Current Bye Run Policy

[Slowpoke96z28]

All the bye run posts are old, so instead of getting flamed for bring an old one back, I'm creating this post to say I don't like the current policy. I can agree it's good for fans (per the math, they see more side by side racing supposedly), but I believe it compromises the integrity of the sport.

When there aren't full fields, I believe bye runs should happen in the first round, and they should be assigned to reward the highest qualifiers. 15 entrants, #1 gets a bye. 14 entrants, #1 and #2 should get bye runs, and so on. That doesn't happen, because the powers that be say it would be boring to fans. I think some research should be done there, but true or not isn't relevant here.

My point is now, #s 2, 3, etc don't always get the benefit earned by performance like #1 does, depending on the math. I believe that tarnishes the integrity. Then take what happened in PSM at Virginia this past weekend. We were watching a race where history could unfold. An entrant with the chance to win 10 straight national events in a row, besting Glidden's record. Not to take anything away from v&h, but the current policy gives NO ONE a 1st round bye, one whole 1st round race is dropped, and there's an automatic 2nd round bye, so winning the 1st is a free trip to the semis. Then, 14 had to #1 instead of #3, punishing him (in essence, by making him race a statistically tougher opponent) simply because more PSM teams didn't pull to the race. That's not #14's fault that more teams didn't show up. Lastly, putting names to faces, you MAKE Herrera have to beat Bostick, and the reward is a free pass to the semis. Gadson won his 1st round also, but he gets no free pass to the semis. THAT IS NOT RIGHT!!! Not only does he not get the bye that the other side of the tree got, he NO BYE AT ALL. Where's the parity/integrity in that? He had to physically beat opponents to make it to the semis, Herrera only one. So in a few different ways to a few different competitors, the current policy is unfair imo.

The net is Herrera has won 10 straight races in a row, which is awesome, and which I believe is probably the same outcome with the bye run policy being what I think it should. So I'm not saying anything against that. What I'm saying is there's the possibility that an asterisk will be by that record in some people's minds. The argument can be made that he didn't do it "straight up" or fair and square. If the policy was done like I said, no one can question it. A 1st round bye because of vehicle count, he can't control, and everyone present is benefitted and penalized equally by the vehicle count situation, which maintains integrity.

Go on and let me have it...

 

[Just Paul]

I lost a track championship to a guy that got 2 bye runs in one day at the last race of the season.

Decent field of cars, 30-40 on that day. He got the first round bye run by having the best reaction time in the last time trial which is how it works at a lot of places. By the time we got down to 3 cars, we had each had a bye at some point so one of us was going to get a second one. He got it, I lost that round, that was it. There was no ladder, a guy in the staging lanes pulled cards, best reaction time in the previous round gets the next bye if there are an odd number of cars. He earned it, but I gave him plenty of sh!t for it.

 

[z28]

All the bye run posts are old, so instead of getting flamed for bring an old one back, I'm creating this post to say I don't like the current policy. I can agree it's good for fans (per the math, they see more side by side racing supposedly), but I believe it compromises the integrity of the sport.

When there aren't full fields, I believe bye runs should happen in the first round, and they should be assigned to reward the highest qualifiers. 15 entrants, #1 gets a bye. 14 entrants, #1 and #2 should get bye runs, and so on. That doesn't happen, because the powers that be say it would be boring to fans. I think some research should be done there, but true or not isn't relevant here.

My point is now, #s 2, 3, etc don't always get the benefit earned by performance like #1 does, depending on the math. I believe that tarnishes the integrity. Then take what happened in PSM at Virginia this past weekend. We were watching a race where history could unfold. An entrant with the chance to win 10 straight national events in a row, besting Glidden's record. Not to take anything away from v&h, but the current policy gives NO ONE a 1st round bye, one whole 1st round race is dropped, and there's an automatic 2nd round bye, so winning the 1st is a free trip to the semis. Then, 14 had to #1 instead of #3, punishing him (in essence, by making him race a statistically tougher opponent) simply because more PSM teams didn't pull to the race. That's not #14's fault that more teams didn't show up. Lastly, putting names to faces, you MAKE Herrera have to beat Bostick, and the reward is a free pass to the semis. Gadson won his 1st round also, but he gets no free pass to the semis. THAT IS NOT RIGHT!!! Not only does he not get the bye that the other side of the tree got, he NO BYE AT ALL. Where's the parity/integrity in that? He had to physically beat opponents to make it to the semis, Herrera only one. So in a few different ways to a few different competitors, the current policy is unfair imo.

The net is Herrera has won 10 straight races in a row, which is awesome, and which I believe is probably the same outcome with the bye run policy being what I think it should. So I'm not saying anything against that. What I'm saying is there's the possibility that an asterisk will be by that record in some people's minds. The argument can be made that he didn't do it "straight up" or fair and square. If the policy was done like I said, no one can question it. A 1st round bye because of vehicle count, he can't control, and everyone present is benefitted and penalized equally by the vehicle count situation, which maintains integrity.

Go on and let me have it...

NHRA wants as many competitive runs as possible in round 1. The ladder is setup to do that based on # on contestants.

 

[none]

Not arguing, just asking. You think two bye runs in eliminations is better than one? I would rather see as many "races" as possible.

And your point that Chris Bostick had to run a tougher opponent really doesn't hold water. He qualified at 11.38 seconds. I dare say that had there been 2 more bikes, he would has been 16th and raced #1 anyway. He was going to be last with that time, whether there were 14 bikes or 24.

Alan

 

[Dennis]

Might be an unpopular opinion but...why not let the quickest round 1 loser come back for round two so there are no bye runs? The caveat being that the round 1 loser's points don't change but they can still race for the prize money. I mean yeah, the #1 guy/gal could lose a round to a first round loser but at least there'e racing with no bye runs.

Just spitballing here, if it's truly about the fan experience I'd wager 95% of the ticket paying fans don't care who wins the championship. They just want to see racing on the day they spent their hard-earned money to get into the track.

 

[Cliff]

Dennis, this used to be the norm years ago. If you won and broke, then low ET loser could come back and take yer place. Some drivers won a race after getting back in. Was called "the break rule".

 

[mick]

16 car fields in the pros have no byes ....... hit the easy button ....... from what i've heard, quite a few sportsman racers enjoy
the odd amount with a floating bye based on performance.
if there happens to be a 15 car field, is this the bracket used? where #1 does get the E1 bye?

 

[Slowpoke96z28]

Not arguing, just asking. You think two bye runs in eliminations is better than one? I would rather see as many "races" as possible.

And your point that Chris Bostick had to run a tougher opponent really doesn't hold water. He qualified at 11.38 seconds. I dare say that had there been 2 more bikes, he would has been 16th and raced #1 anyway. He was going to be last with that time, whether there were 14 bikes or 24.

Alan

This is a follow-up of a convo we had on Twitter a while back.

Idk if one bye run is better than two. Marketing people would have to poll the fans and see. I personally, even as a fan, would rather see two bye runs than one. I can focus more on the intricacies of a pass if im watching one vehicle. I can enjoy and appreciate how good Herrera is because my focus is on him totally. I can do the same with #2. Also, its easier to explain to a guest/newcomer. Imagine having out of town visitors that see the entire event from Q1 to E4. Imagine explaining the current bye run policy to them, making it make sense, WITHOUT mentioning the word fan or mentioning event time. Yea,this weekend, the fans saw more side by side PSM action, but were actually shorted an entire race. I realize that makes life easier for corporate and TV, and maybe the thought is the fans prefer it, or maybe it's the fans aren't smart enough to realize 1st round was only 7 passes vs 8. IDK. I BELIEVE though that none of that is more important than the integrity of the race. What good are the "races" they'd rather see vs byes when there's no integrity to them?

I guess part of the difference in opinions is people in drag racing are motivated by different things. Some it's money, some it's the feeling of G, some it's the family business, some it's personality (ie psychology of "winning" or "conquest") etc, etc. Those things make certain aspects of the show more important to one person vs another. Now I understand economics enough to know the NHRA can't exist without the fan. But drag racing can. It existed before, and will exist long after cars are museum relics. Until we humans figure out teleportation, there will always be drag racing. As long as we use a seedes ladder system, there will always be different ways to fill the ladder, and some will more maintain the essence of the best man demonstrating their dominance. To me, that's the most important thing in competition. When the competitor is crowned the best, there should be the least amount of "but this, that, & the other" or questions of "what would've happened if?" If that means two bye runs vs one side by side race, what fan would REALLY have a problem with that?

As for Bostick, it really isn't a matter of ifs. Scenarios can be if'd all day long. What if oehler, Tonglet, or Gladstone were there? Who's to say the ladder still falls with Bostick at #16? You can't say that. Thats, a totally different reality with infinite unknowns. Even the possibility that you're right though doesn't change the reality of what DID happen and it's impact on the integrity im speaking on. At least not the way I see it.

 

[PJ]

Byes during eliminations happen, doesn't bother me. I'd prefer them out of the way in earlier rounds.

What drives me nuts is during qualifying when you watch 2,3,4 singles in a row. I get that they line up based points or previous time, depending on the qualifying round. Plus the need to run in each lane, requires some juggling but I'd like to see another layer that makes 2 cars go down a priority, ideally leaving only a max of one single a session if there is a odd number of cars. Unless of course someone breaks, or in the final qualifing round someone pulls out once they make the field. Those can't be helped.
It's the single file passes to start a round that aggravate me.

 

[Chili]

Byes during eliminations happen, doesn't bother me. I'd prefer them out of the way in earlier rounds.

What drives me nuts is during qualifying when you watch 2,3,4 singles in a row. I get that they line up based points or previous time, depending on the qualifying round. Plus the need to run in each lane, requires some juggling but I'd like to see another layer that makes 2 cars go down a priority, ideally leaving only a max of one single a session if there is a odd number of cars. Unless of course someone breaks, or in the final qualifing round someone pulls out once they make the field. Those can't be helped.
It's the single file passes to start a round that aggravate me.

The mission race has caused there to be more singles in qualifying than years past. The race is a fun idea but there are consequences.