Unfilled fields

[Jenn]

Jenn, I was refering to post #6 ...something about letting current A/F cars run a blower. Maybe I misunderstood him. I thought he meant let them bolt on a blower and run T/F

Okay, I understand that as putting those cars in A class, not THE Top Fuel Class.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

They already are in A class...TAD. If you want to form a blown fuel class for them, isn't that T/F ???

 

[Von Halen]

8 teams. 1000' racing. A potential part timer winning the series. All reasons I am glad I have not renewed tickets, and have decided to stop going to NHRA events.

I totally disagree with anyone that thinks this is no big deal. It hasn't been this bad in a long time. If the major players are struggling to afford to go racing, I don't think more opportunities are going to be created for the lesser funded teams. This economy is affecting them too.

Recently, there has been a lot of empty seats in the stands at several events. There will be a lot more in 2009.

 

[Ron]

I can't agree more, John. IHRA was very agressive with a similar program in 2000-2001 and the Saturday night eliminations were packed with fans at most venues. It eliminated a complete day of expenses for the teams, association, and host tracks. The programs went by the wayside because some very short-sighted track operators complained that they lost an entire day of revenue. Huh? You read that right. Track operators were somehow thinking that their books should have shown another day of revenue despite the fact that that event day no longer existed! For the record, those events turned better profits that the alternative Thursday-Sunday schedule. Duh.

I'd love to see NHRA make expense-related concessions for their star classes. Eliminating qualifying laps and making the events shorter in duration would seem like a great first step. In the competitive media exposure game, wouldn't it be in drag racing's best interest to be the first events completed each weekend? With a Saturday night finish drag racing would have a better media position in the Sunday morning reports. It could stand to increase the value our the series to potential sponsors.

That works out for the IHRA because at most races there are few people at the Sunday eliminations and their revenue loss from ticket sales, concessions etc. is minimal. This is not the case with the NHRA from what I see on TV. Usually on Sunday the stands are fairly full. Eliminating these ticket sales and associated revenue would be a large financial hit to the NHRA and the track operators.

Does the average fan really give a dam whether the cars run 330 or 280, e.t. at 4.5 or 5.0? I think not. Either way they make a big racket and shake the ground.

If it is really desired to decrease team operating costs than a wholesale change in the rules is the way to go. We can all argue about what the changes should be but the overriding criteria should be the absolute decrease in operation costs considering everything that goes into the cost structure.

Even high buck F1 is changing the rules to decrease costs by an estimated 50% in the next two years. The HRA's might take a clue from those who are at the top of the racing world.

All other forms of motor sports discovered long ago that absolute maximum performance is irrelevant to drawing fans and no don't start with the "drag racing is different". It isn't when viewed from the entertainment perspective.

When times are good all forms of motor sports get carried away with extravagant expense structures. The down times are a good opportunity to restructure the rules to get the costs down to a sustainable level which BTW in the HRA's they weren't even in the good times as evidenced by the year to year shrinking car counts.

 

[Jenn]

They already are in A class...TAD. If you want to form a blown fuel class for them, isn't that T/F ???

I'm not entirely sure, but if I remember correctly they wanted a differentiation from Injected Nitro to Blown Alcohol. One type tended to dominate the other depending on factors such as the weather and the track.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

I'm not entirely sure, but if I remember correctly they wanted a differentiation from Injected Nitro to Blown Alcohol. One type tended to dominate the other depending on factors such as the weather and the track.

Oh I agree with that 100%. I've been against A/F in TAD for years. Run A/F vs A/F.
Run Blown Alky vs Blown Alky. Eliminate the pairity problems. The same for the PRO/MOD class. Seperate Nitrous from Blower cars..

 

[The Counterfeiter]

It's not adding A/F to Top Fuel, it's converting A/Fuelers to Top Fuelers. Which many who are more familiar with both classes would say isn't too hard since there are a lot of former Top Fuel chassis in TAD fields right now. I don't have my rule book handy to see what the differences in the chassis but I would say that they are pretty close just by looking at them.

Jenn - TAD/AF chassis are SFI Spec 2.1, TF is Spec 2.3N. TF cars also have a very different wing spec (49.1). A/F cars also have a maximum of four clutch discs as opposed to six for TF. Not quite as simple as bolting on a blower!

 

[Jenn]

Jenn - TAD/AF chassis are SFI Spec 2.1, TF is Spec 2.3N. TF cars also have a very different wing spec (49.1). A/F cars also have a maximum of four clutch discs as opposed to six for TF. Not quite as simple as bolting on a blower!

I knew it wasn't quite that simple, but I know there were a lot of former fuel cars out there that are of a higher spec than neccesary for TAD.

 

[yoda]

a great topic of discussion. the suits at nhra should be banging their heads against the wall trying to devise a plan to get 16 in each class at each event. what's more is the fact that you may only have 5 or 6 cars in each nitro class making passes during certain qualifying sessions. if that's the case, say goodbye to the folks buying 3 day passes.

funny...

Glendora has moved away from the original concept that Wally envisioned, and become as much a promoter of an event as your ClearChannel/AEG Live (and to some accounts, Feld Entertainment ()concert producer. ... With that said, they are only responsible for the show, not for making sure there are players in it.

They don't build them, they don't sponsor them, and they are pretty sketchy on the amount they actually financially support them. You can bet that the Army team appreciated the checks, but their funding was primarially through the stickers on the side of the car and not from the big cardboard checks on Sunday. And they won most of them.... Be one of those teams that saw the final round from the TV in their hotel room or airport waiting lounge..

All these teams have a responsibility to procure their own funding- its not NASCAR. If you want to go big, you had best be able to have a package to sell to someone with even more duckets than you. And hope that their boat will weather the forthcoming financial storms and still be afloat to participate in what, for all basic terms, is advertising on the side of a small Saturn rocket..- not a lot of TV time, and most of the time the logo is not really accessable for most people to see.

NHRA can't put more cars out there, plain and simple. They can't make it cheaper- that horse has left the barn. And NHRA will suffer the effects of letting things get out of hand financially when their take at the gate is reduced like their qualifying fields and their race legnth. Hopefully a group like PRO is looking into hireing a major Madison Ave. marketing firm to help put teams together with (rapidly dwindling) major money, because most of the teams out there can't seem to get themselves into boardrooms (too many snowboarders and extreme MX guys in there already gettin in the way...)

 

[Tim5636sc]

Great post Martin i agree 100%

 

[sparky]

I agree with everything Martin said, except the "horse has left the barn" part.

These cars CAN be made to run more economically. Crews, hotel rooms and transportation will still be huge expenses but for heaven's sake do they really need the huge blowers, large pumps and all the spendy trick s**t to put on a great, entertaining show. So it cuts off a few tenths..... Who really cares.

Its the sounds, smells and two cars running side by side that hooked me on it over 30 years ago.

I hope to see new blood in the game but at these costs they will be long shots (at best) to ever get there. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Toejam]

Part time and low budget TF racers like Strausburg, Boychuk, Gunderson, Hartley, Novelli, Zizzo, Pustari, and even Arley Langlo stand to benefit from the lack of 14-16 hard-core, full-time teams. This can open the door for some teams that have been parked (Stevens Family comes to mind) and for some alky racers to take the leap into the limelight. Don't forget about the die-hard IHRA teams like Litton, McMillen, and the rest. There are plenty of existing TF teams that will take shots at the NHRA shows in 2009.

How many TAD racers would love to see Bill Reichert give TF a shot? Or how about Tom Conway, Joe Monden, Duane Shields, or a Ron Boggs effort in the category? Point being...every time TF and FC have been "weak" on car count, there has been an influx of aspiring racers join the fray. While we'll have a number of short fields in 2009, there will be planty of part-time players filling the chasm and making next season one of the most interesting in history. Hell...what if Langlo starts winning rounds at left-coast races??????

I wonder if NHRA would allow Reichert, Shields or Whitely to show up with their Alky/A-Fuel combo's and qualify for TF??? That would be hilarious...

 

[Big Sexy]

I wonder about the rules package differences between IHRA and NHRA in terms of chassis certification. If I recall, the IHRA has a different chassis rule, and this could be a problem.

If NHRA has 9-12 funded teams, you can count on maybe 2-3 part time teams at select events, and I would be very surprised to see many full fields in TF.

The FC class is also going to be tight, but not as bad.

I don't have the magic spell to make it all work, but I think the NHRA needs to identify which events may have field problems and start making calls to other teams with low budgets and find ways to get them to the event. Maybe up the qualifying money, limit the amount of qualifying runs to three, etc. I don't think it will be a simple fix, the NHRA was waited to long and that train has left the station. Now it is a reactionary move and not a proactive move.

Some may ask how this is the NHRA's fault, and while I don't put the blame 100% on them, they had, and have, options to help reduce the cost of owning and running one of these cars. All forms of motor sports are working on cost cutting moves to help them survive. F1 is doing this, NASCAR is trying, and NHRA needs to get out in front of this. They are paid to make the though calls and to be innovators.

 

[Professor Dave]

Some may ask how this is the NHRA's fault, and while I don't put the blame 100% on them, they had, and have, options to help reduce the cost of owning and running one of these cars. All forms of motor sports are working on cost cutting moves to help them survive. F1 is doing this, NASCAR is trying, and NHRA needs to get out in front of this. They are paid to make the though calls and to be innovators.

I've always contended that the goal in getting back to 1/4 mile racing should be safety and cost reduction. Make changes in the rules that will reduce speeds and reduce parts carnage simultaneously.

 

[yoda]

I wonder if NHRA would allow Reichert, Shields or Whitely to show up with their Alky/A-Fuel combo's and qualify for TF??? That would be hilarious...

Not realy that hillarious, if you think about it... The premise of coming up with so many classes was to allow balanced competition when there was money flowing and times were good. How many times have you looked at class racing and thought "What's the difference?"? The idea of allowing anyone that thinks they "brought enough" to step up in a pro class that is similar in design, as long as the cars meet all the safety requirements for the upgrade and the driver is (obviously) licenced to for the car that he/she is competing in, then eliminator crossover (one way upgrade per event) could be an interesting way to fill up some pro fields and in some way, bring back that old school feeling when blown AA/FD lined up against injected nitro cars in days past.

No rule changes- if you run A/FD or BAD and feel you have the muscle to take your shot against Top Fuel, you should be allowed to step up.. Same for the flopper classes, and some of the Comp cars are P/S anyway...




Hell, you could even get your entry fee waived....


Crap... now I realize why we'll never see this...