Amazing Jon Asher Article (1 Viewer)

[Toejam]

A lot of good analogies here, but the fact remains. It seems ALL of us are consumed with or rather Obsessed with the notion that unless this sports' Popularity explodes beyond all of our expectations. Then it is doomed to certain Failure!

Jon Asher's column while making some valid points, is nothing New! How long have kids been playing video games, 15-20 years? Yet how many Junior Dragsters are there in this country, I bet it's in the Thousands!

I think Drag race fans cannot shake the NASCAR envy syndrome! The fact that since Major NASCAR races draw over 150,000 fans, why isn't NHRA? Or since the Daytona 500 pulls a 7.0 Ratings share (Just a guess...) why isn't NHRA pulling those numbers?? Now we all know every form of Motorsports has been hit Hard by the recession, that's undeniable!

One thing I would have loved to see in the Asher Column is; where did all those Jr. Dragster racers go the past 20 years? Why did they quit? That's the best place to start don't you think?

 

[Huge]

Christopher, there are 64 super comps and 37 super gas cars already on the entry list for Pomona. I don't see throttle stop classes going any where. I think they should, and will be here for many,many more years to come. You are right about them being a racers class and not a spectators class, but they are a major part of nhra drag racing.

 

[clwill]

Christopher, there are 64 super comps and 37 super gas cars already on the entry list for Pomona. I don't see throttle stop classes going any where. I think they should, and will be here for many,many more years to come. You are right about them being a racers class and not a spectators class but they are a large part of nhra drag racing.

That's precisely my point. Haters get on throttle stops (and cars "idling" down the track) and go off the deep end. They just don't get it.

BTW, if there are still some spots open when my turn to enter comes up, one of those Super Comp cars at Pomona will be the one you see on the top left of this post...

 

[Huge]

That's precisely my point. Haters get on throttle stops (and cars "idling" down the track) and go off the deep end. They just don't get it.

BTW, if there are still some spots open when my turn to enter comes up, one of those Super Comp cars at Pomona will be the one you see on the top left of this post...

I hope you get in.

 

[90-percent]

Just had to add a little snark.

NHRA should rebrand themselves as killers of golden geese. If they can figure out how to turn this talent into money, the entire crew in Glendora can retire as millionaires in short order. They just have a gift for extracting from an ever increasing portion of the pie their lack of wisdom continues to shrink.

I've been a fan since 1964 and what I find interesting is simply that the population was about 200 million in the mid 60's, and the population today is bigger by 50% at 300 million.

It was a lot more fun back then to be a fan simply because there were more dragstrips and more involvement by average people that bought a musclecar and wanted to see what it would do on the strip. Urban sprawl has killed most community drag strips. Ahhh, progress.

It also seems to be the demographic of the fuel racers of that era was a hell of a lot younger than today. There were plenty of 18-25 year old teams running nitro - think of The Surfers at Bakersfield back in 1964. College kids running national caliber nitro cars! Amazing.

The yearly ratcheting up of national fuel records was also a lot of fun. Each year there were new amazing plateaus being broken. The 200 mph barrier, 230, 250, 270, 300. Us modern "unlimited" nitro fans have seen these cars go as fast as they ever will. Can't put that on the NHRA doorstep, though. That plateau is due to physics and limitations of modern material science, particularly with the tires.

It was fun while it lasted and now I follow the nostalgia nitro circuit. I have a friend that lets me help with their nitro cars and I sure as hell could never expect to lend a hand to a Schumacher or Force camp.

-90% Jimmy

 

[glofria]

If I can put the finger as to what NHRA's biggest problem is it would be the fact that they are struggling with a Icarus Paradox; The Icarus paradox: how exceptional companies bring about their own downfall | Business Horizons | Find Articles

This is not uncommon with former successful companies that are no longer around. Bottom line is they've had so many years of success that they can't realize that they are doomed to fail. What once was gold is now toxic and the question that many of us are asking is, "Why can't they see it like the rest of us see it happening."

Now, I honestly believe that the sport of drag racing will continue to go on with or without NHRA's invovlement. Why? Because to be competitive is human nature. Even those kids that Mr. Archer speakes of in his article like to compete while using their video games.

Happy New Years everyone.

 

[Toejam]

That's precisely my point. Haters get on throttle stops (and cars "idling" down the track) and go off the deep end. They just don't get it.

BTW, if there are still some spots open when my turn to enter comes up, one of those Super Comp cars at Pomona will be the one you see on the top left of this post...

Chris, your right people don't get Throttle stop racing! TD/TS are Far more popular, and also more expensive! I certainly understand why the classes are there, just think it's a waste seeing racers with $15-20,000 Motors running in a throttle stop class! I bet if NHRA banned ALL electronics from the Super classes, I bet they would be more popular IMO!

 

[clwill]

Chris, your right people don't get Throttle stop racing! TD/TS are Far more popular, and also more expensive! I certainly understand why the classes are there, just think it's a waste seeing racers with $15-20,000 Motors running in a throttle stop class! I bet if NHRA banned ALL electronics from the Super classes, I bet they would be more popular IMO!

BUT NO! That's the point. Banning electronics might make it popular with all the old school, gray-haired, "back in my day we used a carburetor and a bolt" crowd but that's precisely what makes it a turn-off for everyone under 30.

Their entire life is electronics. They don't see them as evil, they aren't afraid of them, electronics are at the heart of everything that is good to them. We don't want to ban the very thing that is most important to them -- we need to embrace them not push them away.

And I wish I could spend only $20k on a motor... That's low. I've spent a lot of time this winter pondering the upgrades to make TD. To even make the field in most divisions, you need to be in the 6s, or darn near that. A reliable motor that would get me there would cost me $35k on the low side, and one guy here just had this built for him. Yes, that price is $117k. For just the motor. And then it has to be rebuilt every 40 laps at $20k a time.

But realistically, a competitive TD/TS ride is a high 5, low 6-digit venture. The air up there is pretty thin. Super class racing is popular because, even though it's gone up in cost recently, you can still get in it for 1/2 that.

Chris

 

[Reese]

Really? REALLY? This is the one best thing the NHRA needs to do? Ban throttle stops? That would fix everything? Forget 1000', forget 3-second races, forget ancient technology, forget ticket prices, forget lackluster marketing, forget all of that. To fix all that's wrong with the NHRA, you'd ban throttle stops?

Let's be clear, almost no one (except friends/relatives) comes to a national event to watch the Super class cars. And no one except people who really understand the sport are fans of Super class racing. It really doesn't bother me or any of the 1000s of other Super class racers that everyone heads to the rest room when we run at a national event. We're there to race, we don't care if you watch.

Super class racing (racing with throttle stops) is about the racing, not about fans. It's some of the tightest, most competitive, most fun racing in the sport. And it's by far the most popular racing in terms of participation. Of the 40,000 licensed drivers, or thousands of those who chase divisional or national points, the clear majority of those are Super class racers. In pure numbers, Super class racers outnumber all the other classes combined. When you look at back gate revenue for the NHRA, the strong majority of that revenue comes from Super class racers.

Dear me, we're talking about fixing the NHRA, and the suggestion is to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Some of you people really need to stop buy the clue store and pick up a case.

Thanks Chris, great post. I can't see banning thottle stops saving NHRA racing. If that's the case you would have to ban index racing also. I like super classes, super stock, etc. and I don't leave the stands when they run. But I also understand the challenges it take to dial them in. Get rid of us and who's gonna pay for the insurance.

 

[Reese]

Chris, your right people don't get Throttle stop racing! TD/TS are Far more popular, and also more expensive! I certainly understand why the classes are there, just think it's a waste seeing racers with $15-20,000 Motors running in a throttle stop class! I bet if NHRA banned ALL electronics from the Super classes, I bet they would be more popular IMO!

Electronics makes the $5 to $10,000 a engine racer compete with the $15-20,000 engine racer. TD/TS is turning to a high dollar pissing contest in which the #32 slow qualifier can still beat the #1 fast qualifier on any given day. Get rid of electronics, you would have the same drivers winning all the time and a lot would get out because they can't hit the tree without a box.

 

[Toejam]

Electronics makes the $5 to $10,000 a engine racer compete with the $15-20,000 engine racer. TD/TS is turning to a high dollar pissing contest in which the #32 slow qualifier can still beat the #1 fast qualifier on any given day. Get rid of electronics, you would have the same drivers winning all the time and a lot would get out because they can't hit the tree without a box.

Yeah and you wouldn't see the .001-.005 lights either!

 

[clwill]

Yeah and you wouldn't see the .001-.005 lights either!

Perhaps you need to understand a delay box. It delays. It doesn't make you faster. If you can hit .001 on a pro tree, you can do it with or without a delay box.

Electronics don't make for faster reaction times. Electronics don't make you more consistent. Electronics don't drive the finish line. Electronics don't make an 10sec car into an 8.90 car. Electronics don't turn the racing into "stab and steer".

Let's be clear, the "electronics" we're all talking about here are timers. Just timers. Like a stop watch. No magic. It's about as sophisticated as your kitchen timer, but works in smaller times. A delay box is simply a timer that adds a fixed amount of time to the release. It doesn't anticipate the tree. It doesn't magically go back in time and take .020 out of when you released the button. It's just a delay.

And I bet you didn't know there are mechanical delay devices. Biondo and others make buttons that do the same thing in the "no box" classes.

Some of you folks really need to spend some time in the sportsman pits and chat up some of the folks there. There is SO much more to this racing than you clearly understand.

 

[clwill]

Electronics makes the $5 to $10,000 a engine racer compete with the $15-20,000 engine racer. TD/TS is turning to a high dollar pissing contest in which the #32 slow qualifier can still beat the #1 fast qualifier on any given day. Get rid of electronics, you would have the same drivers winning all the time and a lot would get out because they can't hit the tree without a box.

What makes the #32 compete with #1 is not electronics in the car, it's electronics in the tower. It's the dial-in.

For all the electronics haters out there, consider this:

• Bracket racing (like TS/TD/SP): you call the number you're going to run. A full tree is used to allow for the handicapping at the tree. The delay timer is in the tower. People like this type of racing because you can run all out.
  
• Index racing (like SC/SG): everyone runs the same number. This allows for a pro tree, and the handicapping happens on the track. The delay timer is in the car. People like this type of racing because of the pro tree, and because everyone runs the same time which makes for great finish line battles.

In both forms of racing, there are only two parts of the race that are interesting: the tree, and the finish line. You can't tell who's winning mid-track.

Armand, you are right TD has turned into everything the sportsman classes weren't supported to be: a wallet race. Because of limited fields, you have to qualify to run, and that has made for an arms race. But the fun thing is that, if you look back over the last couple of years, all the really testosterone driven guys, the ones in the low-6s, can't dial those cars consistently, and they don't win much. But they sure do go fast!

 

[Reese]

And I bet you didn't know there are mechanical delay devices. Biondo and others make buttons that do the same thing in the "no box" classes.

I have one of those in my SS car.
I still believe that reaction timers turns below average drive into a average driver. The best driver still gonna win 9 out of 10 times but with a box at least I feel I have a chance. Also I rather watch TD/TS qualifying than TF/FC.

 

[clwill]

I still believe that reaction timers turns below average drive into a average driver. The best driver still gonna win 9 out of 10 times but with a box at least I feel I have a chance.

I know some feel that it helps take away the fear of the red light, which makes people more confident. But it sure doesn't make you any faster

I rather watch TD/TS qualifying than TF/FC.

Some days I feel like that too. But other days, there's just no substitute for really loud and really fast.

 

[Jeff]

Quoting Chris from above:

"Armand, you are right TD has turned into everything the sportsman classes weren't supported to be: a wallet race. Because of limited fields, you have to qualify to run, and that has made for an arms race. But the fun thing is that, if you look back over the last couple of years, all the really testosterone driven guys, the ones in the low-6s, can't dial those cars consistently, and they don't win much. But they sure do go fast!"

Wow Chris, surprised you would jump to that conclusion .... Let's take Troy Stone as an example:

NORWALK - Top Dragster Final, Round 5 Eliminations

National event in Norwalk, so he's just like the super guys, coming up when called under a lot of different conditions. Let's see he qualifies #1 with a 6.054 1320 then goes Rd 1 6.024, Rd 2 6.035, Rd 3 6.081, Rd 4 6.071, and then wins Rd 5 with a 6.063 ... while we've never raced Troy I think he's driving the finish line a fair amount ... Just doing it at 230mph.

We race in the mid 6's and can dial fairly consistently ... I'm certain you can do it down to the 6.20 range ... below that takes some talent, it is really fun to watch.

If its a wallet race, it's only a wallet race to qualify for the field (e.g. get in the low 32) then, in part, I agree with you, it's much harder for the faster folks to dial em in ... but to say "they can't" is patently wrong ... it just takes a brain to go along with the wallet.

 

[clwill]

Let's see he qualifies #1 with a 6.054 1320 then goes Rd 1 6.024, Rd 2 6.035, Rd 3 6.081, Rd 4 6.071, and then wins Rd 5 with a 6.063 ... while we've never raced Troy I think he's driving the finish line a fair amount ... Just doing it at 230mph.

That's certainly not the kind of consistency that will win reliably. You can't be swinging 5-6 hun and expect to win, without driving the heck out of the finish line. That's not a consistent car, that's a great driver. For reference, my target for consistency is 5-6 thou, not hun.

You certainly can find exceptions to the rule. But I did extensive research in November pouring through the stats. While I only examined divisions 4,5, 6 and 7, I looked at all the winners in all the divisional and national events in TD in '10 and '11. The average qualifying position for the winner was 43%.

 

[Nick Name]

No form of "racing" ( many don't agree with using that term } in which someone can be first to the finish line and loose, should be run at any event where they charge big bucks to get in... PERIOD!!

There is a place for this so called "racing". Divisionals, weekend local track events, etc.

When you charge people $50.00+ to get in and foist that stuff on them, you are killing your business.

Imagine how popular NASCAR or a World of outlaws sprint racing would be if when a race ended, it was announced that the winner was disqualified for going too quick.

There are plenty of other forms of heads up racing that could be run at national events instead of breakout "racers"

 

[Jeff]

Maybe the throttle stop racing has gone to your head ... or are you telling me that you actually set your throttle stop timer one time after the first run of the weekend and leave it there the entire weekend for all rounds of qualifying and eliminations?

Admittedly x.90 racing is not seeing much, if any, tire spin/over-rotation on the leave ... so there is some instant consistency. Tire shake is a reward for a fast car that tries to dead hook the leave ... so not only does weather (which determines horsepower) play a part, but so does starting line condition/track temperature.

And then per your research, the average winner qualified #13 ... and that proves that the slower cars have a better chance. Not sure I follow that logic.

I was mainly taking exception with your calling out the faster qualifiers and essentially saying they weren't out there with a chance to win.

We are definitely talking about two different things. Sorry for wasting your time.

 

[sdwarf36]

Perhaps you need to understand a delay box. It delays. It doesn't make you faster. If you can hit .001 on a pro tree, you can do it with or without a delay box.

Electronics don't make for faster reaction times. Electronics don't make you more consistent. Electronics don't drive the finish line. Electronics don't make an 10sec car into an 8.90 car. Electronics don't turn the racing into "stab and steer".

Let's be clear, the "electronics" we're all talking about here are timers. Just timers. Like a stop watch. No magic. It's about as sophisticated as your kitchen timer, but works in smaller times. A delay box is simply a timer that adds a fixed amount of time to the release. It doesn't anticipate the tree. It doesn't magically go back in time and take .020 out of when you released the button. It's just a delay.

And I bet you didn't know there are mechanical delay devices. Biondo and others make buttons that do the same thing in the "no box" classes.

Some of you folks really need to spend some time in the sportsman pits and chat up some of the folks there. There is SO much more to this racing than you clearly understand.

Just the simple delay you speak of is one thing-but what about the ability to take a couple of shots at the tree if you think your 1st release of the button isn't good enough?