Jeff my question is has this same thing happened in the past to other racers at this track who were the first cars making a run?

If the track is a known weeper I would assume this is not the first time this has happened.

Jim Hill
http://www.nostalgicracingdecals.com

 

[glofria]

Drag racing is a dangerous sport period. I know this, many of you know this and if you don't, you should. Otherwise, the stands are the best place for you.

I was there when the life flight helicopter took off from Sears Point with my dad inside after he hit the wall so hard it knocked him unconscious. About 100 ft.out the car hit some oil sprayed on the track from another car that was 3 pairs in front of us. No one saw the oil so it was not cleaned up. We did not blame anyone else, but blamed ourselves instead for not checking the roll-out of the rear tires before making the pass. Since then we've made some changes to our operation including adding a belly pan under the engine (and a diaper too) to protect us and others who race too.

Is it me or is today's society always looking to blame others for their own misfortunes? If I was there, I would have sat in the stands or send someone I trust to watch the track being dried. But again that is just me. One thing that is too logical is not to be the first pair out on a green track. Especially after it rains.

 

[Jeff]

Gino, in TD (in which my wife runs roughly 15 NHRA events a year) the NHRA names the first three pairs and tells everyone their lane for each qualifying pass (for the national events). At least they have since we've been running it in nationals (we have not run our first 2016 national). I think all of us are "too logical" to want to be the first pair on a green track (or even a track that has a huge coat of nitro clutch dust on top of it).

Yes we know it is dangerous. Yes, we know it is our choice, and our responsibility to know whether or not to light the pre-stage light. And yes, we've watched people in our class leave in a helicopter a few times. Very few of us are daredevils, we try to quantify risk and accept it or reject it.

On a somewhat related note, did you happen to see the picture of Jeff Teuton's rig on his trip back from Gainesville. I think about the steering tires in our rig way too often, change them way too soon, it helps keep us alive and gives my faith more conviction every day.

 

[glofria]

Jeff, sorry for the misunderstanding. My comments were not directed towards you, rather to compliment what you wrote before. It seems to me that some here are quick to point fingers and place blame else were. And I am not saying those involved in this accident are blaming others either. Just wished some here would stop and think about blaming NHRA, the Safety Safari or any other track safety personnel first.

I'm sorry I didn't know NHRA has a set run order as you've explain. We have never ran an NHRA event and most likely newer will. Well that's not really true if you want to count the CHRR. We find the associate races more relaxing and inviting, but we take what we do seriously. We have yet to make it out this year either with our first race next month with the ANRA at Famoso.

I did see the one photo and that looked pretty bad. We inherited a 1981 Chevy C6500 Toterhome last year and I am in the process of restoring it. You can bet we will replace all tires before we take it out that's for damn sure. Best wishes to you and your wife for a safe 2016 race season.

 

[Randy]

I actually made a run in the rain in my TA/FC back in 1993 at Fuji International Speedway outside of Tokyo. It was actually more of a series of burnouts in the rain, but I did take the green. The water was coming in through the roof hatch and in the car from around the windows. We wrapped the ignition with trash bags. It's a long story, but there were 80,000 people in the stands according to the track who came to see us run and they were asking us to tow down the track in the rain before they called the event so the people could see the cars before sending them home with no rain checks, and no refunds. I refused and said we were going to make a run with the engine running because that's what the people paid for. The rest followed suit including Alan Dobson from Australia in the Castrol GTX car. As far as I know, no one I've ever heard of did what we did that day in the rain with any kind of high horsepower cars with slicks.

With slicks, even at slow speeds, on a wet track is like driving on wet ice or wet transmission fluid. I really had to pay attention even though I was expecting it. It takes literally nothing to swap ends and loose control of a car hydroplaning on a wet track with slicks. I couldn't carry any speed, nor did I try to, without the car sliding around. Those guys didn't stand a chance. Looking at the video they did very well to come out the way they did. After that I fully understood why they quickly shut the cars off when the drops appear on the windshields.

I remember second round at Topeka in 1999. We ran as the first pair and I was motioning to Rick Stewart who was the starter at the time that there was rain on the windshield. He shook his head, and told us to go. We smoked the tires. It wasn't letting up by the time third pair ran, which was Marc White against Jay Payne. Marc and Jay launched, Jay spun the tires hard about 50 feet out, went completely sideways, shot across the track, just missed the back of Marc White's car and t-boned the wall. Unfortunately that's when they decided maybe the track was too wet.

 

[FABMAN]

I actually made a run in the rain in my TA/FC back in 1993 at Fuji International Speedway outside of Tokyo. It was actually more of a series of burnouts in the rain, but I did take the green. The water was coming in through the roof hatch and in the car from around the windows. We wrapped the ignition with trash bags. It's a long story, but there were 80,000 people in the stands according to the track who came to see us run and they were asking us to tow down the track in the rain before they called the event so the people could see the cars before sending them home with no rain checks, and no refunds. I refused and said we were going to make a run with the engine running because that's what the people paid for. The rest followed suit including Alan Dobson from Australia in the Castrol GTX car. As far as I know, no one I've ever heard of did what we did that day in the rain with any kind of high horsepower cars with slicks.

With slicks, even at slow speeds, on a wet track is like driving on wet ice or wet transmission fluid. I really had to pay attention even though I was expecting it. It takes literally nothing to swap ends and loose control of a car hydroplaning on a wet track with slicks. I couldn't carry any speed, nor did I try to, without the car sliding around. Those guys didn't stand a chance. Looking at the video they did very well to come out the way they did. After that I fully understood why they quickly shut the cars off when the drops appear on the windshields.

I remember second round at Topeka in 1999. We ran as the first pair and I was motioning to Rick Stewart who was the starter at the time that there was rain on the windshield. He shook his head, and told us to go. We smoked the tires. It wasn't letting up by the time third pair ran, which was Marc White against Jay Payne. Marc and Jay launched, Jay spun the tires hard about 50 feet out, went completely sideways, shot across the track, just missed the back of Marc White's car and t-boned the wall. Unfortunately that's when they decided maybe the track was too wet.

i remember that race, first sign water turn them off.

 

[None]

I actually made a run in the rain in my TA/FC back in 1993 at Fuji International Speedway outside of Tokyo. It was actually more of a series of burnouts in the rain, but I did take the green. The water was coming in through the roof hatch and in the car from around the windows. We wrapped the ignition with trash bags. It's a long story, but there were 80,000 people in the stands according to the track who came to see us run and they were asking us to tow down the track in the rain before they called the event so the people could see the cars before sending them home with no rain checks, and no refunds. I refused and said we were going to make a run with the engine running because that's what the people paid for. The rest followed suit including Alan Dobson from Australia in the Castrol GTX car. As far as I know, no one I've ever heard of did what we did that day in the rain with any kind of high horsepower cars with slicks.

With slicks, even at slow speeds, on a wet track is like driving on wet ice or wet transmission fluid. I really had to pay attention even though I was expecting it. It takes literally nothing to swap ends and loose control of a car hydroplaning on a wet track with slicks. I couldn't carry any speed, nor did I try to, without the car sliding around. Those guys didn't stand a chance. Looking at the video they did very well to come out the way they did. After that I fully understood why they quickly shut the cars off when the drops appear on the windshields.

I remember second round at Topeka in 1999. We ran as the first pair and I was motioning to Rick Stewart who was the starter at the time that there was rain on the windshield. He shook his head, and told us to go. We smoked the tires. It wasn't letting up by the time third pair ran, which was Marc White against Jay Payne. Marc and Jay launched, Jay spun the tires hard about 50 feet out, went completely sideways, shot across the track, just missed the back of Marc White's car and t-boned the wall. Unfortunately that's when they decided maybe the track was too wet.

At least Rick Stewart being gone from the starting line is one of the better things to happen to the NHRA.

 

[Nick Name]

My shop is at Willow Springs Raceway. First time it was raining pretty good and I thought I heard race cars running, I looked out the door and the big track had at least a dozen cars on it racing around. Then I realized that road racers race in the rain, and the only way to learn how to do it is to go to the track when it is raining and practice.

Now we will hear cars up there on almost any rainy day.

 

[Nick Name]

I actually made a run in the rain in my TA/FC back in 1993 at Fuji International Speedway outside of Tokyo. It was actually more of a series of burnouts in the rain, but I did take the green. The water was coming in through the roof hatch and in the car from around the windows. We wrapped the ignition with trash bags. It's a long story, but there were 80,000 people in the stands according to the track who came to see us run and they were asking us to tow down the track in the rain before they called the event so the people could see the cars before sending them home with no rain checks, and no refunds. I refused and said we were going to make a run with the engine running because that's what the people paid for. The rest followed suit including Alan Dobson from Australia in the Castrol GTX car. As far as I know, no one I've ever heard of did what we did that day in the rain with any kind of high horsepower cars with slicks.

With slicks, even at slow speeds, on a wet track is like driving on wet ice or wet transmission fluid. I really had to pay attention even though I was expecting it. It takes literally nothing to swap ends and loose control of a car hydroplaning on a wet track with slicks. I couldn't carry any speed, nor did I try to, without the car sliding around. Those guys didn't stand a chance. Looking at the video they did very well to come out the way they did. After that I fully understood why they quickly shut the cars off when the drops appear on the windshields.

I remember second round at Topeka in 1999. We ran as the first pair and I was motioning to Rick Stewart who was the starter at the time that there was rain on the windshield. He shook his head, and told us to go. We smoked the tires. It wasn't letting up by the time third pair ran, which was Marc White against Jay Payne. Marc and Jay launched, Jay spun the tires hard about 50 feet out, went completely sideways, shot across the track, just missed the back of Marc White's car and t-boned the wall. Unfortunately that's when they decided maybe the track was too wet.

I was there for one of those events, but it wasn't raining. They had Shirley, an alky funnycar from Idaho ( Weaver?), the jet limo, etc. That was the year that the Japanese funnycar driver had a bad fire on the top end, and there was no one to go down and help him.

Fuji was a blast. Too bad they don't do that anymore.

 

[Randy]

I was there for one of those events, but it wasn't raining. They had Shirley, an alky funnycar from Idaho ( Weaver?), the jet limo, etc. That was the year that the Japanese funnycar driver had a bad fire on the top end, and there was no one to go down and help him.

Fuji was a blast. Too bad they don't do that anymore.

We were fortunate enough to go in both 1993 and 1994. Two weeks each trip. We also ran at Oita Aso in Kyushu, Japan.

 

[CrewMan]

At least Rick Stewart being gone from the starting line is one of the better things to happen to the NHRA.

Amen to that...similar situation like Randy's happened to us at Columbus in Super Comp. Car in front of us, very notable winning driver, sprayed some oil just after the stop kicked in...there was no way he could know....same thing tried to get them to clean it up....and got the "this is my starting line I'm the boss and if you don't like it leave speech"...then went out there and blew the tires off in the same spot.

Columbus was known to have weeping issues too.

 

[DrRocket]

On a somewhat related note, did you happen to see the picture of Jeff Teuton's rig on his trip back from Gainesville. I think about the steering tires in our rig way too often, change them way too soon, it helps keep us alive and gives my faith more conviction every day.

A link for you: http://www.dragracingscene.com/news/accident-jeff-teuton/

That looked really ugly. Glad to hear everyone involved will be OK.

 

[CJDeeds]

I actually made a run in the rain in my TA/FC back in 1993 at Fuji International Speedway outside of Tokyo. It was actually more of a series of burnouts in the rain, but I did take the green. The water was coming in through the roof hatch and in the car from around the windows. We wrapped the ignition with trash bags. It's a long story, but there were 80,000 people in the stands according to the track who came to see us run and they were asking us to tow down the track in the rain before they called the event so the people could see the cars before sending them home with no rain checks, and no refunds. I refused and said we were going to make a run with the engine running because that's what the people paid for. The rest followed suit including Alan Dobson from Australia in the Castrol GTX car. As far as I know, no one I've ever heard of did what we did that day in the rain with any kind of high horsepower cars with slicks.

With slicks, even at slow speeds, on a wet track is like driving on wet ice or wet transmission fluid. I really had to pay attention even though I was expecting it. It takes literally nothing to swap ends and loose control of a car hydroplaning on a wet track with slicks. I couldn't carry any speed, nor did I try to, without the car sliding around. Those guys didn't stand a chance. Looking at the video they did very well to come out the way they did. After that I fully understood why they quickly shut the cars off when the drops appear on the windshields.

I remember second round at Topeka in 1999. We ran as the first pair and I was motioning to Rick Stewart who was the starter at the time that there was rain on the windshield. He shook his head, and told us to go. We smoked the tires. It wasn't letting up by the time third pair ran, which was Marc White against Jay Payne. Marc and Jay launched, Jay spun the tires hard about 50 feet out, went completely sideways, shot across the track, just mi ssed the back of Marc White's car and t-boned the wall. Unfortunately that's when they decided maybe the track was too wet.

Randy, I remember that Topeka race- my little sister actually ended up with the pipes off of Jay's car from that crash. The second Rick told them to fire up I had a bad feeling in my stomach and I was watching from the stands. I can't even imagine what it was like from a driver's perspective. Rain is nothing to play with and you combine that with a track like Topeka, which at that point was still a bad weeper, and you have a recipe for disaster. Thankfully they did some modifications when they replaced the racing surface after that season but you still have to really check it for a couple of days after a big storm. Sounds like a similar situation occurred here.

 

[Rajunz]

.......I remember second round at Topeka in 1999. We ran as the first pair and I was motioning to Rick Stewart who was the starter at the time that there was rain on the windshield. He shook his head, and told us to go.......

I had to LOL when reading this. Did you wiggle your fingers like he used to always do?

 

[none]

Jay actually hit the wall in front of me and flew up in the air. Part of my car went under his. Jay was fine,his car not so much. Not a scratch on ours. We went on to get our first national event win the next day.

 

[Randy]

Jay actually hit the wall in front of me and flew up in the air. Part of my car went under his. Jay was fine his, car not so much. Not a scratch on ours. We went on to get our first national event win the next day.

I was standing right behind you in your lane when the light went green. I still don't know how he missed you. Wild weekend when you consider what Scelzi went through. DT had a chunk of Scelzi's intake manifold land in his pit next to us. Coulda been ugly.