Thiel was not treated fairly (1 Viewer)

[Shaggy]

Mike... I am not blaming Force or special treatment... Sorry if it sounded that way... What I am saying is if the rocking in and out of the beams caused the autostart to start, then Force should have been DQ'd for being out of the beams after his car started the autostart countdown... Not meaning he backed out on purpose...

 

[yoda]

Mike... I am not blaming Force or special treatment... Sorry if it sounded that way... What I am saying is if the rocking in and out of the beams caused the autostart to start, then Force should have been DQ'd for being out of the beams after his car started the autostart countdown... Not meaning he backed out on purpose...

How could he have purposely "backed out" at all??? The car was always in a forward gear...

MM is right- car was deep in prestage and vibrations nudged the stage beam (probably by the fender or the chassis)- that would be the place to start looking, if anyone is looking at all (3" ground clearance to the spindle).

 

[Shaggy]

How could he have purposely "backed out" at all??? The car was always in a forward gear...

MM is right- car was deep in prestage and vibrations nudged the stage beam (probably by the fender or the chassis)- that would be the place to start looking, if anyone is looking at all (3" ground clearance to the spindle).

I am not saying he purposly backed out, not even where I was going with it... If the autostart is started by Forces car, Forces stage light shouldnt be out... If Forces car is no longer breaking the beam that started autostart, the car should be DQ'd no matter how it happened... And this goes for any car, not just Forces...

The thing is, it comes down to **** happens sometimes...

 

[Randy]

That "flicker" could have been caused by anything. Static interference, the fuel fumes coming fom Brian's car closing the beams, a stray cat, etc. Force wasn't close enough to the beams to trigger a flicker and there's no way he backed out. Brian was screwed.

I think Brian had to have been offered a gift certificate to Ruth's Cris' Steakhouse or something for keeping his cool and playing it down in the interview. If it was my car my team would have been holding signs in the backround with that famous football game/barnyard chant written on them..."BS...BS...BS."

Per the rulebook, in the pro ranks, drivers are required to drive the cars and computers are not allowed to do any functions in the race car except to monitor events and report them on the download. Why can't the start of the pro races also be a function of a person (starter) and not some automated computer controlled process prone to screw up (most recently Edward's comes to mind)? The guy is already standing there, and it makes him look like an idiot every time something like this happens.

JMHO.

RG

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Force didn't "back" out. His car was fully staged when the tree cycled, as it should be, so why DQ him??

You've staged up before, have you never flickered a light trying to go in shallow??

The auto start is a good thing, removes human error - and is totally unbias- helps prevent burn downs. You want to adjust the times OK, but don't put it in the hands of the starter, please.

What happened was unfortunate, but not a equip malfunction...driver error.

 

[Shaggy]

Force didn't "back" out. His car was fully staged when the tree cycled, as it should be, so why DQ him??

You've staged up before, have you never flickered a light trying to go in shallow??

The auto start is a good thing, removes human error - and is totally unbias- helps prevent burn downs. You want to adjust the times OK, but don't put it in the hands of the starter, please.

What happened was unfortunate, but not a equip malfunction...driver error.

Maybe you should read the rest of my responses where I explain what I was talking about...

 

[Tony]

Totally agree John. I'm hoping that Rick will be retiring sometime soon, but then again, I don't think a new starter will change anything given the powers that be!

It sure is easy to be critical from the comfort of a keyboard. Maybe the NHRA should let the Chronic Complainers from the NitroWhiner take turns at the starter position since it's so easy. They could start with Michael and John, and I'll donate a case of DEPENDS to the cause!

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Sounds clear to me. You are wanting to DQ the only car that staged properly in the alotted time.

They all know when the third light is lit, you have 7 seconds to get staged.
Thiel sat 8 or more. Failure to stage in time = red light. (period)

 

[Shaggy]

Sounds clear to me. You are wanting to DQ the only car that staged properly in the alotted time.

They all know when the third light is lit, you have 7 seconds to get staged.
Thiel sat 8 or more. Failure to stage in time = red light. (period)

Evidentally Thiel didn't know the clock had started or he wouldnt have been timed out... And Force DID NOT stage properly if he started autostart and his car was no longer staged, whether it be intentional or not... And yes he was considered staged to start autostart...

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

You are correct, evidentally neither knew, look at John's RT 1.29. (shame on both)

Correct again, he was considered staged to start autostart.....
and he was the ONLY one considered staged when the tree came down....
or he would have also red lighted.

(side thought) with John being so late, I wonder if Thiel would have won if he would have staged..........??

 

[big guy]

There alot of ifs,and or butts in this thread.The bottom line is Thiel`s car was touched after the first stage light was set.He should of been disqualified anyway.End of story.One way or the other.

 

[MHayes]

It sure is easy to be critical from the comfort of a keyboard. Maybe the NHRA should let the Chronic Complainers from the NitroWhiner take turns at the starter position since it's so easy. They could start with Michael and John, and I'll donate a case of DEPENDS to the cause!

Funny stuff there Tony, glad to see you keep Depends on hand!

 

[*******]

It sure is easy to be critical from the comfort of a keyboard. Maybe the NHRA should let the Chronic Complainers from the NitroWhiner take turns at the starter position since it's so easy. They could start with Michael and John, and I'll donate a case of DEPENDS to the cause!

Having worked the staring line at a racetrack myself and started everything from junior dragster to promods,A/F cars and jets I can speak first hand. The job is not as easy as it looks and lots of variables come in to play BUT absolutely the worst thing to ever happen is the invention of Auto Start. It takes all the control out of your hand for strange or weird events such as this.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Having worked the staring line BUT absolutely the worst thing to ever happen is the invention of Auto Start. It takes all the control out of your hand for strange or weird events such as this.

Interesting statement.....Mr. Green I have a question, as a starter what would you have done ?? You have car A fully staged - car B is pre-staged but just sits there with the roofhatch open...... Do you let car A burn down ???

As far as taking control out of the starters hands, I see that as a good thing. Autostart is NOT impressed by big name drivers-owners-sponsors, or anything else. It preforms as programed period.

 

[Randy]

Interesting statement.....Mr. Green I have a question, as a starter what would you have done ?? You have car A fully staged - car B is pre-staged but just sits there with the roofhatch open...... Do you let car A burn down ???

As far as taking control out of the starters hands, I see that as a good thing. Autostart is NOT impressed by big name drivers-owners-sponsors, or anything else. It preforms as programed period.

Paul:

I've read all your posts. No disrespect but it sounds like you didn't see what happened or don't understand the timing system. Nobody was ever fully staged (car A). After a stage light "flicker" (that was not caused by "car A" in car A's lane...and should not have activated autostart under any circimstances), car A finally stages after about 6 seconds and in less than 3 tenths of a second the tree activates. The scenario you posted above has nothing to do with what actually happened. Keep in mind Force likes to stage last and many drivers like to "push him along" within the rules (Cruz, for example) and let him stage first.

One thing I would be worried about now is whenever a crew member accidentally steps in the beams when directing the driver up to the starting line. Does that mean autostart has begin to count down if RS has thrown the activation switch?

RG

 

[kegs]

Randy

We were running our altered in a match race against Dave Hix in Seattle, Hix prestages while Pulde has his foot in the beams bringing Howell in, Hix's thinks we are prestaged and pulls in, auto start begins and we get timed out. Didn't get to make the run.

 

[Reese]

I thought that you had to be staged for a certain amount of time before autostart takes over. I know Steve Johnson will flicker the bulbs on you to mess with your mind(maybe why L.E. redlit against him?) if he knows you have a performance advantage on him. Never saw him get the red buld because of it or the other bike get counted out.

 

[nick name]

I thought that you had to be staged for a certain amount of time before autostart takes over. I know Steve Johnson will flicker the bulbs on you to mess with your mind(maybe why L.E. redlit against him?) if he knows you have a performance advantage on him. Never saw him get the red buld because of it or the other bike get counted out.

You're right, and a lot of the posters on this thread seem to be unaware of that fact.

At least when the system was first installed, I guarantee you there was a time threshold that had to be met before the system would start its countdown. I remember it was a fairly significant amount of time - like one second or so. The explanation was that it would prevent what apparently happened in this instance.

I honestly don't know if the autostart got changed or whether the clocks malfunctioned in this case. There's a lot more to the starting system than most people realize. I've seen a lot of cases where it was modified to solve a problem but the change created two or three new problems. I don't envy Jeff Foster at all. He has a very hard, thankless job.

 

[PDQ]

QUESTION: If you start the auto start then back out but get back in before the auto start starts the bulbs do you beat the red light?

 

[yoda]

QUESTION: If you start the auto start then back out but get back in before the auto start starts the bulbs do you beat the red light?

No one with a brain in their head would EVER pull in then put the car in reverse. So the term "back out" is a misnomer...
Pulling in to pre-stage and having something lower than the 3" minimum break the beam momentarially, or as RG has suggested, maybe electronic cross-talk that messes with the system (a little confused with that one, RG- are you suggesting that the mags or something in the timers may have interfered with the electronics in the starting system?), triggered the time out system to activate.

John obviously answered your question: he did get back in before the bulbs got a signal to go, and beat the red-light. Just barely.

Johnny West had hands-on after the car was in the beams- that is a textbook and rulebook example of a DQ.