Big suggests changes (6 Viewers)

[Butch]

Nunzio, I agree on the milestones of the current racing. I remember Big's 250 at Ontario scared the hell out of him. The 5.93 by Snake at Indy. And in ProComp breaking into the 6s.
And how the current ProMods would kickass on the Alcohol cars and how the Alcohol cars today would easily beat the Nitro cars of a couple decades ago. Time marches on. But going to 1/8 mile after watching some of the IHRA races this year definitely kills the race to me. Going 1/8 mile thay might as well go to 100' because it's all done by then, no chance of running the opponent down and catching them in the lights.

 

[none]

You are never going to find a solution that everyone loves. Any change made will be met with resistence. This goes back a ways, but when the 3.20 gear rule was mandated it was met with tremendous pushback. The racers HATED it. Six months later the majority LOVED it. It was one less thing to factor in, and it also meant that the teams didn't have to own, maintain and swap three or four different rears. Now the only ways they can adjust the final drive is with tires. And believe it, they do.

Every Crew Chief that has been asked gives a solution that they already have ideas about how to ovrecome. I think the most honest answer was Lee Beard when he was asked how to slow them down. He said: "I have no idea, I spent my whole life trying to make them go faster."

I've talked before about Dale Armstrong's idea that they tested in Texas back when. I was there. He made three runs with low compression, resticted overdrive and ran 4.80s right at 300MPH and only squeezed one ring all day. Here's what everyone overlooks. He was TRYING to run safely without hurting it. Mission accomplished.

He wasn't racing. I asked point blank: "Would you run it the same with Bernstein in the other lane?" (He was working for Snake at the time) His response was: "Hell no! I would have to lean on it."

Why do they almost never blow up at a match race? Because it's not racing. The racing mentality is differrent.

Alan

 

[Litefoot]

Take the blowers off, my ass. I'd rather see them run 1/8 mile to keep the speeds at 300.

I realize the point you're making and how absurd it would be. Less wind and less juice are the only way to properly slow them. It's doable; Cruz Pedregon ran 4.25/285 (1000 feet) with a 426", small pump and (I think) 20% blower OD engine during testing back when NHRA was seriously considering slowing the cars. That's about a 4.95/300 pass to the 1320 and that's still a hell of a run. I could live with it.

Let's see opinions on this startup, burnout, dry hops and (early shutoff) wheelstand pass, back when blown nitro engines were doing well to crank out 3000hp. Little pumps, 6-71s and Crowerglides. Do you like it? Do you like the way it cackles; the dry hops? Do you miss it, despite the fact that a current Pro Mod is quicker? I do. About 15 years ago Del Worsham made a pass in a completely restored Blue Max (Mustang II body) on Friday Night at the Texas Motorplex, hops and all, and he absolutely brought the house down.

Here's the Blue Max, 43 years ago at OCIR:

I couldn’t agree more

 

[stitcherbob]

I agree with Big Daddy, but start a new Jr. Fuel class if the others don't want to change. Keep the big show cars for exhibition, but there will be more racers in the junior class because of cheaper costs.
I remember when Eddie Hill wasn't even tearing the heads off his motor unless a leak down test showed something.
TV coverage has suffered with 1000ft because I always was on the edge of my seat during the top end charge. Now TV doesn't get that on film anymore. Every time I see a close race I'm shocked that the winner wasn't the one that looked to be ahead. Had to see the finish line camera shot for proof.
Camera placement at the tracks has been crap the last few years too. And get rid of the superimposed adverts on the starting line!

 

[Litefoot]

Drag racing is a victim of its own success. By that I mean, we're in a performance milestone sport. We've been celebrating 340 mph runs all year. Somebody just went 3.38 @ 240 in the 1/8 in a door car. Not sure neutering the fuel cars so they are 300mph 1/4 mile cars is the answer, the wow factor would be gone. Remember, even though the fuel cars may have become outrageously fast, every other category has sped up a bunch too. I do miss the long billowy burnouts however. I've said this before, I believe Robert Hight said the current tires are a synthetic rubber compound, so they just smoke less. Not sure what the answer is. I'm ok with 1000ft for the fuel cars, if there's a way to 1) reduce the carnage 2) reduce the number of aborted runs. You would think there could be a tuneup that given the quality of today's components could create a bit less of a bomb and last much longer. But, I'm not a tuner of blow fuel motors, so who knows what the answer is.

Ass long as there is super glued tracks that can hold the tire to the track to parts failure points, they will still blow up

 

[Marchboom]

FWIW. Reduce the camshaft lift and possibly the duration. This would reduce the air/fuel amount and therefore reduce power. It would also reduce stress on the valve train, especially the springs. Retainers, keepers, rocker arms, etc would also be subjected to less stress. Intake valve failure (via failed keepers and retainers) cause many of those HUGE explosions.

And with the intake valve open for less time and a smaller lift, there would be no reason for these large pumps (less fuel). But the crew chiefs might jack up the blower boost to make up for the smaller amount of air/fuel getting past the smaller valve opening. That's where a new rule would have to be instituted to limit overdrive.

That's as far as my thinking takes me. I'm sure there are many nitro crew chiefs out there with better ideas. Would like to hear from them.

As stated by Nunzio Valerie Jr., "Drag racing is a victim of it's own success." is a very true statement. The FC and TF cars have backed themselves into a corner. Explosions, skyrocketing $$$ just to buy enough parts for a weekend, tire manufacturers voicing concerns to NHRA about tires reaching their safe limits, lack of sponsors, the possibility of spectators being injured or killed by flying parts, etc. are some of the issues that will necessitate engine changes.

 

[none]

John,

You might be surprised at what Nitro cam specs are. Compared to Pro Stock they are not radical at all.
Alan

 

[TSK]

Don’t forget that Don Prudhomme once said if the race was only to 60 feet, the crew chiefs would still find ways to explode the engine.
But, put to bed any talk of the fuel cars going back to racing a full quarter mile.
It’s not going to happen.

 

[none]

or the TAD teams might say, we're spending how much already to inject nitro? lets just put a blower on it and go pro.

Randy Meyer has been asked a billion times why not just buy a blower and race TF?

He said the only part he owns that could be used on a TF car is the mag drive.
Crank, rods, pistons, heads, cams, clutch, rear end, are just a few of the parts on an A/FD that cannot be used on a TF Car.

When Del Worsham made the switch from Alcohol to Nitro, he said that pistons were the only major change. But time marches on, and they now have specialized parts for each combination that are not compatible with anything else.

Alan

 

[mick]

...... has been asked a billion times why not just buy a blower and race TF?

understand completely. parts are not compatible. guess i should have said, the amount of money spent to go TAD racing, why not go pro and run for a few bucks more. many years ago allen hartley basically said this, for what he was spending in the TAD class (his old twin engined 'double vision' and then an injected nitro car)
it made sense for him to jump up to TF.

 

[Mike]

So there are more tire smokers. No thanks

No, make them drive the cars.

 

[none]

So there are more tire smokers. No thanks!

Don't they all have the power to smoke the tires now? What stops them form all smoking the tires every run now?
Alan

 

[Nappy]

Don't they all have the power to smoke the tires now? What stops them form all smoking the tires every run now?
Alan

Just my opinion, but they have already taken away some of the track prep. It seems like now on sunnier days there are more traction issues than before. If they are not loading the motor as well , then tire spin, dropped cylinders , explosions etc. Just my opinion though, there has to be a better solution to slow then down if that is needed. I haven't crewed on a nitro car for quite some time, but I have always been and will be a life long drag racing fan.

 

[Nunz]

understand completely. parts are not compatible. guess i should have said, the amount of money spent to go TAD racing, why not go pro and run for a few bucks more. many years ago allen hartley basically said this, for what he was spending in the TAD class (his old twin engined 'double vision' and then an injected nitro car)
it made sense for him to jump up to TF.

It's not "a few bucks more" to run TF vs. TAD. It's a huge leap.

 

[Axman]

It's not "a few bucks more" to run TF vs. TAD. It's a huge leap.

I think he may have meant the purse is a few bucks more