whatever happened to the little front tires/wheels on TFD's?

[jim]

It seems the front wheels were tall and spoked for decades, then there was the period of the small, but chubby front tires. Now they have been tall and narrow again for some time.

Is there a commonly accepted explanation for this evolution?

 

[none]

The Rascal scooter company got their patent ok'd and now have a monopoly on all small fat tires/wheels

 

[.]

It's all about tire roll out and reaction time.

 

[jim]

The Rascal scooter company got their patent ok'd and now have a monopoly on all small fat tires/wheels

Too much, LOL!

It's all about tire roll out and reaction time.

I see how tire/wheel diameter would affect how and when you break/make the timing beams, but I don't understand how racers exploit it. If you feel like elaborating, I'd sure like to read it.

 

[.]

Too much, LOL!


I see how tire/wheel diameter would affect how and when you break/make the timing beams, but I don't understand how racers exploit it. If you feel like elaborating, I'd sure like to read it.

With a bigger tire/wheel you have more room for rollout in the lights. If you shallow stage you get a short run before the tire is out of the beams. That increases your reaction time but decreases your ET since you're already moving when you roll out of the beam. If you deep stage you're closer to the finish line but you increase your chances of red lighting since you're close to rolling out of the beams when the car starts to move.

 

[davey]

Quicker E/T with the larger tires is more advantageous for lane choice and for qualifying time. If you shallow stage your R/T will be slower but your E/T will be quicker.

Also, some saw an advantage to the rudder-like qualities of the larger tires.

Brent, deep staging increases R/T but decreases E/T as you don't have a rolling start before you break out of the beam.

 

[none]

Wasn't it Jim Head, one of the real thinkers, who stated he would use front tires that were 6 feet in diameter, if he could?

I seem to remember that from some article or interview in years past.

 

[Nick Name]

I believe it was Garlits.

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Look at it this way. If you had a big enough tire, the front of it would be tripping the finish line beam just as the back of it was coming out of the starting line one.

As far as the answer to the topic question, two of the wheels and tires are on my cheapo homebuilt bracket dragster and two more of the tires are in my garage as spares. Buying them third hand off of a TAD (who I think bought them second hand off of a TF) was a LOT more "cost effective" than 17" wheels at the time.

 

[jpee]

OK not meaning to hi-jack this thread, but it plays EXACTLY into my racing tomorrow... any suggestions would be appreciated...

I'm racing tomorrow in an 11.50 index class with a .500 Pro Tree...
So all races will be "Heads Up" off a .500 Pro..of course 11.49 and u lose..

My problem we had qualifying two weeks ago corrected alt. was 2300' I knew the car I was driving would NOT run the # ...!

There were 35 trying to qualify, and you qualifying position was determined by your ET NOT your reaction time.

So I stage as shallow as I could to get as much roll-out and better ET..

I had 2 shots staging shallow I ran 11.71x and 11.74x my reaction times were .145 and .151 shallow staging...

I qualified 10th in a 16 car field I have to race the # 2 qualifier, he ran 11.57 (I don't know his RT. But I was told only 3 people had better RT than me & they were DEEP STAGING!

We managed to get about 70 lb out of the car, and the weather is looking like it will be faster... so If I stage shallow (same as last time) I should have approximately .150 RT and if it runs 11.60x ........WHAT DO I DO I can go in DEEP and have a .030-.050 light, but will lose some ET or should I stay shallow run 11.60 and do my best to chop down the tree....

The guy I'm racing is driving a ZO6 six speed, & I don't know how well he can drive the TOP END.

I'm hoping to "Tree Him" and if he does get around me he will break out...

Any suggestions would be appreciated....

 

[.]

Brent, deep staging increases R/T but decreases E/T as you don't have a rolling start before you break out of the beam.

That's backwards of everything I've ever read. If you deep stage you have less distance to move before you roll out of the beams, that gives you a quicker reaction time. Also, since you have barely started rolling once you're out of the beams the vehicle is travelling slower which would make your ET appear slower. If you shallow stage you're going faster when you pass the beams than if you shallow staged, which would give you a quicker ET.

 

[jpee]

That's backwards of everything I've ever read. If you deep stage you have less distance to move before you roll out of the beams, that gives you a quicker reaction time. Also, since you have barely started rolling once you're out of the beams the vehicle is traveling slower which would make your ET appear slower. If you shallow stage you're going faster when you pass the beams than if you shallow staged, which would give you a quicker ET.

Brent you are 100% correct! EXACTLY... look at my question and what do I do..

I'm thinking that we get two practice runs (we're already qualified) so I'll stage shallow and if the car runs 11.60 and my RT is .150 >>TOTAL PACKAGE is 11.750<< ...Now if I go DEEP and have a .050 RT and the car slows down to 11.65 the TOTAL package would be 11.70 and I'm better off going DEEP however if the car slows down to 11.80 with my .050 RT the >>PACKAGE would be 11.85<< Given this I'd be better off shallow ?

 

[Too many to list here]

Losing a rear tire with the small tire/wheel up front caused a few problems also.

 

[none]

The small diameter front wheel/tire combo came about when Garlits built his version of a streamlined dragster. He wanted the extremly low front end with the wheels covered so the car would cut a hole in the air and than drive thru it. I think this was the description Big used to describe his thinking.
Many of the drivers did not like the handling with the small front wheels and when they realized they really had no effect on speed or ET they went the way of the five cent cigar!

 

[dragstats]

i thought when jim head was racing tf that he figured out the bigger tires acted as rudders and they were actually more aerodynamic that the little tires.

 

[You!]

Paul has one of the main reasons for the small tire, but there was another one as well.

As the cars started running bigger speeds, the 17 front tires would grow at speed and actually come completely off the rim. This is what caused Shirley's horrible crash in Montreal. Garlits and others even attempted to glue or silicone the beads of the tires to the rims but that didn't work.

Some of you may even rember when Amato and Minor used funny car front wheels and tires to fix the problem.

And before Garlits discovered the airliner wheel/tire combo, he first glued heavy rubber strips to the small billet wheels he had made so they would fit under the streamliner nose piece. That was short lived however.

 

[BaldyLochs]

Those tire/wheel assemblys are actually pretty big; but compared to today - they look like little chocolate dougnuts. I knew it was either Head or Connie K. who thunk of the rudder theory; which is no surprise as both men hold FAA Pilot's licenses still today as you read this.

 

[mick]

i unofficially always thought all the racers looked at frank bradley, who
never went to the small front wheels and thought, "wow, the beard's
still runnin' the big wheels and he's cool and his dragster is cool........
and long.......and fast......better switch back to the big front wheels"

 

[clwill]

They're also illegal now... 2008 Rule Book page 271 -- minimum front wheel diameter is 17 inches.

 

[Triple Nickel II]

It seems the front wheels were tall and spoked for decades, then there was the period of the small, but chubby front tires. Now they have been tall and narrow again for some time.

Is there a commonly accepted explanation for this evolution?

If memory serves, there were 2 reasons for the change to the aircraft tires.

1) There was a series of front tire issues in the class. Don't forget (after her Sanair crash) Shirley lost a tire in the lights in qualifying at Indy. The small Goodyear aircraft tires were rated for higher speeds than the 17" Front Runners.

2) The aircraft tires allowed Big Daddy to have the aerodynamic nose that he wanted as part of Swamp Rat XXX...then everyone else (for the most part) followed his lead.