2 Ford Pro Stockers in 2009 (1 Viewer)

[Demon]

Let's not kick those Henrys to the curb just yet.....


It's obvious that Cunningham has a lot of $$$ to fund this deal and IIRC,there was noise made about it earlier this year.The Mustang already has done well in IHRA,so it will a competitive body against the GM and Mopar cars,although the Ford might have to make a bit more Hp to get around the GXP aero advantage.The top dog Mopar IMHO,is making equal Hp to the GM rides,but the Stratus aero is not as good as the GXP/Cobalt.

 

[Johnny Mopar]

Let's not kick those Henrys to the curb just yet.....


It's obvious that Cunningham has a lot of $$$ to fund this deal and IIRC,there was noise made about it earlier this year.The Mustang already has done well in IHRA,so it will a competitive body against the GM and Mopar cars,although the Ford might have to make a bit more Hp to get around the GXP aero advantage.The top dog Mopar IMHO,is making equal Hp to the GM rides,but the Stratus aero is not as good as the GXP/Cobalt.

Chris,

I hope you're right...I'd love to see competitive Fords, but I just don't know how you create a start-up effort to be competitive and accomplish that the first year. All the years of GM research, development and testing can't be overcome in the short term. The Summit cars seem to test more than anyone...heck, they have their own test strip outside their shop. I don't know how a new team could ever overcome that advantage.

Regarding horsepower, I'd love to think you're correct but I just don't see us running the MPH that Warren and Greg do. We do out 60-foot them, and sometimes out E.T. them, but I still think we're a notch under them. Obviously Roy & Allen Johnson are the best Mopars out there. I was very dissappointed in the Morgan cars this year. Gaines was competitive, Morgan was out of the majority of qualifying fields and Max never did have enough ponies from Morgan to be competitive. It appeared to me that Morgan only had one or two decent motors at a time. I'd love to see David Nickens do well...he's a great guy.

I do believe Allen Johnson may catch the GM cars in power next season. Their engine program is easily the best Mopar program out there. The addition of Jeff Perley looks fantastic on paper...let's hope he makes a difference on Sundays. We need to start going rounds or all the power and qualifying won't mean a thing.

Wow...I'm fired up just thinking about next season. Let's go racin' boyz!

 

[Terry]

Chris,



I was very dissappointed in the Morgan cars this year. Gaines was competitive, Morgan was out of the majority of qualifying fields and Max never did have enough ponies from Morgan to be competitive. It appeared to me that Morgan only had one or two decent motors at a time.

Hmmm....interesting observation, John.....kinda looked that way to me also, considering when Morgan qualified, one of his engine customers did not..

 

[Johnny Mopar]

Hmmm....interesting observation, John.....kinda looked that way to me also, considering when Morgan qualified, one of his engine customers did not..

That was pretty obvious. Let's hope Larry finds some power this winter and can provide competitive motors to all his customers. I like Larry, but I really felt sorry for Max. It appeared he never had enough ponies to get out of the barn.

 

[Terry]

That was pretty obvious. Let's hope Larry finds some power this winter and can provide competitive motors to all his customers. I like Larry, but I really felt sorry for Max. It appeared he never had enough ponies to get out of the barn.

And the worst part of all of that was everyone on the outside was blaming the Hoosier tires and the car setup....bad deal... but hey, how would I know anything about the situation, huh, John?

 

[Johnny Mopar]

And the worst part of all of that was everyone on the outside was blaming the Hoosier tires and the car setup....bad deal... but hey, how would I know anything about the situation, huh, John?

He obviously had plenty of tire!

 

[Demon]

My personal opinion is that the GM and J&J engines are making pretty much the same Hp,but the Stratus body is the reason Mopar is 0.5-1.0 mph slower than the GXP's.Allen's MPH has beeen on par with the GM cars,just a tick slower and I hope Perley can help them overcome that.

 

[Mooseman]

The biggest thing thats going to slow the ford guys down will be engines , the last time someone had a competitive pro stock ford was Bob Glidden right? and from what I have read nobody new what was in those engines . Good luck to them though .

 

[Johnny Mopar]

The biggest thing thats going to slow the ford guys down will be engines , the last time someone had a competitive pro stock ford was Bob Glidden right? and from what I have read nobody new what was in those engines . Good luck to them though .

And if you'll remember, at the end of Bob's deal with Ford he'd lost his performance advantage. The cars are a half second quicker and 10 mph faster since Bob stopped the Ford Pro Stock engine program. I can't imagine any way Cunningham will be even close to competitive. While they're working on getting a new Ford head designed and cast, the rest of the field is maximizing their designs and combinations.

 

[HEMI6point1]

The biggest thing thats going to slow the ford guys down will be engines , the last time someone had a competitive pro stock ford was Bob Glidden right? and from what I have read nobody new what was in those engines . Good luck to them though .

Actually Scott Geoffrion (rip) drove a ZX2 to two finals in 2003. That's the last time anyone has been able to keep up in a Ford in NHRA Pro Stock.

 

[Johnny Mopar]

Actually Scott Geoffrion (rip) drove a ZX2 to two finals in 2003. That's the last time anyone has been able to keep up in a Ford in NHRA Pro Stock.

I'd forgotten about that. Who was he driving for then?

 

[squid]

I'd forgotten about that. Who was he driving for then?

Hurley Blakeney

 

[Terry]

Hurley Blakeney

The king of the turbocharged comp car if I remember correctly--Hurley and Buddy Ingersoll kinda stirred up the comp ranks with their unbelievable 200 mph performances in comp (again if I remember correctly)

 

[Johnny Mopar]

The king of the turbocharged comp car if I remember correctly--Hurley and Buddy Ingersoll kinda stirred up the comp ranks with their unbelievable 200 mph performances in comp (again if I remember correctly)

I remember that now, as well as Buddy's V-6 Pro Stocker. That drove the 500" gang cRaZy....

 

[Terry]

I remember that now, as well as Buddy's V-6 Pro Stocker. That drove the 500" gang cRaZy....

AND prompted some very quick and sweeping rule changes in PS. Again if I remember correctly, this is what caused the final move to 500 inch naturally aspirated engines only in PS.

 

[Vince]

Wasn't Bob Panella dabbling with Ford power in a Pro Stocker a few years ago? Seems he was doing pretty well if I remember correctly. I believe he even qualified for a few shows.

What I'd like to know is why Jack Roush doesn't get involved with either the engine program or fielding a car? He certainly has the resources to do it for Ford if anyone does. He could probably run it with some money skimmed off of one of his cup cars. (Just kidding-but it would be nice to see ol' Jack back at the drag strip!).

While it would be extremely nice to see some competitive Fords out there, I have to say, unfortunately, I don't see it happening. When you look at all the time and money that Chrylser and GM have invested, and where their programs are today, it would take a boatload of work to even come close to their performance level. One to two tenths is a huge hill to climb. If your wish is to see competitive Fords racing in Pro Stock, I suggest you follow the IHRA trail.

With that said, I will be pulling very hard for the Cunningham team, I hope they surprise everyone next year. I applaud their dedication and wish that the factory would only get more involved. I'm skeptical as to their actual participation in all of this. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Johnny Mopar]

What I'd like to know is why Jack Roush doesn't get involved with either the engine program or fielding a car? He certainly has the resources to do it for Ford if anyone does. He could probably run it with some money skimmed off of one of his cup cars. (Just kidding-but it would be nice to see ol' Jack back at the drag strip!).

While it would be extremely nice to see some competitive Fords out there, I have to say, unfortunately, I don't see it happening. When you look at all the time and money that Chrylser and GM have invested, and where their programs are today, it would take a boatload of work to even come close to their performance level. One to two tenths is a huge hill to climb. If your wish is to see competitive Fords racing in Pro Stock, I suggest you follow the IHRA trail.

I'm confident you won't see Jack Roush involved in a Pro Stocker. Believe it or not, he doesn't have the revenue to do it. He sold off half his team to Fenway (Boston Red Sox) Motorsports last year just to add enough cash to his efforts to remain competitive.

Your thoughts about the research and development gap that would exist are correct. Here's a great analogy....look at Warren Johnson's efforts to date. Does anyone really think you could start up a Ford program, essentially from scratch, and compete with him? Next year? Two years? I just don't see how anyone could ever accomplish that. That is the gap that exists. It won't matter how much money you pour in to the program, the mountain is just to steep to climb. A great example of this is DSR. I'm a huge fan of DSR, but look how his Pro Stock car program struggled. I remember DSR Crew Chief Bob Glidden saying "we want for nothing". He had all the money and all the parts and research he desired and still couldn't catch the GM cars or Allen Johnson. Unless you buy existing technology, which there isn't any Ford technology, there's no way to start from scratch and compete in Pro Stock...especially in a Ford.

 

[Vince]

I agree, we won't see "The Cat in the Hat" anytime soon at a drag racing event, but please, don't tell me he can't afford it. Have you seen his P-51 Mustang collection? How many people currently work for him? How many companies does he own? What's his net worth?

I don't think he's in the "richest 500 in America" class, but don't worry, Jack has plenty of resources available to fund a Pro Stock team. He could probably even talk some of his NASCAR sponsors into helping to foot the bill. He could most likely build the cars in house to save additional money if he chose to.

I just think he chooses not to, which is probably a smart business decision based on potential earnings vs costs. Above all else, Jack knows business.

 

[BlueStangGT]

Wasn't Bob Panella dabbling with Ford power in a Pro Stocker a few years ago? Seems he was doing pretty well if I remember correctly. I believe he even qualified for a few shows.

Y'all kind of have bits and pieces of the Blakeney / Geoffrion / Panella Ford thing put together.

Hurley Blakeney owned the team, the name on the side (for most of the time on the ZX2) was NitroFish before Koretsky owned the company, Scott Geoffrion drove the car... first a Mustang, then an Escort ZX2. Panella did the motors and they did quite well. Hurley had a second Mustang built for himself by Ness but sold it before he raced it, if memory serves. The ZX2 came along and they did pretty well right out of the gate, a 2nd ZX2 got built and Panella drove it. The last time a Ford qualified (and won a round, as it turns out) in an NHRA PS field was Scott's old ZX2 car driven be Vince Fourcade at Vegas 1 2004 where he qualified and beat WJ in round one.

(W) Vince Fourcade (Blakeney Racing Escort)........ 0.053 6.912 199.05
(L) Warren Johnson (GM Performance Parts Grand A0.064 6.919 200.38

Fourcade was making his first-ever eliminations run in Pro Stock and he drew a tough opponent. Fourcade was not intimidated a bit, leaving first and running quicker to take his first-ever round win. Amazing!! he advances, losing lane choice to Morgan by 0.002 seconds. Vince Fourcade's incremental margins: 60ft(0.033), 330 ft(0.035), 660ft(0.031), 1,000ft(0.024). MOV: 0.0184 seconds (approximately 5 feet).

Here's a pic of the last NHRA race that Scott and Bob drove in PS... Oct. 04:

In the Nitrofish colors' maiden voyage:

And the Mustang in what I think was its last NHRA race:

 

[Vince]

I'm guessing all of those cars ended up racing on the IHRA circuit stuffed full of Jon Kaase 800 ci monster motors. That red Nitro Fish Mustang is a beautiful looking car, and those ZX2's were very swoopy looking. Wonder how they compared to the Mustangs aerowise?

Wonder where Mr. Blakeney is these days? Haven't heard much about him. He sure shook up some folks with that small block of his.

Jim Cunningham should hire Bob Panella as a consultant on this project. He seemed to have a good handle on making Ford power back in those days. If memory serves me, he's a pretty good shoe as well. No offense Jim, but if you're going to invest all that money, you might as well have two killer drivers.

I'd say a realistic goal for 2009 would be to make a few shows, and when you look at some of the teams that failed to qualify in 2008, well, that's an indication as to just how hard it is to qulify at an NHRA event these days.

It would be so awesome to see all three of the big US manufacturers racing on Sunday again. I know the Fords woudn't have much of a chance, but it would still be great to see a couple of them out there.