WJ at Barrett-Jackson (1 Viewer)

[TOOLMAN]

Wrong,the motor is vintage 87 and of no good for todays use. Look @ it this way,how many P/S cars has WJ had over the years compared to Jenkins? If that was WJ's 83 Hurst car,it might have been a different story. WJ told me he could come up with the motor/trans/clutch etc for the 83/84 cars if somebody was so inclined to redo it. WJ supplied the motor and was in for a % of what it brought,why would he want it back? Another reason the Firenza didn't bring what Jenkins Vega did,show me ANYTHING that brought what it did a year ago. Carroll Shelby's personal 69 Cobra conv. only brought $675K and it was supposed to be @ least a Million. The Hemi cars are not doing anything either. The car hobby is taking a major hit just like the economy.

We talked with some of the sellers at the auction and they say their happy to get 50 to 75% of value. Most are selling to get out of debt or reduce their debt.There will be a decline in their values for next two to three years, when they loose money so does the industry unless you are a buyer.

 

[Nunz]

Didn't something similar happen in the late 80s? I remember muscle cars & old Ferraris and so on getting out of hand, then there was a big correction. Obviously, it has all heated up again in the past several years, and now comes another correction. Happens in the stock market, real estate, and every other industry. Gotta say one thing---That new ZR1 is one bad hombre!
Did you guys catch Leno saying hi to Linda Vaughn, and telling her something like "I remember having your picture in high school, but I won't tell you what I did with it". He is a pretty cool character.

 

[sdwarf36]

Didn't something similar happen in the late 80s? I remember muscle cars & old Ferraris and so on getting out of hand, then there was a big correction. Obviously, it has all heated up again in the past several years, and now comes another correction. Happens in the stock market, real estate, and every other industry. Gotta say one thing---That new ZR1 is one bad hombre!
Did you guys catch Leno saying hi to Linda Vaughn, and telling her something like "I remember having your picture in high school, but I won't tell you what I did with it". He is a pretty cool character.

I was doing restorations around that time-black friday in 1989 stomped alot of the silly wall street money down the drain. Ferraris that were going for $100k one day were going for $1 million the next. So when one 30 something powerbroker bragged about his purchase, his buddy had to out-do him.It wasnt the serious collectors buying-just the silly money crowd. The folks that bought + sold cars for a living ran around + bought up everything they could as fast as they could-forcing the market into a frenzy. When the bottom fell out there were alot of people caught holding the bag. What do you do now? sell your car for a $900k LOSS? It took alot of years for some cars to see the light of day again.
What I noticed about this years auction was that where there were less million dollar cars, the bottom was coming up-the annoucers considering 75-$100k cars bargin daily drivers.

 

[TV Tony]

I was there with Darrell Gwynn and Tony Stewart and Gibbs donated a cup car to Darrells foundation that sold for 300,000.00 and after all the bidding was done and Amato,Reggie Jackson,Goldberg,Craig Jackson and Ron Pratte
were through Darrells foundation recieved 495,000.00and Pratt gave the car back to Darrell to auction off at another Barrett Jackson auction.

 

[TooTall999]

Why didn't they lift the body for a couple minutes.

It was only a show motor anyways..how about the commentators calling it ready to race...what a joke...they knew nothing about the sport,even thought it was Mike Ashley sitting on the car at first.

 

[Randy]

I personally think the "insane" prices of some of these cars has helped the collector car hobby. Here's why...

Many of the 1970's muscle cars were sent out to pasture in the 1980's because of fuel costs. In 1982 I personally sold an LS5 SS 454 El Camino, cowl induction, fully optioned, etc., for $1,800 because it was in the way. A good friend bought it and still owns it and now he says it's like "money in the bank." Had he not bought it I may have sold it to my gardner. I remember seeing SS El Camino's being bought and used by gardners in my area. Why, they were cheaper than buying a truck and had enough power loaded up with tools, mowers, and a trailer full of tree branches to pull the hills at the Carbon Canyon dump. They even installed side boards on them to give them extra hauling capacity for those trips to the dump.

Rising values have caused aging baby boomers to rethink leaving that E body Plymouth out behind the garage in the weather where it was rusting away. I joke with a friend about how 25 years ago a hemi Cuda left for more than 24 hours in a super market parking lot would have finally been towed because even the car thieves would not have been interested in it.

The point is, the high price of an original hemi Cuda has saved the 318 Barracuda. The $million price of the #2 1953 Corvette has brought new life to the less valuable 1954's as was evident by the $150,000 bid on a black one at BJ's. What happened to the value of the 1949 Buick Roadmaster convertables after Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman drove one around the country in the movie "Rain Man." How many grandpa's ran out to the barn to see if the old Buick was still there? All this has become motivation for the car enthusiasts to save cars that would have been lost to the crusher.

Watching the excitement in the eyes of the bidders, consignors and crowd as a classic fetches mega bucks still makes me get up out of the chair and lift the cover on what I have parked in the garage. It gives me a little extra incentive beyond just the love of the automobile to take care of it. I know I am only the keeper of it for a while, as though somehow I have been given a great responsibilty. Some day it will move on and the next owner will have that same responsibility.

Look at the variety of sedans and coupes that went through the auction that 10 years ago no one would have given a second look. I kept asking myself "Why would someone spend thousands of hours and several tens of thousands of dollars restoring an old Plymouth Station Wagon? I certainly enjoy seeing them. I guess they do it because...they can. They are preserving history for us because the cars are now so valuable.

Randy

 

[nick name]

I personally think the "insane" prices of some of these cars has helped the collector car hobby.

I agree.

I was totally immersed into Corvettes and the NCRS back in the 1980s. I remember when no one could believe that a 67 Corvette 427/425 sold for $20,000.

About that time, I ran across a one-family LS6 Chevelle about 15 miles away from me. It had right at 40,000 miles on it and was almost perfect, totally bone stock with even the smog parts still intact.

I consulted my Corvette collector pals about buying it and to a man, they all told me I was absolutely insane to pay $7000 for a Chevelle, that it would never be worth anything. They were the only group worth talking to, as at that time the established hobby was pretty much concentrated on Model As or full classics from the 20s and 30s.

I was 20 in 1970 and lusted after a SS Chevelle but in no way could afford one. So over a decade later, I disregarded the "smart money" and bought the car anyhow.

Three years later when I was pooling my assets to start Bennett Data, I sold the car for $28,000 and considered myself a very savvy guy. The rest is history as I imagine the car would approach $200k today.

Moral of the story? Like Randy, I'm really glad that the cars are being appreciated so our children's children will be able to see them and maybe be able to understand in a small way why our hearts started racing way back when.

It's got to be an emotional thing, because one thing I learned after owning the Chevelle, 425 hp Corvettes, 375 hp Nova, a Road Runner, and a Stage 1 Buick is that the cars were no match for the expanding technology we've recently enjoyed.

As an example, if my 454/450 Chevelle was a Stock class racer, my buddy's current Z06 Corvette would have to race in Comp. It's so much superior in every way. The car is so highly tricked out from the factory that it's equivalent to being able to buy the Truppi-Kling LS6 back in 1970 instead of one off the showroom floor.

So whether it's ego, wallet wars, or a tingle in the stomach I'm still happy somebody still pays attention to these pieces of the first Golden Age.

 

[sdwarf36]

Did you notice how many "re-creations" were being sold?
I'm wondering if (as far a TV goes anyways) this is the new "choppers" 15 minutes of fame. Look at the tv shows on now where they overpay for a piece of crap sitting in a field-put a crew of 20 on it to work around the clock to roll a shiney (untested-just barely finished) car across the block trying to make a profit.
I used to do mainly imports where any alteration from original was consider blasphamy-but with the american stuff it seems the guy that has owned a 69 350 chevelle since new doesnt seem to mind to buy all the parts to make it a SS396 and sell it off as a re-creation. I'm wondering if that trend is good or bad over the long term.

PS-as I'm typing this at work, I'm sitting 3 ft away from an original boss 302 motor for a customer- going in a car hes owned since 1974-maybe all is not lost.

 

[yoda]

Although I see your point Randy, I have to respectfully disagree... Whereas true car enthusiasts may be influenced to save cars similar to the vehicles that are gathering these astronomical prices, potentially causing more of them to be saved (not always restored), car enthusiasts would have done that anyway on the "trend car" of the moment- we have seen it in the pages of Hot Rod and Car Craft- Dobertin's Pontiac, the Starsky & Hutch Torino, Pro Street anything. It doesn't save all the cars worth saving, but drag racing picks up the slack most of the time.. 68 Cudas and Darts were so prevalent in Harlem during the early/md 70's that you would have sworn that Plymouth had a plant on 125th Street..

My issue is that every yokel with cable TV and a backyard is now farming specific classic steel for the premise of putting their kids through college, clearing out the scrapyards of the semi-pristine and immediately attaching a stratospheric price tag to their booty. Living here in Arizona, we are blessed with some of the best junkyards in America, but as opposed to the acres of various project cars that used to be available for the pickins, the yards are now full of Reliants and Fairmonts, and even finding an old Nash is like coming across a $100 bill blowing down the street. Don't even think about looking for a classic Camaro, Road Runner or 'Stang. Most of those have gone to the folks that also get Premiere status at B/J. Not as buyers, but as BUILDERS.

Where building a beautiful car based on a popular body style has gone on since the days of the Model T, never before has it been as difficult not to FIND these cars as opposed to being able to AFFORD one. I hope to enjoy building a couple of cars with my kids as they get older, in particular some of the classic Mopar body styles, but as the prices for even the roughest reminants gets based upon the selling price of the current hot ride at B/J, the idea that the project will even get the foundation at a reasonable price looks bleak. And with the current trend of re-pops getting more expensive (ain't that a *****??), the sport/hobby is pricing itself right out of the wallets of those that support it best- the real car enthusiast.

 

[nick name]

My issue is that every yokel with cable TV and a backyard is now farming specific classic steel for the premise of putting their kids through college, clearing out the scrapyards of the semi-pristine and immediately attaching a stratospheric price tag to their booty.

I honestly don't think anything of substance has really changed, just that it's easy to lose sight of the passing years and relative values.

Look at it this way: I paid big money for a 15 year old car in 1985. Most of the smart money thought I was nuts since it wouldn't gain value like a true classic, the "trend" of the time.

So, here in 2008 the exact analog would be to buy a really nice, low mileage 1993 model of some sort. It's as old now as the LS6 was back then when I bought it. I'd bet you wouldn't pay all that much for ANY 93 model.

Another equalizer is the inflation of the dollar. According to the American Institute for Economic Research, a 1970 dollar is worth $5.30 in 2007 dollars buying power. The first Corvette to sticker for more than $20k was the 1982 Collector Edition. That 20k would equal $42,632 in 2007, or not too far from the 2007 sticker price. So even though the dollar figure has doubled, the amount of real spending power is the same.

Even though it's hard to believe, I firmly think that sooner or later the cars we currently consider dull will be the stars of later years' auctions.

Way back in the 1970s, a very smart guy told me that the Model A / Model T and 1930s market (very, very strong at the time in 1970s dollars) was soon to fade away. I didn't believe him at the time but he was exactly right. He realized that the market is driven by the people who have gained an age in which disposable income is available.

So almost all the people who as young people wanted those cars when they were new have passed away, and the market with it.

Trust me, there are a lot of people right now who first fell in love with a neighbor's new 1993 Camaro. They'll pay big money in 2028 when it's 35 years old and they then have money to spend on toys.

 

[Randy]

I honestly don't think anything of substance has really changed, just that it's easy to lose sight of the passing years and relative values.

Look at it this way: I paid big money for a 15 year old car in 1985. Most of the smart money thought I was nuts since it wouldn't gain value like a true classic, the "trend" of the time.

So, here in 2008 the exact analog would be to buy a really nice, low mileage 1993 model of some sort. It's as old now as the LS6 was back then when I bought it. I'd bet you wouldn't pay all that much for ANY 93 model.

Another equalizer is the inflation of the dollar. According to the American Institute for Economic Research, a 1970 dollar is worth $5.30 in 2007 dollars buying power. The first Corvette to sticker for more than $20k was the 1982 Collector Edition. That 20k would equal $42,632 in 2007, or not too far from the 2007 sticker price. So even though the dollar figure has doubled, the amount of real spending power is the same.

Even though it's hard to believe, I firmly think that sooner or later the cars we currently consider dull will be the stars of later years' auctions.

Way back in the 1970s, a very smart guy told me that the Model A / Model T and 1930s market (very, very strong at the time in 1970s dollars) was soon to fade away. I didn't believe him at the time but he was exactly right. He realized that the market is driven by the people who have gained an age in which disposable income is available.

So almost all the people who as young people wanted those cars when they were new have passed away, and the market with it.

Trust me, there are a lot of people right now who first fell in love with a neighbor's new 1993 Camaro. They'll pay big money in 2028 when it's 35 years old and they then have money to spend on toys.

I agree.

We were talking about the older Honda Civics and joking about them bringing big bucks at the 2025 BJ Auction.

Speaking of BJ, prices there and real world prices are two different animals.

Also, Dan. The picture of the 1957 Cascade Green fuelie was taken when I was driving to Force's for the 2006 Christmas Car Show. In 2002 it scored a "Top Flight" by the NCRS. Great group of guys. I also bought a 1954 Corvette that will be my next adventure when my 37 year obsession with drag racing finally wears off. Neat cars.

RG

 

[yoda]

We were talking about the older Honda Civics and joking about them bringing big bucks at the 2025 BJ Auction.

I'm clutching my heart, Randy!! Heaven forbid- but with all the rocket science that goes into some of those rides, I guess they will be considered the "hot rods" of my grandkids generation..

Speaking of BJ, prices there and real world prices are two different animals.

Absolutely, but the price increases created along with the non-enthusiast buzz has steadily kicked up the prices of even the most understated of vintage steel by association

 

[sharkman]

Martin, the best thing to do is shop around now and pick out someting reasonable, save it for when the boys get older and get interested in helping you restore it. I bought my 1972 Vette 10 years ago for 6,800 and drove it home, it wasn't mint but it was fairly decent, I tinkered on it for a few years and drove it too, last year a guy I work with gave me 15,000 for it. I turned around a bought a 1977 CJ5 Jeep from my Father-in-law for 1,500, I'm still working on it, it's a V-8 three speed, it should be really nice when I'm done. Point is, they are out there....maybe not the 66' 427 Vettes But a fairly nice 75'-77' stingray can be had for way less than ten grand. And these too will be worth some money someday.

 

[G'ginna]

Kenny has a good point. I picked up my 46 pickup for $1500, all original down to the distributor... it won't be when I am done, but the point is, there is something out there for everyone.