Nitromater
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Big inch turbo motors in Pro Mod on alky
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
Haha , yeah honetly I probably am wrong , but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying . I have a believe system of if you put your mind to it you can do anything .
Bill
Nitro Member
Joe Sherwood asked, >>>"Just how expensive do you guys want this sport to become?"
Joe, I think it's waaaaaay too expensive as it stands, and nitromethane is the reason it's so expensive.
Nitro is an expensive-to-buy fuel that destroys parts on a wholesale basis, causes horriffic explosions, is extremely difficult to control (tune), requires everything it affects, to be built super-strong, to the point that the cars are much heavier than they used to be. Pete Robinson built a blown Chevy Top Eliminator car that weighed less than 1,000 pounds.... and lived. Today's cars weigh more than twice that much.
Nitro is responsible for engines having to be torn down after every run, with several people working feverishly to ready the car for the next round; they don't work for nothing... The oil supply only lasts one run... contaminated.
But, you ask me "how expensive do you want this sport to become?"
It's already out of control and has been for years....
All I did was ask about the viability of turbos on large-displacement engines in Pro Mod, a changeover that would require the Roots blown teams to fabricate plumbing for two "hairdryers", the fuel system for such an induction system, and not a lot else. Same chassis; same basic engine; probably a different cam and clutch setup and not many other changes that would cost much, comparatively. I don't see this turbo-inspired P/M being an expensive car compared with the other (Roots) blown cars.
But, maybe that's not what Joe meant.
I wasn't even ADVOCATING that anybody build one; I was just carping about the lack of variety in a sport that used to THRIVE on variety.
Nobody's going to put a gun to anybody's head and coerce them into building a turbocharged Pro Mod at great expense (compared with a nitrous or supercharged car.) But, the idea is to build a car that can WIN.
If people are paying attention to Mike Moran's progress (and, you can bet that they are,) there will likely be more alky-fired, twin turbocharged Pro Mods built in the foreseeable future, I think. They will proliferate like rabbits if Mike continues to improve, and IF NHRA doesn't make changes to the turbo cars' rules that kill their potential.
I say, more power to them; these cookies are all beginning to taste alike...
Bill
Joe, I think it's waaaaaay too expensive as it stands, and nitromethane is the reason it's so expensive.
Nitro is an expensive-to-buy fuel that destroys parts on a wholesale basis, causes horriffic explosions, is extremely difficult to control (tune), requires everything it affects, to be built super-strong, to the point that the cars are much heavier than they used to be. Pete Robinson built a blown Chevy Top Eliminator car that weighed less than 1,000 pounds.... and lived. Today's cars weigh more than twice that much.
Nitro is responsible for engines having to be torn down after every run, with several people working feverishly to ready the car for the next round; they don't work for nothing... The oil supply only lasts one run... contaminated.
But, you ask me "how expensive do you want this sport to become?"
It's already out of control and has been for years....
All I did was ask about the viability of turbos on large-displacement engines in Pro Mod, a changeover that would require the Roots blown teams to fabricate plumbing for two "hairdryers", the fuel system for such an induction system, and not a lot else. Same chassis; same basic engine; probably a different cam and clutch setup and not many other changes that would cost much, comparatively. I don't see this turbo-inspired P/M being an expensive car compared with the other (Roots) blown cars.
But, maybe that's not what Joe meant.
I wasn't even ADVOCATING that anybody build one; I was just carping about the lack of variety in a sport that used to THRIVE on variety.
Nobody's going to put a gun to anybody's head and coerce them into building a turbocharged Pro Mod at great expense (compared with a nitrous or supercharged car.) But, the idea is to build a car that can WIN.
If people are paying attention to Mike Moran's progress (and, you can bet that they are,) there will likely be more alky-fired, twin turbocharged Pro Mods built in the foreseeable future, I think. They will proliferate like rabbits if Mike continues to improve, and IF NHRA doesn't make changes to the turbo cars' rules that kill their potential.
I say, more power to them; these cookies are all beginning to taste alike...
Bill
Last edited:
Well if your goal is to get rid of Nitro your Pissin in the wind!
Bill
Nitro Member
Thanks for your well-thought-out and eloquent response to my post, Joe.
This thread is about turbocharged Pro Mods.... Getting rid of nitro is not within the parameters of this thread; it would take a much bigger, broader discussion to examine the vagaries of that subject.
My point was, compared to nitro racing, with all its many super-expensive facets (some of which I mentioned previously) changing the forced induction from positive displacement (Roots) blowers to exhaust driven ones on the relatively few Pro Mod cars that exist, would PALE, by comparison.
It's like swallowing a cow, and strangling on a flea.
I think nitro racing is not going away anytime soon.
I also think that that's a shame because I think that it is responsible for most of the exorbitant cost of racing, these days. A while back, I posted a considerable-length thread about how I thought it might be possible to do away with nitro (by using 800 cid motors, multi-turboed on alky, in lighter cars) and not go any slower than todays fuelers, but nobody but me thought it was a good idea, so that's obviously not going anywhere.
I am just tired of the samo/samo due to NHRA's unduly restrictive rules, and these turbocharged/alcohol-fired Pro Mods seemed like a breath of fresh air (no pun intended.)
That's all this thread is about; it's not a platform to preach the demise of Fuel cars. I already tried that, and my ideas were regarded with less than enthiusiasm... to say the least. I wasn't surprised; there's a reason this forum is called "NITROmater." LOL!
I'd just like to see a financially healthy drag racing community, and the many unduly expensive THINGS that nitro motors dictate, are going to prevent that, I'm afraid. But my crystal ball is geting pretty murky after 70 years of use.... so, I won't bring that up again.
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
This thread is about turbocharged Pro Mods.... Getting rid of nitro is not within the parameters of this thread; it would take a much bigger, broader discussion to examine the vagaries of that subject.
My point was, compared to nitro racing, with all its many super-expensive facets (some of which I mentioned previously) changing the forced induction from positive displacement (Roots) blowers to exhaust driven ones on the relatively few Pro Mod cars that exist, would PALE, by comparison.
It's like swallowing a cow, and strangling on a flea.
I think nitro racing is not going away anytime soon.
I also think that that's a shame because I think that it is responsible for most of the exorbitant cost of racing, these days. A while back, I posted a considerable-length thread about how I thought it might be possible to do away with nitro (by using 800 cid motors, multi-turboed on alky, in lighter cars) and not go any slower than todays fuelers, but nobody but me thought it was a good idea, so that's obviously not going anywhere.
I am just tired of the samo/samo due to NHRA's unduly restrictive rules, and these turbocharged/alcohol-fired Pro Mods seemed like a breath of fresh air (no pun intended.)
That's all this thread is about; it's not a platform to preach the demise of Fuel cars. I already tried that, and my ideas were regarded with less than enthiusiasm... to say the least. I wasn't surprised; there's a reason this forum is called "NITROmater." LOL!
I'd just like to see a financially healthy drag racing community, and the many unduly expensive THINGS that nitro motors dictate, are going to prevent that, I'm afraid. But my crystal ball is geting pretty murky after 70 years of use.... so, I won't bring that up again.
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
Last edited:
Turbo's DO have a Huge advantage over Superchargers in the fact that you don't have any Power drag on the Motor with a Turbo. So you can bet that if in the future Turbo's have some sort of performance advantage, you can bet NHRA will slow them down either in Size limits or Weight limits.
I've said this before that Turbo's do nothing for me as a fan, race cars are suppose to sound like race cars! Turbo do nothing for the adrenaline Rush fans associate with racing.
Bill
Nitro Member
Joe, you're undoubtedly right on all counts.
Me, I'm one of those crazy people who is more interested in how fast a car can go than how much noise it can make. To me, THAT is the essence of hot rodding. But that's just me...
BTW, the back pressure created by the turbocharger impeller and scroll on the exhaust side saps a LOT of horsepower from the engine. Don't ever embrace the idea that turbocharging is "free" horsepower; it's not. However, it IS a lot more efficient than belt-driven superchargers of ANY type, though; that's why the conventionally-blown cars need some sort of "handicap" rule to level the playing field. Nothing wrong with that unless NHRA goes overboard with it.
Ideally, I'd love to see one of Sonny Leonard's 800 cubic-inch Hemi motors with four turbos in an Outlaw Pro Mod (how "outlaw" can you get???) just to see how fast it could go on alcohol. But, talk about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!
Like the guy told me at the parts store... "Speed costs money; how fast do you want to go?????????" LOL!
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
Me, I'm one of those crazy people who is more interested in how fast a car can go than how much noise it can make. To me, THAT is the essence of hot rodding. But that's just me...
BTW, the back pressure created by the turbocharger impeller and scroll on the exhaust side saps a LOT of horsepower from the engine. Don't ever embrace the idea that turbocharging is "free" horsepower; it's not. However, it IS a lot more efficient than belt-driven superchargers of ANY type, though; that's why the conventionally-blown cars need some sort of "handicap" rule to level the playing field. Nothing wrong with that unless NHRA goes overboard with it.
Ideally, I'd love to see one of Sonny Leonard's 800 cubic-inch Hemi motors with four turbos in an Outlaw Pro Mod (how "outlaw" can you get???) just to see how fast it could go on alcohol. But, talk about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!
Like the guy told me at the parts store... "Speed costs money; how fast do you want to go?????????" LOL!
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
haagar
Nitro Member
Engine Masters high performance engine builds
Not nearly 800CI, but banned before it ever saw the track. But, that was for one of the street classes.
Last edited:
Joe, I think it's waaaaaay too expensive as it stands, and nitromethane is the reason it's so expensive.
Nitro is an expensive-to-buy fuel that destroys parts on a wholesale basis, causes horriffic explosions, is extremely difficult to control (tune), requires everything it affects, to be built super-strong, to the point that the cars are much heavier than they used to be. Pete Robinson built a blown Chevy Top Eliminator car that weighed less than 1,000 pounds.... and lived. Today's cars weigh more than twice that much.
Nitro is responsible for engines having to be torn down after every run, with several people working feverishly to ready the car for the next round; they don't work for nothing... The oil supply only lasts one run... contaminated.
I hate to get up on the tire about this, but your argument is completely one sided. Nitro is expensive only because of the FDA's concern over its use in terrorist attacks and its supposed "shortage". And dont start on the building super strong stuff, when you spool up massive ammounts of boost in a motor with a turbo, blower or nitrous combination you have to build the motor strong as well....A nitro combination requires strong parts because of the expansion rate of the fuel, not because of how volatile it is...And as far as parts life, that varies massively on the aggresiveness of the tuner and the mixture of nitro your using....The crankshaft in our A-Fuel car lasted 6 years before we built a new shortblock and the crank is still being used in Europe in a A-Fuel car competing in FIA. And dont even get me started on the weight of the cars, because most of the weight that has been added to the cars has absolutely nothing to do with Nitromethane, just more along the lines of building a safer chassis, which is disputable in my opinion.
Nitro is an expensive-to-buy fuel that destroys parts on a wholesale basis, causes horriffic explosions, is extremely difficult to control (tune), requires everything it affects, to be built super-strong, to the point that the cars are much heavier than they used to be. Pete Robinson built a blown Chevy Top Eliminator car that weighed less than 1,000 pounds.... and lived. Today's cars weigh more than twice that much.
Nitro is responsible for engines having to be torn down after every run, with several people working feverishly to ready the car for the next round; they don't work for nothing... The oil supply only lasts one run... contaminated.
I hate to get up on the tire about this, but your argument is completely one sided. Nitro is expensive only because of the FDA's concern over its use in terrorist attacks and its supposed "shortage". And dont start on the building super strong stuff, when you spool up massive ammounts of boost in a motor with a turbo, blower or nitrous combination you have to build the motor strong as well....A nitro combination requires strong parts because of the expansion rate of the fuel, not because of how volatile it is...And as far as parts life, that varies massively on the aggresiveness of the tuner and the mixture of nitro your using....The crankshaft in our A-Fuel car lasted 6 years before we built a new shortblock and the crank is still being used in Europe in a A-Fuel car competing in FIA. And dont even get me started on the weight of the cars, because most of the weight that has been added to the cars has absolutely nothing to do with Nitromethane, just more along the lines of building a safer chassis, which is disputable in my opinion.
Bill
Nitro Member
>>>>"Nitro is expensive only because of the FDA's concern over its use in terrorist attacks and its supposed "shortage". <<<
I'm sure that's 100-percent true, but it's irrelevant when you're the one shucking out the bucks for it.
Expensive is expensive, no matter "why." Do you think this is a temporary situation?
Show me a T/F team that uses a crankshaft for 6 years... or even 6 months...
Guess I should have stipulated that I was talking about blown fuel motors.... sorry.
Bill
I'm sure that's 100-percent true, but it's irrelevant when you're the one shucking out the bucks for it.
Expensive is expensive, no matter "why." Do you think this is a temporary situation?
Show me a T/F team that uses a crankshaft for 6 years... or even 6 months...
Guess I should have stipulated that I was talking about blown fuel motors.... sorry.
Bill
Last edited:
Bill
Nitro Member
And, thanks a lot to Bobby Bennett and Frederick Haag for the great links!!!
I REALLY appreciate those; lots of interesting, fascinating material there to fire the imagination!!!
Lest anyone get the idea that I don't have an addiction to nitro racing, I have measurable hearing loss from standing on the starting line with my hands cupped over my ears in such a way as to direct the sound INTO my ears (as opposed to a normal human being, who would try to protect their hearing by plugging their ears.) People look at me like I'm crazy...
I am not kidding; I have done that for years... still do. To say that I love it would be like saying I "kind of" need oxygen.
'There's nothing on earth like a "Fuel" motor...' Garlits said that, and I fully agree!!!
I just don't think that we can afford them any more, and that there are alternatives that might not prove as popular, but WOULD be just as fast.
Would I miss the sound? You bet I would.. but, I think it would be better than a return to Top Gas... Something will eventually cause a cessation of the use of nitro as a fuel, I feel. I hate that, but I believe it will happen.
I'd like to see drag racing ready, with an acceptable alternative, if and when that happens. Multi-turbo, big-inch, lightweight dragsters are one possibility, I think.
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
I REALLY appreciate those; lots of interesting, fascinating material there to fire the imagination!!!
Lest anyone get the idea that I don't have an addiction to nitro racing, I have measurable hearing loss from standing on the starting line with my hands cupped over my ears in such a way as to direct the sound INTO my ears (as opposed to a normal human being, who would try to protect their hearing by plugging their ears.) People look at me like I'm crazy...
I am not kidding; I have done that for years... still do. To say that I love it would be like saying I "kind of" need oxygen.
'There's nothing on earth like a "Fuel" motor...' Garlits said that, and I fully agree!!!
I just don't think that we can afford them any more, and that there are alternatives that might not prove as popular, but WOULD be just as fast.
Would I miss the sound? You bet I would.. but, I think it would be better than a return to Top Gas... Something will eventually cause a cessation of the use of nitro as a fuel, I feel. I hate that, but I believe it will happen.
I'd like to see drag racing ready, with an acceptable alternative, if and when that happens. Multi-turbo, big-inch, lightweight dragsters are one possibility, I think.
Bill, in Conway, Arkansas
Last edited:
Bill, what makes you think that it will be any less expensive getting rid of nitro and substituting it with something that is equally as powerful, or slightly less powerful? The more horsepower you intend to make, the more money its going to cost you. Nobody really likes how expensive the sport has gotten but thats just the way it is...Just ask anybody involved in Pro Stock how much money they spend a year on their combinations...I guarantee its about twice to three times as much as a Top Fuel car....And theyre going about 100 mph slower on gas.
Bill
Nitro Member
Joe, were you around during the nitro ban of 1957-1963?
I was. AHRA ran nitro; NHRA ran gasoline.
NHRA had what I'd call a bountiful harvest of fans during those years; AHRA just barely stayed in business.
Not everybody goes to the drags just to see the dragsters and funny cars.
It's not even worth speculating about because it's never going to happen.
NHRA has so much intertia about anything they try to do; they can't even issue a ruling about Stocker cylinder head port volumes after months and months of haggling... It's ridiculous!
Can you IMAGINE the apoplexy in the ivory towers if anyone even jokingly suggested that they do away with nitro??? Jeez....
I realize that what I suggest is "far out" and nobody on this board, much less at NHRA would take such an idea seriously. I just see the sport reeling under the inordinate expense caused by running a car on nitromethane, and it starts me looking for alternatives.
I seem to be a cult of one.... but, I DO think that big-inch alky/turbo motors have a future in Pro Mod, if NHRA doesn't kill them with restrictive legislation.
I'm happy with that scenario, for now.
Thanks for listening!
Bill
I was. AHRA ran nitro; NHRA ran gasoline.
NHRA had what I'd call a bountiful harvest of fans during those years; AHRA just barely stayed in business.
Not everybody goes to the drags just to see the dragsters and funny cars.
It's not even worth speculating about because it's never going to happen.
NHRA has so much intertia about anything they try to do; they can't even issue a ruling about Stocker cylinder head port volumes after months and months of haggling... It's ridiculous!
Can you IMAGINE the apoplexy in the ivory towers if anyone even jokingly suggested that they do away with nitro??? Jeez....
I realize that what I suggest is "far out" and nobody on this board, much less at NHRA would take such an idea seriously. I just see the sport reeling under the inordinate expense caused by running a car on nitromethane, and it starts me looking for alternatives.
I seem to be a cult of one.... but, I DO think that big-inch alky/turbo motors have a future in Pro Mod, if NHRA doesn't kill them with restrictive legislation.
I'm happy with that scenario, for now.
Thanks for listening!
Bill
Bill
Nitro Member
Charles,
I don't have a clue why Pro Stock is so expensive, but I don't think the comparison to a Top Fuel operation has any validty in this argument because they are too different.
Why do I think a turbo/alky motor Top Eliminator car would be less expensive than a fuel car to run?
Well, that's a good question.
As I see it, here are some of the reasons I think a car could be built to run on alcohol with turbochargers providing the forced induction, for less money that a current T/F engine.
1. How much difference is there in the cost of alcohol and nitromethane?
I don't have good information, but I think nitro is about FIVE TIMES as expensive as alcohol, and that's just a wild guess on my part. I hope that somebody who has actual figures will correct me if I'm wrong.
A fuel motor uses tremendous AMOUNTS of nitro, compared with an alky motor... several times as much. The stoichiometric ratios for the two fuels are vastly different. That, of course, only exacerbates the $$$ problem.
2. Parts attrition: Fuel motors eat parts for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. If they didn't, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to field-strip them after every run down the track. Alcohol motors are not subject to the same rigors of operation (less cylinder pressure, oil contamination, and damaging heat) and the parts last a lot longer, generally.
3. Drivetrain components will not have to built as strong as these current pieces, so will be lighter and cheaper to build and to buy. I don't think a 4-turbo, 800 cid Sonny Leonard Hemi will come anywhere near making the kind of power an Alan Johnson 500cid fuel motor will produce. Maybe 4500-5000 hp... max. That's just my guess. I could be off by 1,000 hp, and probably am.
That being the case, the cars can and should be a LOT lighter, and somewhat shorter, even, since they don't have to deal with the awesome power of a current fuel motor. Dropping 500 pounds off one of these cars wouldn't be easy, but EVERYTHING could be lighter, because stress factors would be significantly reduced. They could use a smaller wing, and probably smaller tires. No stupid 3.2:1 final drive ratio would be desirable or necessary. A two speed planetary transmission OR a torque converter might work for a car like this.
The number of people necessary to make the car ready for each next round would drop by probably half, because between-round mainteance wouldn't be so all-encompassing, because this motor will not be hurting parts like a fuel motor does. It's a lot bigger engine and makes a lot less power; that equals less stress on everything that moves (and some things that don't.)
4. Engine explosions won't totally disappear, probably, but surely will be less frequent and, less violent, due to the nature of the fuel. There will be no "burst panel", so the aborted runs that exist in today's fuel competition won't exist. There are no blower belts to "throw" or break. Problems with fuel supply, such as the "shortage" that was perpetrated last year, will no longer be a possibility; the "politics" of nitro supply will cease to exist. Racers won't have to pay an arm and a leg for their fuel, nor worry about the possibility of a shortage.
5. I don't see this never-never alky-fired dragster with 4 turbos and 800 cubic inches running a whole lot slower than current -day fuel cars, but it surely will not be faster/quicker.
NHRA doen't need 350mph Dragsters and Funny Cars with the 1,000-foot debacle staring them in the face, so if these new cars could only go, say, 300mph @ 4.80, it might make it possible to return ALL the strips to 1,320-foot racing, since these new cars will be lighter and easier to stop.
I defy ANYONE to watch a car going 300mph and tell whether it's going 300 or 330. I know I surely couldn't do it! The fans won't, either.
The status quo with regard to Top Fuel racing probably isn't going to change, but if the economy continues to "tank" it might be necessary to cut the cost of racing for these teams, and I think this is just one of many different ways to do it.
"Crazy" Bill
Last edited:
Hey Bill, Sorry I didnt reply earlier Ive been pretty busy lately...I see what your saying about the turbo alky combination in Pro Mod being something of the future, I definetly agree that the turbocharged combination can be superior if a few more people attempt the risk of research and data and the learning curve of it.
Unfortunately I disagree with you regarding it ever having the ability to replace Nitromethane. One of the many false facts in drag racing is that Nitromethane is hard on parts. Thats is absolutely not true, it is not the Nitro that is hard on parts its the forced induction of the supercharger and the mixture of Methanol that is hard on parts.
The Stoichiometric ratio of Nitromethane is 1.7:1 and this is largely in part because by weight, Nitro contains a 57% oxygen content per lb, where as Alcohol and Gasoline are much higher in comparison to the stoichiometry. This in itself will constitute to more horsepower, but it does not mean that it is harder on parts or gives it validity to be more expensive.
Whenever you have a high horsepwer forced induction system your parts life is severely affected in comparison to a naturally aspirated engine. One good example of this is the Nitrous Pro Mod combinations. For those guys it is sometimes piston and connecting rod assemblies are only good for one run before they are scrap, and this is due to the high head and large cylinder pressures that the gasoline and extra Nitrogen create in the cumbustion chamber, whereas on a Naturally Aspirated A-Fuel dragster with mechanical injection running 94% Nitro, we will sometimes never have to change internal engine parts the entire season. I know in our case we used the same engine parts in our car all year long, and the valves, pistons and fuel system components are over 3 years old.
I will agree with you on the weight issue though, as lighter is always faster and better, but the reason Nitro cars are so heavy is not because it is a neccessity but more of a rules regulation to keep competition even. Yes, the bottom end of the motors and drivetrain components of a Top Fuel and A-Fuel entry are required to be strong and durable, but durability and strength sometimes requires more mass as well....But this is also true with anything that is going over 300 mph...I guarantee you if an Alky combination ever makes it into the 300's they will have to add more strength/mass to their cars as well.
Im sure we can continue to talk about this subject for hours, but I hope you see my side to the debate as well.
Bill
Nitro Member
Charles,
Whatever it is (supercharging, methanol, or whatever) that makes T/F motors fail with such alarming regularity, I think that facet of creating component failures would be dramatically reduced if the fuel type were limited to methanol. Of COURSE, when you start making the kind of power that it would take to push 2,000-pounds, plus or minus a couple of hundred, 300 mph in 5 seconds, or less, there WILL be equipment failures, but not on the level that exists in today's T/F world.
I believe that the stresses on the equipment, overall, will fall exponentially, and with that, the frequency of failed components will decline dramatically.
That is just my opinion, based on watching what happens to the blown alcohol motors in T/AD and T/A FC. I think that the mega-cube engines would just naturally live longer because it wouldn't be necessary to twist them so tight to make the needed power. Plus, I believe that turbochargers are "easier" on forced induction engines than Roots-blown systems. Turbos deliver a cooler charge (not as prone to detonation) are easier to aftercool, and don't require the 500+ horsepower to run that T/F and F/C superchargers do.
But, you make some very good and valid points, but as I have said over and over, I think it's all moot, because NHRA will sell the farm before they enact another nitro ban. Again, that's just my opinion, but I think it's probably true.
Thanks for your attention and discussion, Charles.
Bill
Whatever it is (supercharging, methanol, or whatever) that makes T/F motors fail with such alarming regularity, I think that facet of creating component failures would be dramatically reduced if the fuel type were limited to methanol. Of COURSE, when you start making the kind of power that it would take to push 2,000-pounds, plus or minus a couple of hundred, 300 mph in 5 seconds, or less, there WILL be equipment failures, but not on the level that exists in today's T/F world.
I believe that the stresses on the equipment, overall, will fall exponentially, and with that, the frequency of failed components will decline dramatically.
That is just my opinion, based on watching what happens to the blown alcohol motors in T/AD and T/A FC. I think that the mega-cube engines would just naturally live longer because it wouldn't be necessary to twist them so tight to make the needed power. Plus, I believe that turbochargers are "easier" on forced induction engines than Roots-blown systems. Turbos deliver a cooler charge (not as prone to detonation) are easier to aftercool, and don't require the 500+ horsepower to run that T/F and F/C superchargers do.
But, you make some very good and valid points, but as I have said over and over, I think it's all moot, because NHRA will sell the farm before they enact another nitro ban. Again, that's just my opinion, but I think it's probably true.
Thanks for your attention and discussion, Charles.
Bill
Last edited:
If nitro racing is really really expensive (which dont get me wrong it is) then why is nascar about 4 times more expensive . Whats the numbers thrown around for a nitro team a year $3-4 million? well isn't nascar $12 million a year?
I think the really bad thing about these price increases these days is even though I am only 20 , when looking at the old days nitro racing used to be something that was acheivable for the average person , where as today it isn't well unless you want to be insanely dedicated .
Someone said something once that made alot of sense on this issue and that was that you can no longer really do any innovating to use your brain to go fast , you can't alter a cylinder head or anything like that yet you are allowed to go out and buy as many off the shelf spare parts as you want .
Though I am deffinitly not a supporter of a nitro ban . I am not a racer so people can think what they want about what I am about to say . People want to go racing , look at the old days people used to be on the road all year long and stay at the track or in cheap motels and pretty travelled with only the minimal stuff they needed . Yet look at today there are people who want to race yet wont even consider trying it without some big trailer and a motorhome thats the equivilent of their house . I have the same oppinion when I am at a super market and see someone complaining about the price of food yet they have wine and caviar in their trolley .
I think the really bad thing about these price increases these days is even though I am only 20 , when looking at the old days nitro racing used to be something that was acheivable for the average person , where as today it isn't well unless you want to be insanely dedicated .
Someone said something once that made alot of sense on this issue and that was that you can no longer really do any innovating to use your brain to go fast , you can't alter a cylinder head or anything like that yet you are allowed to go out and buy as many off the shelf spare parts as you want .
Though I am deffinitly not a supporter of a nitro ban . I am not a racer so people can think what they want about what I am about to say . People want to go racing , look at the old days people used to be on the road all year long and stay at the track or in cheap motels and pretty travelled with only the minimal stuff they needed . Yet look at today there are people who want to race yet wont even consider trying it without some big trailer and a motorhome thats the equivilent of their house . I have the same oppinion when I am at a super market and see someone complaining about the price of food yet they have wine and caviar in their trolley .
Last edited:
Nate
Nitro Member
Really? You ever been and watched an outlaw 10.5 car or true 10.5 car with that kinda power from a pair of turbos? Man if those cars dont give you an adrenaline rush somethings wrong.
YouTube - Eric Dillard Wheelie at Atlanta Dragway
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=46784604
Similar threads
