WHAT no whale tail? (1 Viewer)

Doug in the woods

Nitro Member
Last year at Phonix the big stink was over who debut the mono sytrut.
Well where is it this year??
On 1320 they intervied Big and the mono was mentioned unless the interview was from last year??
I for one wish NHRA would get back to their roots and let progress take it's coarse.
I mean whats with the fuel chassis delima. Miller has a "better" chassis but NHRAwouldn't let him run it!!
 
Last year at Phonix the big stink was over who debut the mono sytrut.
Well where is it this year??
On 1320 they intervied Big and the mono was mentioned unless the interview was from last year??
I for one wish NHRA would get back to their roots and let progress take it's coarse.
I mean whats with the fuel chassis delima. Miller has a "better" chassis but NHRAwouldn't let him run it!!

Back to their roots as in running unsafe cars? the mono tail was no bueno!

How do you know Miller's was better?
 
How do we know it isn't better
he wasn't allowed to run.
Look at the stink that the JFR cars have stired up
their new design for chassis after EM crash and then John him self has chassis issues.
Should one team set the standard for all the other teams?
Why not let knowledgeable chassis builders be allowed to build what they think is the proper design.
Look at when BIG came out with the rear engine. Did NHRA question it?
They, NHRA did put a stop to BIG's idea of running the fuel through the frame rails.BUT nothing to substantiate the ruling as BIG ran that design for years and NHRA never? said anything.
Lets get back to the roots of drag racing = inovation
 
I posted this in a previous thread


Drag racing used to be about innovation. We used to take what was available and modify it to work better and more effeciently. Now NHRA has taken away all the reasons we raced. With the standard block, heads, rear end ratios, blower overdrive, percentages..everything, its no longer about who builds a better mousetrap.

In today's environment we wouldn't have the RED because they would have never let BIG run it. Funny Cars..well they wouldn't exist because they wouldn't fit the mold.

If I was Bill Miller I would submit the necessary drawings, studies and information for an exception approval and dare NHRA to deny using it. If they denied I would sue their dirty butts until I got their attention. In the mean time I'd hire a PR firm to tell my story about the little guy who wanted a safer car but they wouldn't let me build one. The news media would love that story.

All the things that made drag racing enjoyable are gone. I for one am about done. Much as I hate toilet bowlers I think I'll start giving them my money and attention
 
I posted this in a previous thread

Drag racing used to be about innovation. We used to take what was available and modify it to work better and more effeciently. Now NHRA has taken away all the reasons we raced. With the standard block, heads, rear end ratios, blower overdrive, percentages..everything, its no longer about who builds a better mousetrap.
In today's environment we wouldn't have the RED because they would have never let BIG run it. Funny Cars..well they wouldn't exist because they wouldn't fit the mold.
If I was Bill Miller I would submit the necessary drawings, studies and information for an exception approval and dare NHRA to deny using it. If they denied I would sue their dirty butts until I got their attention. In the mean time I'd hire a PR firm to tell my story about the little guy who wanted a safer car but they wouldn't let me build one. The news media would love that story.
All the things that made drag racing enjoyable are gone. I for one am about done. Much as I hate toilet bowlers I think I'll start giving them my money and attention

John, you're not done just mad and rightfully so. Heck, look what nascar has done. 43 Identical cars racing at one time, only way you can get an edge is break the rules and hope you don't get caught. Bottom line is all about liability and lawsuits. Only thing saving the sport of auto racing is our healthy addition to go back each week.:D
 
............Bottom line is all about liability and lawsuits......................:D
It's more than that, the sport was pricing itself out of existance. Tony Shoe, Alan johnson, John Force, Greg Anderson can burn $$$ with the best of them, and out innovate all of them. Before you know it, there would be only a handful of wealthy car owners left, and zero competition.:rolleyes:
 
It's more than that, the sport was pricing itself out of existance. Tony Shoe, Alan johnson, John Force, Greg Anderson can burn $$$ with the best of them, and out innovate all of them. Before you know it, there would be only a handful of wealthy car owners left, and zero competition.:rolleyes:


I'm sure glad they got the costs under control...said tongue-in-cheek.
 
I'm guessing that the mono stut may re-appear some day - maybe 2009. It was so cool. The way I see it - its only the lack of true leadership in Glendora that's to blame for ingenuity such as this being constantly frowned upon.
Darrell Russell's death (and it's pending law suits) put the fear in NHRA's to brass slow down the fuel cars. The mono-strut was suddenly viewed though their eyes as a liability.
Then Dan Olson came on board at NHRA and gave David Powers a "tentative" ok to move forward with its developement. It was tested - and it worked well. The problem at the time was the fact that Fuller was running so well - without it - and leading the points chase. Powers appeared to do the prudent thing - put the monostut on ice and concentrate on the new "Countdown to a Crapshoot" and the eventual title. It's the old "don't try to fix it if it ain't broken" mentality which was the wise thing to do for someone in David Powers position.
Well, Fuller went on to have a great year - and should be the one with the championship trophy - but that's another topic. As the year 2007 went on I believe that a few more nails went into the monostrut's "casket" with Eric's tragedy and John's horrific accident. These insidents made it crystal clear to NHRA that "we've got a BIG problem brewing here". The LAST thing they would endorce at this point in time is a device that will theoretically increase trap speeds such as what a monostrut wing design might do. Giving final approval to a monostrut is probably on the bottom of NHRA's to-do list.
Since that horrible day in Dallas NHRA's leadership deficiencies have only become more magnified - for all of us to see. It's just so sad to see this sport I love so dearly being marginalized by a few "corporate minded suits" who care more about building sky boxes than the lives of their own drivers - the ones that fill those sky box seats. Afer all these months the chassis builders are still in a quandary as to what to do and what's going to be legal. Bill Miller - one of the sharpest minds in our sport - goes outside the box and gets the expert advice that is so vital at this time (and the data to back it up) - and builds a better chassis. We all know the "thankyou" he got from NHRA for all his time and personal expence. Unbelievable.

So - I'm thinking that if and when all this chassis controversy ever gets settled and Goodyear figures out how to build a tire that's actually safe at 335 mph we'll see team owners and crew chiefs starting to think about monostruts - not only for the performance benefits but for the added safety that this design brings.


John Waters;

I hear ya man. I remember going to the Winternational or the US Nationals every year with much anticipation, because I knew that someone would be debuting something entirely new - and never seen before. It was awsome.

Now - I'm just going through the motions when I go to a race. IHRA has actually been my saving grace the last decade with their Pro Mod class. At least there was a little diversity.

I was a fan of all forms of racing - and even a huge NASCAR fan. Now it's a series made up of GQ magazine looking "pretty boy drivers" driving cookie-cutter kit cars that have all the sex appeal of the bumper cars at the local carnival. Their driver interviews are about as intesting as that of a "pull string" doll. And 35 pre-qualified cars at every event :eek: What's that all about?
The IRL has they Pinocchio-nosed kit cars, Champcar has their rather bland looking kit cars driven by spoiled mega-rich South American nobodies. F1 holds some interest for me because of the advanced technology - but when was the last time you saw an actual pass for the lead - on the track? I'm starting to really enjoy the non-winged sprint cars but there's not to much tv coverage. The Daytona Prototypes are also coming into their own. They put on a good show at Daytona on the weekend.

Hope you 'Mater guys don't mind me sharing a few opinions.;)

Dale
 
Back in the day we ran a 354 with a 5/8 arm, a 392, a 426 and a Donovan 417. We experimented untill we had a slider clutch when we thought no one else was even trying that concept. We changed the WB, stagered the frontend, and tried to hide it all from our competitors who were doing exactly the same things. None of that exists today. Its becoming boring. I think the real development is being done on the dirt ovals in small town America. That's where it used to happen in drag racing..at the fuel meet at MO-Kan raceway in Kansas, at Lions on a friday night and so on.
 
Back in the day we ran a 354 with a 5/8 arm, a 392, a 426 and a Donovan 417. We experimented untill we had a slider clutch when we thought no one else was even trying that concept. We changed the WB, stagered the frontend, and tried to hide it all from our competitors who were doing exactly the same things. None of that exists today. Its becoming boring. I think the real development is being done on the dirt ovals in small town America. That's where it used to happen in drag racing..at the fuel meet at MO-Kan raceway in Kansas, at Lions on a friday night and so on.

MO-KAN Raceway still alive and going strong. Lots of memories there.:D
 
You guys bring up a lot of great points. That's why it's great looking at old photos and footage, the diversity among the cars was unreal in the early days, and each season you really anticipated the new cars. However, even though we may laugh at attempts to control costs because it is so outrageously expensive, could you imagine what would happen if all the rules were thrown out the window? Remember, this sport has been around for 50+ years, so any new technology or great idea is going to cost huge dollars, even for the slightest gain. And it already costs huge dollars to just maintain the status quo. The old days were great, but they'll never be repeated, I think we have to just enjoy the sport for what it has to offer today. I'm still addicted! For anyone longing for the innovation of the old days, check out NHRA.com's Photo of The Week, it's the Powers Steel 'Vette from '81. Great looking car.
 
Gotta agree with Jerrod.

The verticle stab, the "whale-tail", if not mounted absolutely square and completely unmovable will "steer" the car, mainly at high speed. Aircraft have ways of "trimming" to correct its path, dragsters don't.

In this day of a lawyer-happy society where you can sue for just about anything, innovation unfortunately takes a backseat. The sanctioning rules now become legal documents of evidence, good or bad.
 
what is the purpose of innovation? to experiment until you get the best possible product. well, you can only build so many types of air inductions until you get the best one. same with aerodymanics and every other goofy thing tried on a rail car. maybe the concensus is whats out there right now is the best, and it really can't be improved on with current technology.

if you think about all the crazy "innovations" attempted on fuel cars, none of them lasted very long because NONE OF THEM WORKED! the basic design of dragsters has stayed the same for 20 years now because it's the best design.

in the close championship battles of today, i surely wouldn't risk losing 20 points on something i'm 75% sure wouldn't work.
 
what is the purpose of innovation? to experiment until you get the best possible product. well, you can only build so many types of air inductions until you get the best one. same with aerodymanics and every other goofy thing tried on a rail car. maybe the concensus is whats out there right now is the best, and it really can't be improved on with current technology.

if you think about all the crazy "innovations" attempted on fuel cars, none of them lasted very long because NONE OF THEM WORKED! the basic design of dragsters has stayed the same for 20 years now because it's the best design.

in the close championship battles of today, i surely wouldn't risk losing 20 points on something i'm 75% sure wouldn't work.

Us old FED guys just knew a RED wouldn't work. Couldn't keep it in the groove, wouldn't go straight, sitting that far forward wouldn't allow enought time for the driver to react if it got crossed up. Easy to see how that worked out.
 
Us old FED guys just knew a RED wouldn't work. Couldn't keep it in the groove, wouldn't go straight, sitting that far forward wouldn't allow enought time for the driver to react if it got crossed up. Easy to see how that worked out.

100% correct, but eventually you're going to refine a design so much it becomes (as close as you can get to) perfect.

was it fun watching eddie hill with that 4 foot long air collector, or gary ormsby's aero cars? sure. but things like that aren't tried anymore because they've been proven either useless or unpractical....imo

here's innovation for you:
The Rocketman
 
Last edited:
100% correct, but eventually you're going to refine a design so much it becomes (as close as you can get to) perfect.

was it fun watching eddie hill with that 4 foot long air collector, or gary ormsby's aero cars? sure. but things like that aren't tried anymore because they've been proven either useless or unpractical....imo
It wasn't too many years ago that the setback blower hadn't been proven. How many years had they been running superchrgers on drag racing engines at that point? ;)
 
100% correct, but eventually you're going to refine a design so much it becomes (as close as you can get to) perfect.

was it fun watching eddie hill with that 4 foot long air collector, or gary ormsby's aero cars? sure. but things like that aren't tried anymore because they've been proven either useless or unpractical....imo

here's innovation for you:
The Rocketman

With all due respect to your opinion Big wasn't the first to build a RED. The first appeared about in about (I think) 1958 at the Nationals in OKC. It now is housed and on display at the NHRA museum. Everyone thought it was proven unpractical until Connie Swingle told Big Daddy to slow the steering down. Sometimes you just have to throw away all the accepted designs and start new. Sometimes you just can't see a small change will make it work tenfold better becaue your just to close to the problem. The point is you have to have the flexibility to try to improve existing designs and try new designs. Under today's rules Ed Donovan and Keith Black would never have built the aluminum(sp) block. Using your logc Goodyear will never build a better/safer tire which we so badly need. JMHO
 
I was there when the "Whale Tail" made it's last test run. Ask Hot Rod why it never returned. HE will be happy to tell you. It wasn't NHRA that told them to put it away.

And you guys need to make up your mind. If NHRA lifts all restictions then in six months AJ will have his own engine, Coil and Medlin will have theirs and........ Let's see, who else in Nitro racing has a shop that can manufacture a completely new design engine?............Oh that's right, NOBODY. Then what would the Denshams, Worshams, and Wilkersons do when JFR and AJ won't sell them the new stuff? Even the Snakes and Bernstiens and Kalittas of the world would be hurting. I'm sure BAE would start to make a new design as well but if your existing cranks, blocks and heads are all obsolete, the investment to race would be unbelievable.

The way it is now, for the most part, everyone has access to the same engine parts, and we get to see who the best tuner and driver are.

Think about this, if NHRA had NOT instituted the rear end ratio rule how many spare rear ends would you need? A 3:20, a 3:10, a 3:00, a 2:90 at least two of each. Still think that was a bad rule?

And don't forget how many drivers didn't want to wear fire suits, build better roll cages or use titanium clutch cans when those rules were passed.

Times change

As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, I am NOT speaking for NHRA or anyone else,

Alan
 
Ways To Support Nitromater

Users who are viewing this thread


Back
Top