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Americans forgetting 9-11 Fast!
- Thread starter Toejam
- Start date
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, no links to Al Qaeda or the Taliban were ever substantiated because they never existed. Saddam didn't want to partner with the rest of the Middle East ... he wanted to rule it. Once we deposed Saddam, insurgents flooded the country which has put us in a very expensive quagmire, in terms of money, human loss and our reputation with the rest of the world. Get out, and get out now before one more drop of blood hits the ground.
Alexander the Great could not occupy the region.
The Romans could not occupy the region.
The Crusaders could not occupy the region.
Genghis/Kublai Khan could not occupy the region.
The Nazis did not even try to occupy the region (what does that tell you?).
The middle east is history's black hole, it is where armies and ideology go to die.
EDIT: Even though in principle and application I am against further action in Iraq, I do support and pray for our brave service men and women that they can remain safe until someone can figure out how to get them out of there.
Alexander the Great could not occupy the region.
The Romans could not occupy the region.
The Crusaders could not occupy the region.
Genghis/Kublai Khan could not occupy the region.
The Nazis did not even try to occupy the region (what does that tell you?).
The middle east is history's black hole, it is where armies and ideology go to die.
EDIT: Even though in principle and application I am against further action in Iraq, I do support and pray for our brave service men and women that they can remain safe until someone can figure out how to get them out of there.
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ProStockJunkie
Nitro Member
Seems with American's ainst agains't the Iraq war, I wonder how many more 9-11's we DO need to convince the American people that we actually have an enemy that wants to Kill us???
Unfortunately Joe, I'm sure we will find out sooner, rather then later. People continue to fail at seeing the bigger picture and how Iraq DOES fit into the war on terror.
It gets worse.. MUCH worse!
not only are some forgetting 911. There are revisionists and conspiracy nuts at work. There is a cottage industry of student filmmakers making claims of ghost planes, demolition charges at wtc. cruise missile hitting the pentagon and that the crash of flight 93 never happened. They have a cult following that is growing in sub culture popularity. I was doing a google search and stumbled upon it. the same weekend my brother in-law mentioned he got into a confrontation with a supposed "professor" at ground zero during the fifth anniversary. A flunky radio talk show Alex Jones started his own web site Alex Jones' Infowars.com :: There is a War on for Your Mind!. And this punk kid Dylan Avery who I would like to knock his lights out has a cult film "loosechange". I found a radio clip where he makes fun of some of the flight victims. It really hit a nerve with me. I know we all respect the freedom to express our own views but this revisionism really disturbs me. Thankfully theres a bunch who are debunking and fighting these wackos on sites such as screloosechangeand a tour guide for NYC was so incensed he started his own 911 conspiracy debunk page Loose Change 2nd Edition Viewer Guide . I am thankful that some of these 911 conspiracy nuts have lost their jobs because they have tied their beliefs to the agencies or universities they worked for.
not only are some forgetting 911. There are revisionists and conspiracy nuts at work. There is a cottage industry of student filmmakers making claims of ghost planes, demolition charges at wtc. cruise missile hitting the pentagon and that the crash of flight 93 never happened. They have a cult following that is growing in sub culture popularity. I was doing a google search and stumbled upon it. the same weekend my brother in-law mentioned he got into a confrontation with a supposed "professor" at ground zero during the fifth anniversary. A flunky radio talk show Alex Jones started his own web site Alex Jones' Infowars.com :: There is a War on for Your Mind!. And this punk kid Dylan Avery who I would like to knock his lights out has a cult film "loosechange". I found a radio clip where he makes fun of some of the flight victims. It really hit a nerve with me. I know we all respect the freedom to express our own views but this revisionism really disturbs me. Thankfully theres a bunch who are debunking and fighting these wackos on sites such as screloosechangeand a tour guide for NYC was so incensed he started his own 911 conspiracy debunk page Loose Change 2nd Edition Viewer Guide . I am thankful that some of these 911 conspiracy nuts have lost their jobs because they have tied their beliefs to the agencies or universities they worked for.
rollemup
Nitro Member
........and your belief in what happened is based on what.........oh yeah, tv
HEMI6point1
Nitro Member
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, as a matter of fact Saddam and Bin Ladin don't even like each other. And as crazy as this may sound, Saddam kept that county in line because when he was in power he would NOT stand for anyone like Al Queda trying to barge in. Now that he is gone that country is FULL of terrorists. Am I supporting Saddam? No, just pointing out things.
ProStockJunkie
Nitro Member
Believe what you want to.
ProStockJunkie
Nitro Member
What the Iraqi Survey Group's Report Missed
What The Iraqi Survey Group's Report Missed
By Frank Salvato
December 8, 2006
The non-partisan Iraq Study Group released its much ballyhooed non-binding report Wednesday. (web site) I took the time to read it as I do each study, survey and report that has to do with the well-being and security of our nation, as should the rest of America. The only thought that came to mind as I finished reading it was that the citizens of the United States, even the so-called "wise men," have lost their will to do what is needed not only to preserve our country, but to advance the cause of freedom around the world. This is disturbing, especially in the shadow of the 65th anniversary of the attacks on Pearl Harbor.
There were many things in the report that seemed to echo what the Bush Administration has been doing all along: enlisting the assistance of foreign powers in the region to help stabilize the fledgling democracy, putting a priority on training Iraqi troops so they can take over security operations, striving to secure the western and southeastern borders and empowering the newly elected Iraqi government.
The report further suggested that there be a troop increase before the redeployment. That suggestion brought back memories of John Kerry's statement that he voted for the war before he voted against it. The report also suggested that the US open up diplomatic relations with Syria and Iran and introduced the Israeli-Palestinian conflict into the equation.
The idea of sending more military personnel into Iraq has advantages and disadvantages, as well as learned supporters from both sides of the aisle. To date, President Bush has maintained that those most qualified to judge what is needed in Iraq are the military commanders on the ground in Iraq.
Currently, the Pentagon is compiling its own report of strategy alternatives for the Iraqi conflict. An intelligent idea would be to wait on implementing any of the Iraq Study Group's recommendations until we can reconcile the two of them.
The suggestion that the United States should open up dialogue with Syria and Iran also has its merits. I have always been a firm believer in using all of our government's resources in combating threats to our nation; diplomatic, financial and military. True, only the monumentally dense believe that Syria and Iran would be genuine in their interactions with the United States, or any country from the West, but keeping even a disingenuous line of communication open between those who are not considered allies has its advantages, the utilization of a well produced disinformation campaign among them.
Where the Iraq Study Group starts to stray is in their assertion that the Israeli-Palestinian issue is somehow related to the power struggle currently taking place in Iraq. Unless I am ignorant to the existence of a Jewish contingent in the newly formed Iraqi government, introducing this conflict into the equation simply complicates the matter. It creates opportunities for the less than reputable insurgent factions to blame their continued acts of violence on something that isn't part of the immediate problem.
The current difficulty in Iraq stems not from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (web site) but from two existing clashes: the centuries old battle between the Shi'ites and the Sunnis (web site) and the more recent radical Islamists' struggle against the West, namely the United States.
The Sunni insurgents of al Qaeda in Iraq are involved in a power-struggle for control of that country with the Shi'ites of Iran and Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army. As the Sunni ideology, which accounts for almost 90 percent of the Muslim population, is championed by Saudi Arabia and the Shi'ite ideology by Iran, any premature withdrawal of US and Coalition Forces from Iraq could very well lead to a complete breakdown of the newly elected and sovereign Iraqi government and plummet the region into all out war. (web site)
The conflict in Iraq is a Muslim versus Muslim conflict that deals with the religious divide in Islam that has existed since the death of Muhammad. To intimate that the Israeli-Arab conflict is somehow responsible for the violence between Shi'ite and Sunni factions in Iraq is irresponsible and incorrect.
But perhaps the most glaring omission in the Iraqi Study Group's report was their failure to identify the vitriolic propaganda campaign of the anti-war Progressive-Left as part of the problem.
Nowhere in the report did the group call for anti-war Progressive-Leftists to forego the destructive political gamesmanship of partisan opportunism in favor of joining together to offer solutions. It didn't point out that disparaging statements about our troops and our president made by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore and John Murtha, statements tantamount to rhetorical atrocities, served to encourage those who want to kill us.
The report never mentioned that the constant onslaught of biased reporting served up by the agenda-driven mainstream media, reporting that chose to focus on terrorist produced violence designed to propagandize, only served to embolden those who place our soldiers in their gun sights.
In short, the Iraq Study Groups report gave a free pass to one of the most debilitating obstacles to victory in Iraq, the anti-war efforts of the Progressive-Left right here in the United States.
Lastly, as we consider the merits and the shortcoming of the Iraq Study Group's report, I find it curious that it omits the option of total victory. It would seem that in our current culture of politically correct moral relativism, being victorious over an enemy that wants to kill you for simply existing isn't politically correct.
While we occupy ourselves with the options provided to us for achieving total retreat, our enemy, an enemy that has no national allegiance, that knows no physical boundaries, an enemy that will settle for nothing but total victory at all costs, is slowly invading the Africa Continent, a continent rich in uranium. Radical Islamists have invaded Somalia, Sudan and they threaten Ethiopia and Chad. While we try to figure out how to remove ourselves from the field of battle, our enemy is amassing territory from which to wage war.
Up until now I would have argued against the thought, but it would seem that Americans are too arrogant, too affluent, too predisposed to narcissism to be bothered with self-preservation. When we put ourselves into harms way because we are too lazy to be bothered with understanding the consequences of inaction, we court disaster for our nation.
I suppose the true threat of the enemy we face will not be understood by the American powers that be until radical Islamists land on our shores and occupy American soil. Hey! Wait a minute. Haven't they already taken Dearborn, Michigan?
----------
Frank Salvato is the managing editor for The New Media Journal. He serves at the Executive Director of the Basics Project, a non-profit, non-partisan, 501(C)(3) research and education initiative. His pieces are regularly featured in over 100 publications both nationally and internationally. He is a regular guest on The Right Balance with Greg Allen on the Accent Radio Network, as well as an occasional guest on numerous radio shows coast to coast. He recently partnered in producing the first-ever symposium on the threat of radical Islamist terrorism in Washington, DC. His pieces have been recognized by the House International Relations Committee and the Japan Center for Conflict. He can be contacted at [email protected]
What The Iraqi Survey Group's Report Missed
By Frank Salvato
December 8, 2006
The non-partisan Iraq Study Group released its much ballyhooed non-binding report Wednesday. (web site) I took the time to read it as I do each study, survey and report that has to do with the well-being and security of our nation, as should the rest of America. The only thought that came to mind as I finished reading it was that the citizens of the United States, even the so-called "wise men," have lost their will to do what is needed not only to preserve our country, but to advance the cause of freedom around the world. This is disturbing, especially in the shadow of the 65th anniversary of the attacks on Pearl Harbor.
There were many things in the report that seemed to echo what the Bush Administration has been doing all along: enlisting the assistance of foreign powers in the region to help stabilize the fledgling democracy, putting a priority on training Iraqi troops so they can take over security operations, striving to secure the western and southeastern borders and empowering the newly elected Iraqi government.
The report further suggested that there be a troop increase before the redeployment. That suggestion brought back memories of John Kerry's statement that he voted for the war before he voted against it. The report also suggested that the US open up diplomatic relations with Syria and Iran and introduced the Israeli-Palestinian conflict into the equation.
The idea of sending more military personnel into Iraq has advantages and disadvantages, as well as learned supporters from both sides of the aisle. To date, President Bush has maintained that those most qualified to judge what is needed in Iraq are the military commanders on the ground in Iraq.
Currently, the Pentagon is compiling its own report of strategy alternatives for the Iraqi conflict. An intelligent idea would be to wait on implementing any of the Iraq Study Group's recommendations until we can reconcile the two of them.
The suggestion that the United States should open up dialogue with Syria and Iran also has its merits. I have always been a firm believer in using all of our government's resources in combating threats to our nation; diplomatic, financial and military. True, only the monumentally dense believe that Syria and Iran would be genuine in their interactions with the United States, or any country from the West, but keeping even a disingenuous line of communication open between those who are not considered allies has its advantages, the utilization of a well produced disinformation campaign among them.
Where the Iraq Study Group starts to stray is in their assertion that the Israeli-Palestinian issue is somehow related to the power struggle currently taking place in Iraq. Unless I am ignorant to the existence of a Jewish contingent in the newly formed Iraqi government, introducing this conflict into the equation simply complicates the matter. It creates opportunities for the less than reputable insurgent factions to blame their continued acts of violence on something that isn't part of the immediate problem.
The current difficulty in Iraq stems not from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (web site) but from two existing clashes: the centuries old battle between the Shi'ites and the Sunnis (web site) and the more recent radical Islamists' struggle against the West, namely the United States.
The Sunni insurgents of al Qaeda in Iraq are involved in a power-struggle for control of that country with the Shi'ites of Iran and Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army. As the Sunni ideology, which accounts for almost 90 percent of the Muslim population, is championed by Saudi Arabia and the Shi'ite ideology by Iran, any premature withdrawal of US and Coalition Forces from Iraq could very well lead to a complete breakdown of the newly elected and sovereign Iraqi government and plummet the region into all out war. (web site)
The conflict in Iraq is a Muslim versus Muslim conflict that deals with the religious divide in Islam that has existed since the death of Muhammad. To intimate that the Israeli-Arab conflict is somehow responsible for the violence between Shi'ite and Sunni factions in Iraq is irresponsible and incorrect.
But perhaps the most glaring omission in the Iraqi Study Group's report was their failure to identify the vitriolic propaganda campaign of the anti-war Progressive-Left as part of the problem.
Nowhere in the report did the group call for anti-war Progressive-Leftists to forego the destructive political gamesmanship of partisan opportunism in favor of joining together to offer solutions. It didn't point out that disparaging statements about our troops and our president made by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore and John Murtha, statements tantamount to rhetorical atrocities, served to encourage those who want to kill us.
The report never mentioned that the constant onslaught of biased reporting served up by the agenda-driven mainstream media, reporting that chose to focus on terrorist produced violence designed to propagandize, only served to embolden those who place our soldiers in their gun sights.
In short, the Iraq Study Groups report gave a free pass to one of the most debilitating obstacles to victory in Iraq, the anti-war efforts of the Progressive-Left right here in the United States.
Lastly, as we consider the merits and the shortcoming of the Iraq Study Group's report, I find it curious that it omits the option of total victory. It would seem that in our current culture of politically correct moral relativism, being victorious over an enemy that wants to kill you for simply existing isn't politically correct.
While we occupy ourselves with the options provided to us for achieving total retreat, our enemy, an enemy that has no national allegiance, that knows no physical boundaries, an enemy that will settle for nothing but total victory at all costs, is slowly invading the Africa Continent, a continent rich in uranium. Radical Islamists have invaded Somalia, Sudan and they threaten Ethiopia and Chad. While we try to figure out how to remove ourselves from the field of battle, our enemy is amassing territory from which to wage war.
Up until now I would have argued against the thought, but it would seem that Americans are too arrogant, too affluent, too predisposed to narcissism to be bothered with self-preservation. When we put ourselves into harms way because we are too lazy to be bothered with understanding the consequences of inaction, we court disaster for our nation.
I suppose the true threat of the enemy we face will not be understood by the American powers that be until radical Islamists land on our shores and occupy American soil. Hey! Wait a minute. Haven't they already taken Dearborn, Michigan?
----------
Frank Salvato is the managing editor for The New Media Journal. He serves at the Executive Director of the Basics Project, a non-profit, non-partisan, 501(C)(3) research and education initiative. His pieces are regularly featured in over 100 publications both nationally and internationally. He is a regular guest on The Right Balance with Greg Allen on the Accent Radio Network, as well as an occasional guest on numerous radio shows coast to coast. He recently partnered in producing the first-ever symposium on the threat of radical Islamist terrorism in Washington, DC. His pieces have been recognized by the House International Relations Committee and the Japan Center for Conflict. He can be contacted at [email protected]
rollemup
Nitro Member
.........I don't know willymoon, it sure doesn't sound like that to me and I'm not making light of what took place, it's just that if anyone believe's what was said about 9/11 through tv or our government, well I feel sorry for them.
ProStockJunkie
Nitro Member
See this part from the article I posted above.... At least you're right about the media...
"Nowhere in the report did the group call for anti-war Progressive-Leftists to forego the destructive political gamesmanship of partisan opportunism in favor of joining together to offer solutions. It didn't point out that disparaging statements about our troops and our president made by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore and John Murtha, statements tantamount to rhetorical atrocities, served to encourage those who want to kill us.
The report never mentioned that the constant onslaught of biased reporting served up by the agenda-driven mainstream media, reporting that chose to focus on terrorist produced violence designed to propagandize, only served to embolden those who place our soldiers in their gun sights."
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so you believe our government created a vast conspiracy involving thousands to cover up a plot that 911 was a self inflicted wound?
I have done a mountain of research to to debunk these crackpots. Particularly about their claims that the passengers landed safely in Cleveland Ohio and haven't been heard from since because the government is "hiding them' from their families. Also the notion that the five lamp posts that were knocked over near the pentagon were "Planted" there to give the impression of a plane crash. And supposedly the twin towers were planted with 'thermate' or some other mysteriously silent explosive to assist in bring down the towers along with some "disrupter ray". Another fruitcake claims the twin towers had concrete cores which were used to guide this "disrupter ray" up to the 87th floor and bring them down.
Steven if you believe such claims then Ive lost any credibility I ever had for you.
We were the victims of an unprecedented attack using vulnerabilities that had not been taken advantage of before. Nothing more. It wasn't some New World Order or the Masons or Zionists. Do some real research and figure it out yourself. if you can sift through the clutter of disinformation from crack pots that are out there.
Why not even go over to the JREF forms and lurk to see how the tin hatters are debunked and made fools of?
however you can think what you want to think. I wont argue the point any longer here. I will attempt to leave this as my final post here on this matter. it's just a damn shame the honor of the victims has to be besmirched with such nonsense.
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rollemup
Nitro Member
..........hey Al, I find it strange that you lost all credibilty in me, because as far as I'm concerned I never had any 
. I never said I believed what the so call conspiracy(sp) people say about 9/11, but for your sake I will repeat what I said and that is this; I feel sorry for the people that believe what the media and our government had to say about 9/11.
. I never said I believed what the so call conspiracy(sp) people say about 9/11, but for your sake I will repeat what I said and that is this; I feel sorry for the people that believe what the media and our government had to say about 9/11.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Not only did Saddam keep Iraq in line, he kept Iran in line too. Now we have eliminated Iran's only enemy in the region, and suddenly they are making claims against Israel and pushing everyone's limits as far as nuclear capabilities are concerned. They would have NEVER built a nuclear reactor with Saddam in power, because they know that would have provoked Saddam. Plus, with our inability to come to any type of clear-cut resolution in Iraq, it only emboldens countries like Iran.
The crazy thing is, we have WAY more reason to invade Iran than we ever did to invade Iraq, but we can't do it now because we lost any creditability we had in Iraq and our allies are not going to follow us down the road again into another protracted quagmire.
To be honest I am really surprised we haven't been hit yet since 911. The fact that they didn't let the Richard Reid's of the world slip through their hands tells me at least they are doing a great job. The downside if their is one is that the average citizen has become complacent and forgetful of the scope of what happened on 911. You may debate the reasons for the start of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflict. But now Al Queda is too busy fighting with the insurgency for the past five years to even think of planning an attack on our soil. Granted there still are casualties. The difference being it is not the waitress serving tables at windows on the world or a stockbroker on the phone meeting their deaths. Its our soldiers fighting for freedom and taking them out at the same time.
BlueStangGT
Nitro Member
..........hey Al, I find it strange that you lost all credibilty in me, because as far as I'm concerned I never had any
What do you believe happened that day?
rollemup
Nitro Member
Hey Tom, Thanks for asking, I don't claim have any inside information or to know any secret stuff. Everything I know is public information, the difference between me and most people is that I believe that our government would not blink an eye while killing American people to usher in thier hidden agenda's, and for believeing and thinking like that I am considered a loony toon or conspiracy nut or whatever they want to call me, but without going into many pages of testimony and facts it would take days for me to type it all. If you want to get a glimps of how I see things go rent the documentary 'Waco Texas: Rules of Engagement, and Tom there are so many 'incidents' that have happened in the past that our government created to usher in thier hidden agends, now Tom I'm not hear to debate the branch dividians, I just want you to watch and listen how our government handled Waco, Texas.
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sharkman
Nitro Member
Ruby Ridge and Waco were total blunders by our Government, 9-11 was a blatent act of terrorism against us. It was a differant senerio, also someone wrote eariler in this thread about the Middle East and how it has never been occupied. The Germans occupied the region all the way from near Cario, Egypt in the South to almost Moscow to the Northwest, including Syria, Turkey, Iran and most of the region, this was thier oil supply line untill they could develope and manufacture thier own synthetic oil to support thier war effort.
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