dboxell
Nitro Member
Glidden did do some research on the 385 "wedge" engine while he was fighting the Ford Boss429 motors
Nitromater
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When Pro Stock Got Expensive...
- Thread starter stitcherbob
- Start date
mick
Nitro Member
PS is now just like TF and FC.....same equipment, a few owners, each owner with 2 or 3 drivers...plus a few independents.
mcgaha and aj are like wilk; one man bands that can run with the others every once in a while.....apparently it's not about selling cars
anymore at all.....which driver, owner or color do you like the best.....also: noticed nobile is back w/elite for 2017
mcgaha and aj are like wilk; one man bands that can run with the others every once in a while.....apparently it's not about selling cars
anymore at all.....which driver, owner or color do you like the best.....also: noticed nobile is back w/elite for 2017
cantdrive55
Nitro Member
It's what happens when they go corporate; sponsors want clean presentable drivers. I mean without reading your mind I think I know what you're ultimately getting at. But at the same time when the costs of going professional racing have escalated to the point that racers need big money from sponsors it's a double edged sword. You can't accept a check from Napa, Matco, Mac, Summit, Jegs, Peak, Monster, or any other fortune 500 company and still keep it real. There are a few exceptions to the rule like Alexis with Patron, but those are a rarity.
Nobile would crazy to leave Elite now; they spent the better part of a year sorting out that car with the new EFI setup, and picked up a Wally at Maple Grove for their hard efforts.
Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
Face It...Might as well Rename Pro Stock Pro Summit or Pro Greg...Car counts are down...manufacturers are down... Hell, it's Greg & Jason & then everyone else! ;-) Gawd, I miss the days of Glidden, Gapp & Roush, WJ & KJ, Grumpy, Lee Shepperd!
I guess i dont understand. It was all Bob until Lee got going then Bob and Lee show for about 5 years until Lee passed. Then it was ALL Bob for the next 5 years until WJ caught up. Then the NOS boys. Hmmm tell the truth you really dislike Greg Anderson?
Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
Wayne, you're going back a long time & leaving a bit out... When Bob & Lee & WJ dominated, there were still plenty of other Pro Stockers to fill the field... Team Summit has not merely dominated, but DECIMATED Pro Stock... Low Car Counts? One Manufacturer? Technology & R&D Gap? Three Car Summit Teams? Bobby "DataCar" Humphrey? Look at P/S before the Rise of the Summit/KB Machine...and look at it now... 'Nuff Said!
Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
Not hardly. You forget who was ACTUALLY dominating (not necessarily performance wise, but winning wise) before they mandated the switch to EFI..................and it wasn't Summit. Would Greg and Jason still have dominated the 1st-year EFI had Elite not rolled the dice with the Mopar program? Maybe, but it's simply not fair to say. If all the resources spent on that program were put towards their existing GM program, they may not have lost a beat. Plus, they simply have the better drivers in that camp.
^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
And for the record, I'm a GM guy.
Sean D
Justin@NRE
Nitro Member
The reality is it got out of hand when racers were willing to start shelling out big bucks for "special" parts. It also gets out of hand when engine programs aren't based on readily available forgings and parts. The more you stray from readily available parts, economics kicks in and supply and demand starts setting the market price. Factories lose interest when they can't send you an off the shelf part. Cunningham had to put his own money up to make the molds/tooling for the blocks and heads when he tried to get Ford involved. Anyone in manufacturing can tell you how expensive it is to get tooling and molds for castings and forgings, so you need to be making A LOT of something to make it cost effective. How many units are you going to produce with those mains and bore spacing that is really custom tailored for drag racing. Not to mention all your production engines are now aluminum and your pro stock program is all iron, so chances are you can't even use the same foundry/supplier. From a raw cost standpoint, it would be cheaper to machine 5 billet aluminum blocks than it would be to cast just 5 of a custom iron block. So again, we wonder why factories and racers lose interest.
Back in the weight break hayday, they were using readily available production based parts. When they went to 500" cast iron and KEPT it there, they actually started driving up the costs and limiting factory interest. The base engine package has been subject to the same rules since 1982. 7.82 was the record established that year, 33 years later the record was set at 6.455. 1.37 seconds gained in 33 years. And in those years, how many different head and block packages have been released by manufacturers for Pro Stock? I know GM has at least 3 generations with the DRCE program. I can't speak to Dodge, but Ford did it because the racers financed it. But back to what I was saying about forging costs, an iron DRCE 2 block is $2,000 more than an iron 502 block.
Now on that same thought, how many different small block configurations have the big three released in production? Hell, Ford doesn't even have a production car with a cam still in the block other than the Powerstroke. Can't say I blame them for staying away from Pro Stock. Not taking anything away from the accomplishments of the engine builders and what they've been able to squeeze out of these motors over the last 30 years, but if you want help from manufacturers to offset some of your insane costs, you need to get with the program. Ford and Dodge are so into sportsman racing because that's their production stuff!
Back in the weight break hayday, they were using readily available production based parts. When they went to 500" cast iron and KEPT it there, they actually started driving up the costs and limiting factory interest. The base engine package has been subject to the same rules since 1982. 7.82 was the record established that year, 33 years later the record was set at 6.455. 1.37 seconds gained in 33 years. And in those years, how many different head and block packages have been released by manufacturers for Pro Stock? I know GM has at least 3 generations with the DRCE program. I can't speak to Dodge, but Ford did it because the racers financed it. But back to what I was saying about forging costs, an iron DRCE 2 block is $2,000 more than an iron 502 block.
Now on that same thought, how many different small block configurations have the big three released in production? Hell, Ford doesn't even have a production car with a cam still in the block other than the Powerstroke. Can't say I blame them for staying away from Pro Stock. Not taking anything away from the accomplishments of the engine builders and what they've been able to squeeze out of these motors over the last 30 years, but if you want help from manufacturers to offset some of your insane costs, you need to get with the program. Ford and Dodge are so into sportsman racing because that's their production stuff!
Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
Don't you miss more P/S entries? Don't you miss the variety P/S used to have? Do you Really Like Team Summit winning OVER & OVER & OVER again?
Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
I just miss the way P/S was up until recently... if today's P/S fans have drank the Summit Kool -Aid & think that the current emasculated state of P/S is fine & dandy...so be it! ;-)Not hardly. You forget who was ACTUALLY dominating (not necessarily performance wise, but winning wise) before they mandated the switch to EFI..................and it wasn't Summit. Would Greg and Jason still have dominated the 1st-year EFI had Elite not rolled the dice with the Mopar program? Maybe, but it's simply not fair to say. If all the resources spent on that program were put towards their existing GM program, they may not have lost a beat. Plus, they simply have the better drivers in that camp.
^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
And for the record, I'm a GM guy.
Sean D
while its true, Its not interesting when one team dominates, however being a Jason & Greg fan, I love watching the haters cry & moan and for what its worth if Erica and jeg have any kind of racecar next year, they will probably win a minimum of the same amount of races kb won in 2016
none
Nitro Member
I hope you will forgive me for sharing the facts, but the facts are, the Summit team dominated the first half of the season, no question. Then starting in Denver:
Allen Johnson Denver Winner
Greg Anderson Sonoma Winner
Arron Strong Seattle Winner
Drew Skillman Brainerd Winner
Chris McGaha Indy Winner
Jason Line Charlotte 2 Winner
Alex Laughlin St. Louis Winner
Vincent Nobile Reading Winner
Drew Skillman Dallas Winner
Shane Gray Las Vegas 2 Winner
Greg Anderson Pomona 2 Winner
Starting in Denver, Vincent had three #1 qualifiers, same as Greg. Bo Butner had two, Shane Gray and Alex Laughlin 1 each.
Please point to the Summit domination? Yes, they figured it out first, then the rest caught up. Looks to me like the second half of the year Drew was as dominate as Greg or am I missing something?
There is more to the story about the current Showdown cars as well, but it's not as easy as it sounds. Like the fuel cars, almost everyone thinks they need to be reigned in a bit, but no one agrees about the best way to do it.
As always just my opinion, (Well, not the facts part)
Alan
Allen Johnson Denver Winner
Greg Anderson Sonoma Winner
Arron Strong Seattle Winner
Drew Skillman Brainerd Winner
Chris McGaha Indy Winner
Jason Line Charlotte 2 Winner
Alex Laughlin St. Louis Winner
Vincent Nobile Reading Winner
Drew Skillman Dallas Winner
Shane Gray Las Vegas 2 Winner
Greg Anderson Pomona 2 Winner
Starting in Denver, Vincent had three #1 qualifiers, same as Greg. Bo Butner had two, Shane Gray and Alex Laughlin 1 each.
Please point to the Summit domination? Yes, they figured it out first, then the rest caught up. Looks to me like the second half of the year Drew was as dominate as Greg or am I missing something?
There is more to the story about the current Showdown cars as well, but it's not as easy as it sounds. Like the fuel cars, almost everyone thinks they need to be reigned in a bit, but no one agrees about the best way to do it.
As always just my opinion, (Well, not the facts part)
Alan
Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
Guess l keep forgetting The Mater these days is chock full of Summit fans... There was a time here when non-Summit fans had a voice... Not Anymore, l Guess...
Rocketman 207
Nitro Member
Seems the last few years if it isn't Greg winning the P/S championship, it's Jason... Thanks for the info, Alan...
none
Nitro Member
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
Hey Alan, since this thread started out about how early P/S started getting expensive, I would love to hear any of your stories from your early involvement in the class.
Pretty Please?
Oh yeah...if you can go to the cheating thread and can add anything you may have witnessed to it we would be forever in your debt! It gets boring in the winter!
Pretty Please?
Oh yeah...if you can go to the cheating thread and can add anything you may have witnessed to it we would be forever in your debt! It gets boring in the winter!
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
They have only won 3 out of the last 10 Championships, Jason (2011, 2016) and Greg (2010). Jeggie has won 3 himself in that same time frame. Greg went almost THREE YEARS without winning a race not long ago (ETown 2012 - Gainesville 2015). I know they dominated the first half of this season and were competitive the rest of the season, but there just isn't the data to back up your claims.
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