What Can't The NHRA Do This?

[Fireball]

From Wiki:

Because the track was built between two roads, U.S. Route 40 and Refugee Road, National Trail Raceway was known to have one of the shortest (post-finish line) shut down areas of any event on the NHRA national event schedule. In the early 1980s, the NHRA and National Trail Raceway used catch-nets on Springnationals weekends to help stop some race cars that couldn't slow down enough to safely turn off the end of the race track. But, in 1984, Top Fuel Dragster driver Doug Kerhulas had a problem stopping his race car by the end of the shut down area and drove his car into the catch-net, as drivers were instructed to do. Though the catch-nets did stop his race car from going onto Refugee Road, the sudden stop caused by the nets also nearly killed him. So, in 1986, the nets were replaced by sand pits. Ironically, Funny Car racer Gary Phillips couldn’t slow down in time and drove his car into the sand pits. But he was carrying so much speed, his car still went through the sand pits, across Refugee Road, and into farmer Herb White's front yard. The race car did not hit any vehicles and was able to miss the farmer's house.

The NHRA and National Trail Raceway eventually worked out a deal with the Ohio State Highway Patrol to close down that area of Refugee Road during Springnationals weekends. This allowed National Trail to connect the end of the shut down area to Refugee Road, giving drivers a little more room, if needed, to stop their race cars safely. And they worked out a deal with Herb White to move the sand pit to the side of his front yard, just in case.

 

[Rat]

From Wiki:

Because the track was built between two roads, U.S. Route 40 and Refugee Road, National Trail Raceway was known to have one of the shortest (post-finish line) shut down areas of any event on the NHRA national event schedule. In the early 1980s, the NHRA and National Trail Raceway used catch-nets on Springnationals weekends to help stop some race cars that couldn't slow down enough to safely turn off the end of the race track. But, in 1984, Top Fuel Dragster driver Doug Kerhulas had a problem stopping his race car by the end of the shut down area and drove his car into the catch-net, as drivers were instructed to do. Though the catch-nets did stop his race car from going onto Refugee Road, the sudden stop caused by the nets also nearly killed him. So, in 1986, the nets were replaced by sand pits. Ironically, Funny Car racer Gary Phillips couldn’t slow down in time and drove his car into the sand pits. But he was carrying so much speed, his car still went through the sand pits, across Refugee Road, and into farmer Herb White's front yard. The race car did not hit any vehicles and was able to miss the farmer's house.

The NHRA and National Trail Raceway eventually worked out a deal with the Ohio State Highway Patrol to close down that area of Refugee Road during Springnationals weekends. This allowed National Trail to connect the end of the shut down area to Refugee Road, giving drivers a little more room, if needed, to stop their race cars safely. And they worked out a deal with Herb White to move the sand pit to the side of his front yard, just in case.

Wow, thanks for the history lesson.

 

[NYNitro86]

E Town was my home track from the mid seventies until I came back to the west in the eighties. I was on the starting line when Sammy Miller clocked a 4.80 in 79'... At that moment, it was known that racing on that track as we knew it was never going to keep up with the future... I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it did (Sammy told me that the trees were coming up on him at an unbelievable rate as he was HARD on the binders- enough to smoke the body bubbles on the front fenders).

And Englishtown is one of the crown jewels on the NHRA circuit. And it's not big enough for the sport we've become.

Is the fix longer tracks or slower cars?

This year they are cutting down a lot on that event, at this rate, unless Dave Napp books him for a thrill show, Frank Manzo for the first time (Correct me if I'm Wrong) will NOT make a single pass at his home track for 2012 as TAFC is NOT contested at the National nor Divisional Event. and I hate to say it I wonder if and when will NHRA Drop Englishtown for Epping once that track is ready? Then E-town can become a FELD Motorsports venue to hold Nitro Jam and Even Monster Jam events (Monster Trucks and Tom Meents are the popular elements of the track, why not book over a dozen Monsters and have the FELD Motorsports backing?). *Rolls eyes*

I love this track but I see it dying within a few years.

 

[Jon Asher]

Lance Peltier, I wonder about NHRA being able to promote the sport by emphasizing the difficulties of racing different distances. There’s something else to consider as well, and that’s fan response. While we’d all like to go back to the full quarter mile, those tracks that are physically unable to do so (Pomona and Bandimere immediately come to mind) would be at a major disadvantage with those people intent upon only seeing full quarter mile racing. I’m not saying it would happen, but it’s at least conceivable that the two Pomona races could be complete financial busts as every SoCal fan goes to the two Vegas races instead.

Joe Sherwood is right. It’s tough to switch tune-ups between races.

Chris Williams, there’s a considerable difference between adjusting a tune-up for a once-a-year outing in Denver and other tracks. Temperatures, while indeed important, don’t require the kind of major changes that racing between 1000 feet and 1320 would demand.

One thing we all need to keep in mind regarding what’s going to happen in Australia is the total number of cars involved. While they can fill an 8-car Top Fuel field with ease, that’s not the case with F/Cs, which don’t run in open competition as a result of a lack of entries. This is not going to be comparing oranges to oranges, but rather, oranges to catfish filets.

Further, “monitoring the season” from 8,000 miles away is problematic at best, and I, for one, would take anything coming from ANDRA with more than a little skepticism.

Sorry, Joe, I don’t agree. I know a lot of guys who go through Denver with zero parts breakage – year after year.

At last, someone brings up the salient point (Dale Finch): Tire safety. Goodyear is a lot happier at 320 than they’ll ever be at 335-plus, and we all know that that’s where speeds will go. Dan Bennett is also correct in his Goodyear comments.

Sorry, Dave Patterson, but I believe you’re incorrect on this one. In my conversations with virtually everyone on the NHRA management team at one time or another on this subject I never once heard anyone suggest they prefer 1000 feet over the full quarter mile. It’s actually the opposite and no, I have no intention of going back over what brought us to the shorter racing distance in the first place.

The situation in Australia is very different from ours. They have fewer tracks to begin with, and too many of them weren’t being used at all. This plan might work for them, but I don’t think it will for us.

To my knowledge, Patrick Keenan, the insurance company has never had an opinion on race distance. This was solely NHRA’s decision.

Bill Sweeney, there is NO way Keenan’s was the “Most Naïve Post Of The Year 2011.” There just had to be something “better!” I think John Farr’s is even more naïve (no offense intended, John!).

No kidding, Jay Eshbach!

Joe Sherwood: TTS (Tracks Too Short) – Bandimere Speedway, Englishtown, Maple Grove.

Steve Bullard’s post is spot on. If NHRA had been able to successfully, and cost effectively, find a way of slowing the cars we wouldn’t be in this position now. Blame that on the now-departed Dan Olson, who came up with something so complex and costly (which didn’t work, by the way), that it angered the race team owners to the point that they wanted no part of it.

Further – and to me this is THE key point – by the time this had all shaken out the DRIVERS themselves had come to the conclusion that they didn’t want to run that last 320 feet.

If you could come up with a list of drivers who regularly compete on the NHRA trail who desperately WANT to return to full quarter mile racing, you might be on to something, but that’s what this whole post lacks – a list of drivers wanting to do that. Read Lance Pelier’s post on this subject. He’s right.

Patrick Keenan, sorry, but at venues like Bandimere and Norwalk, there IS no room behind the sand trap. Bandimere has expanded as far as it can, and is stymied by the side of the mountain the track is on. In Norwalk’s case an operating airport (Okay, it’s not O’Hare, but it is licensed and open) is right behind the sand trap. Next?

Bill Sweeney, where’s your corroboration for this statement about the insurance carriers? Without factual backup your statement has no validity. Where did/does your information come from that the insurance carrier mandated 100 feet?

Okay, so when you guys get finished your esoteric arguments about track length, I hope someone goes back to what I said above: Find the drivers who want to return to full quarter mile racing, and then maybe you’ll have at least a starting place for this discussion.

BUT, it won’t matter what those drivers say, because from the NHRA perspective, until there’s a solid, well thought out and concrete method of slowing the cars to say, something like a maximum of 4.7 seconds in Top Fuel and maybe 4.85 in F/C. with speeds right around 310 for T/F and proportionally less in F/C, nothing is going to change.

Please! I just suggested “neighborhood” numbers, and let’s also keep in mind where Goodyear would be on this, because without them there IS no fuel car drag racing.

And, since no team is going to make the effort to slow the cars and then demonstrate it to NHRA, the push has to come from inside 2035 Financial Way, and since it appears obvious they aren’t going to do anything, this entire conversation is moot.

Happy New Year!

Jon Asher
Senior Editor
CompetitionPlus.com

 

[mike]

so are we talking the 2 or 3 dozen nitro drivers or the hundreds (or thousands) of other drivers?

because one way or another NHRA has to pick one length and stick to it... and IMO, no matter what the nitro crew chiefs and drivers might think, it makes much more sense to do the bite the bullet and slow the nitro cars than to have EVERYONE else switch to 1000'

but I'm tilting at windmills...nobody that counts is interested in going back to 1320...it's only the fans and they don't really matter right?

 

[Toejam]

Jon, on your TTS (Tracks too short) I think Norwalk has to be on that list! Second, 2 different drivers have told me about running at Denver, Jim Head and the Late Ray Higley. Granted this was back before 1000' so maybe that was a Huge factor.

So now I ask....would be be running 1000' had the Scott Kalitta incident "NOT" happened?

Second.....How many drivers at the Short tracks have put cars in the Sand at a High rate of speed in recent years! I remember Tony Pedregon and Mert Littlefield have at Pomona, fortunately neither was injured! How many others????

 

[Huge]

Jon, on your TTS (Tracks too short) I think Norwalk has to be on that list! Second, 2 different drivers have told me about running at Denver, Jim Head and the Late Ray Higley. Granted this was back before 1000' so maybe that was a Huge factor.

So now I ask....would be be running 1000' had the Scott Kalitta incident "NOT" happened?

Second.....How many drivers at the Short tracks have put cars in the Sand at a High rate of speed in recent years! I remember Tony Pedregon and Mert Littlefield have at Pomona, fortunately neither was injured! How many others????

Del did an end over end in the sand at Pomona.

 

[NYNitro86]

Jon, on your TTS (Tracks too short) I think Norwalk has to be on that list! Second, 2 different drivers have told me about running at Denver, Jim Head and the Late Ray Higley. Granted this was back before 1000' so maybe that was a Huge factor.

So now I ask....would be be running 1000' had the Scott Kalitta incident "NOT" happened?

Second.....How many drivers at the Short tracks have put cars in the Sand at a High rate of speed in recent years! I remember Tony Pedregon and Mert Littlefield have at Pomona, fortunately neither was injured! How many others????

In the Kalitta Question, NO.

Pomona I remember John Force's flip from 1989.

 

[buster]

How old is this chart? No zmax on there and I know Malpe Grove had the paved shutdown area extended.

 

[Toejam]

In the Kalitta Question, NO.

Pomona I remember John Force's flip from 1989.

Rob, Force was maybe going 260 then, but if you have to go back 20+ years your proving my point!

 

[e]

.....Hi, guess my post # is going to be at 1, but I was reading about the lenght of dragstrip posts and figured I'd chime in............At another board we were disscussing this same thing a year or two ago and found out the chart was done by Bret Kepner (long time drag writer) around the middle of 2008..........As soon as the one with the red line was released he made the change to take that mistake out so it wouldn't be so hard to figure out..........That is also the reason it seems just a bit dated.............He also put in both Columbus distances to show before and after the change at the end of the strip...........Meant to post this a couple of days ago when the topic was still being talked about, but got goofed up with the registration.........Yeah, my fault with that !!!.....................E