Thiel was not treated fairly (1 Viewer)

[my friends call me Zappy]

Paul:

I've read all your posts. No disrespect but it sounds like you didn't see what happened or don't understand the timing system. Nobody was ever fully staged (car A). After a stage light "flicker" (that was not caused by "car A" in car A's lane...and should not have activated autostart under any circimstances), car A finally stages after about 6 seconds and in less than 3 tenths of a second the tree activates. The scenario you posted above has nothing to do with what actually happened.

RG

Randy, John was indeed fully staged, or he too would have red lighted.
Thiel never staged, thus the red light.

My understanding of autostart is; after 3 lights are lit (at the same time)the timer starts.
Had thiel NOT lit his pre-stage, then John could have lit both his lights and Thiel would have been in control of when the timer started.

Am I wrong??

 

[Jeff]

Exact same thing happened today at a bracket race at RPR (still better known as Houston Raceway Park), the racer, who is a frequent winner locally and in big money bracket races (and was pitted next to me) went up to the tower to complain. It was first round, and he could buy back, but faired no better than Thiel. He was shown the "anti-flicker" setting in the PC . . . he told me how long but I honestly forget . . . 4/10ths to 6/10ths of a second is what I recall. Anyway, to a racer that is an eternity and he said his competitor flickered the bulb for a hundredth or so, but nowhere near as long as the anti-flicker setting was supposedly set for. Pretty interesting to see lightning strike twice so quickly, on the same staging system, of course.

 

[twostep]

Johnny West had hands-on after the car was in the beams- that is a textbook and rulebook example of a DQ.

I'd like to see the section in the rulebook prohibiting touching the car after it prestages. Not a challenge, just asking, because I've looked and I can't find it. I see the section that prohibits touching during the burnout but not after pre-stage.

Even without being there, I can almost certainly guarantee Force's flicker was either RF interference or something (other than his car) breaking the beam momentarily - a bug, gum wrapper, frog (that actually happened once), or whatever. I've been told several times the Autostart system has a .6 second 'fudge factor' built in. The flicker wasn't nearly that long, which leads me to believe this was an electronic glitch, which unfortunately bit Thiel.

As for Force's 1.29 RT, he was obviously confused by the early red in Thiel's lane. I'm sure he remembers the double early-start DQ a while back, and wanted to make dang sure he had a solid green before he smacked the pedal.

Goodwin got this deal right. And to answer his question about a crew member's foot activating the system after RS has thrown the switch, absolutely it will. The beam doesn't know a shoe from a tire.

 

[You!]

Did they get rid of the blue line? You couldn't touch the car at all after it passed the line which was a few feet before you reached the first bulb.

 

[Shaggy]

Carl, I have been looking over the rulebook as well and cant find anything either... This is all I have found besides the rule during the burnout...

THE FINAL STAGING MOTION, USING APPLIED POWER, MUST BE IN A FORWARD MOTION, GOING FROM PRE-STAGE TO STAGE POSITION (this procedure does not apply to motorcycles).

A reasonable amount of time will be permitted for drivers to stage. The time limit will be determined at the sole and absolute discretion of the official starter. Failure to stage upon the starter’s instructions is possible grounds for disqualification. After proper staging and receiving the starter’s signal to go, restaging for a second time is prohibited. Any driver leaving the starting line before the start system is activated, including a driver on a single run, will have his or her time disqualified for the run.

 

[MM]

There was a memo that went out to all the teams at St. Louis last year

 

[twostep]

Carl, I have been looking over the rulebook as well and cant find anything either... This is all I have found besides the rule during the burnout...

Same here. Maybe it's in the '11 Rulebook; the latest copy I have is 2010. Looks like if they passed around a memo of such importance in St. Louis in 2010, they'd put it in this year's rulebook.

Good rule, though. Wonder if Stewart would have caught the infraction if the timeout incident hadn't happened.

 

[Shaggy]

Actually my quote was direct from the 2011 rulebook... I forgot to look over the suplemental stuff...

 

[yoda]

Every driver's meeting I've been to has had either the Race Director or the starter make it a very clear point that crew is hands off when the car hits the first bulb. Phoenix, Vegas, Fontana, Sacto, Tucson, Speedworld, E Town, Chicago, Moroso.... If it wasn't a written rule, it seems to have been carried over anyplace that cars went down the track by the rules- even if those rules were local. Not a bad idea IMO

 

[twostep]

Sounds like it's more of a logical thing, something that doesn't need to be written in a rulebook. There's nothing in the book that prohibits spray painting your windshield black, either, if you get my point.

 

[DrRocket]

I looked at my copy of the 2011 book, and Eric's post is spot-on.

It says NOTHING about touching a car once it's in the staging beams, either pre-staged or staged.

Besides, if a crew member isn't supposed to touch the car after it lights the pre-stage light, what about all the crewmembers who hit the data recorder switches after the pre-stage bulb it lit?