Tasca injuries (1 Viewer)

[Sean D, shondoo]

Common sense tells me not to stand in front of a 10k HP car idling at 2800 RPM in gear. Common sense tells me not to stand in front of any running car in gear.In the case of Scott it was not the trip into the sand it was the boom truck parked in the sand trap, common sense Huh ? Do not park a 30k LB lift in the shut down area.

It's ^^^^^THAT^^^^^ simple boys, like it or not. Especially his point about why we're racing 1,000-feet.

I get what Alan is saying with regards to percentage of recurrence, but the bottom line remains that the impact of that rare mistake has a much higher percentage of being bad...….really bad. Personally, I just don't get why there isn't some kind of guard around the throttle mechanism, or like mentioned before a larger opening. Seems like a no-brainer from that aspect. If the occurrences are either because of the body tagging the throttle on the way up or down and the throttle getting hit while messing with the throttle stop, it would appear that 50% of those occurrences could get all but eliminated with the addition of a guard and larger opening. We'd still have the issue with humans touching the mechanism while dealing with the throttle stop, but again, we're talking about a 50% reduction.

Just thinking out-loud here....

Sean D

 

[Butch]

I've lifted and lowered a few bodies in my time without any problem. We always had a
Logghe Chassis, A Body by Bergler, And maintained by Dick and myself. Making
sure everything fit properly.
I've only seen it happen once, in the mid 70s that was at Englishtown with a lowbuck nitro car being
hauled by a Travel trailer with the back cut off. Does that give you the idea?

I agree with Allan on this topic.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

I've lifted and lowered a few bodies in my time without any problem. We always had a
Logghe Chassis, A Body by Bergler, And maintained by Dick and myself. Making
sure everything fit properly.
I've only seen it happen once, in the mid 70s that was at Englishtown with a lowbuck nitro car being
hauled by a Travel trailer with the back cut off. Does that give you the idea?

I agree with Allan on this topic.

Ok...….....

I won't make any assumptions on your post, but my guess would be that your intentions with your question, "Does this give you the idea" would be that you're calling out the one incident you witnessed as being as a result of some folks that may have been in over their head, being "lowbuck", and hauling the way they were. I'll take that at face value and agree with it in that incident, but I don't think I'm ready to classify the Tasca group in that category...…...

I guess my point of using the words I did (no-brainer), is that it's obvious there is more lateral movement available in raising and lowering a funny car body than there is room in the cutaway for the throttle linkage to absorb and not touch. All things being perfect, it obviously works fine. But one slip and that deal can get bad real quick. As a team owner, and I pretty much said this same thing after the incident with Pedregon at Indy, the instant that happened on my team my first reaction would be, "Holy sh!t, that could've been bad...…" and our next move as a team would've been to address that, whether it was fabbing a guard, cutting the hole larger or investigating whether or not the lateral movement of the body could be tightened up; SOMETHING.

I guess I'm just saying I'm surprised measures haven't been taken, mandated or not. If I was a team owner for a funny car and this happened resulting in ANY kind of injury, I would feel horrible. But I would also feel extremely guilty, especially knowing that it's happened before and we didn't at least take some measures to counter it. And maybe some of the teams already have, I don't know. I would think/hope so, and if so, props to them.

Sean D

 

[JHOLE]

Ok...….....

I won't make any assumptions on your post, but my guess would be that your intentions with your question, "Does this give you the idea" would be that you're calling out the one incident you witnessed as being as a result of some folks that may have been in over their head, being "lowbuck", and hauling the way they were. I'll take that at face value and agree with it in that incident, but I don't think I'm ready to classify the Tasca group in that category...…...

I guess my point of using the words I did (no-brainer), is that it's obvious there is more lateral movement available in raising and lowering a funny car body than there is room in the cutaway for the throttle linkage to absorb and not touch. All things being perfect, it obviously works fine. But one slip and that deal can get bad real quick. As a team owner, and I pretty much said this same thing after the incident with Pedregon at Indy, the instant that happened on my team my first reaction would be, "Holy sh!t, that could've been bad...…" and our next move as a team would've been to address that, whether it was fabbing a guard, cutting the hole larger or investigating whether or not the lateral movement of the body could be tightened up; SOMETHING.

I guess I'm just saying I'm surprised measures haven't been taken, mandated or not. If I was a team owner for a funny car and this happened resulting in ANY kind of injury, I would feel horrible. But I would also feel extremely guilty, especially knowing that it's happened before and we didn't at least take some measures to counter it. And maybe some of the teams already have, I don't know. I would think/hope so, and if so, props to them.

Sean D

That should have been - Ok....... Mr. Canoles ...

Also. what alot of people here seem to be missing, is that they assume things from their own lack of experience and knowledge... Since most people have not owned, run, crewed, or spent alot of time actually racing something like a funny car, they assume that they are qualified, could just step in, and are qualified to fill any role - if things were different and they just had the time / resources....

WRONG.

What a number of people who are commenting here are missing - is that the guys who crew / lift bodies / mix fuel / support the sport.... are actually very experienced, trained, skilled, trusted, and well beyond the level of posting comments, and anecdotal stories of things they read or heard..

It may seem to some, that the body lift guy might not be the most integral part of a race team... But that speaks more to your understanding, than it does to the reality of actually racing...

...and if you think that any regulation / jig / bracket / switch / or mandate will make racing simple enough to meet your level of predictability / understanding.... pffftt... that aint racing..

 

[M Jones]

If it can't happen to a experienced trained professional, explain how this happened with a trained professional,

 

[JHOLE]

If it can't happen to a experienced trained professional, explain how this happened with a trained professional,

Why would I entertain a thought that you started, and couldn't finish..??


If there isn't a walkout / strike / shortage / outcry for action of the people who actually perform the task... Why would it raise to a point of any action...???

Looks like alot of people being overly engaged in something that doesn't concern them...

Ya' know... There used to be THOUSANDS of people in this country that could actually put " raise a funny car body" on their resume.. Realistically, there's probably only a couple hundred that do it now in any meaningful way...

But somehow, NOW is the time to take some kind of action to save the lives of the few savvy individuals that are left - fully capable of doing it on their own , voluntarily...???

....And, apparently , the perfect people to come up with the answer, and appropriate regulatory mandate / restriction / rule / oversight / penalty for non-compliance / and phase-in for implimentation....

Is a forum of people who never have - and probably never will actually be tasked with the action .....

Huh.

I hope that you understand my lack of desire to seriously engage in entertaining the thrust of your post as being near the level of a query that demands an answer...

 

[mikebcurve]

And this is why you will rarely see me post here again (I’m sure I will be oh so missed, lol.). It seems this needs to be either a racer only site or a fan only site. I’ve been around this sport my whole life. I’d like to think I understand enough to have an opinion even though I may be wrong. It’s like we are told you’re not part of the inner circle so go mind your own business and leave this to the trained professionals. Some of you really need to get over yourselves. There is nothing wrong with a fan being concerned with safety. We don’t want to see the trained monkeys get hurt.

 

[TD5023]

And this is why you will rarely see me post here again (I’m sure I will be oh so missed, lol.). It seems this needs to be either a racer only site or a fan only site. I’ve been around this sport my whole life. I’d like to think I understand enough to have an opinion even though I may be wrong. It’s like we are told you’re not part of the inner circle so go mind your own business and leave this to the trained professionals. Some of you really need to get over yourselves. There is nothing wrong with a fan being concerned with safety. We don’t want to see the trained monkeys get hurt.

You are right in that there is nothing wrong with being concerned with safety. It is very important and not to be taken lightly. However, more and more rules will have a greater effect in pushing people out than actually protecting the ones still there. DSR added canopies to their TF cars as a safety improvement even though they weren't forced to. It's great that it's an option, but if it were made a rule, I bet many part-timers would never be heard from again (I can't speak for them, though, so I could be dead wrong about that). A small concern of mine right now is that some of the TF and TAD safety stuff will make its way down to TD. If it does, I will probably be priced right out. Minimizing risk is important, certainly, but some has to be accepted for the overall health of the class and organization.

 

[James]

That should have been - Ok....... Mr. Canoles ...

Also. what alot of people here seem to be missing, is that they assume things from their own lack of experience and knowledge... Since most people have not owned, run, crewed, or spent alot of time actually racing something like a funny car, they assume that they are qualified, could just step in, and are qualified to fill any role - if things were different and they just had the time / resources....

WRONG.

What a number of people who are commenting here are missing - is that the guys who crew / lift bodies / mix fuel / support the sport.... are actually very experienced, trained, skilled, trusted, and well beyond the level of posting comments, and anecdotal stories of things they read or heard..

It may seem to some, that the body lift guy might not be the most integral part of a race team... But that speaks more to your understanding, than it does to the reality of actually racing...

...and if you think that any regulation / jig / bracket / switch / or mandate will make racing simple enough to meet your level of predictability / understanding.... pffftt... that aint racing..

Dude, this is an opinion site. If your incapable of reading others opinions with out belittling them your not qualified to be on this site.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

That should have been - Ok....... Mr. Canoles ...

Also. what alot of people here seem to be missing, is that they assume things from their own lack of experience and knowledge... Since most people have not owned, run, crewed, or spent alot of time actually racing something like a funny car, they assume that they are qualified, could just step in, and are qualified to fill any role - if things were different and they just had the time / resources....

WRONG.

What a number of people who are commenting here are missing - is that the guys who crew / lift bodies / mix fuel / support the sport.... are actually very experienced, trained, skilled, trusted, and well beyond the level of posting comments, and anecdotal stories of things they read or heard..

It may seem to some, that the body lift guy might not be the most integral part of a race team... But that speaks more to your understanding, than it does to the reality of actually racing...

...and if you think that any regulation / jig / bracket / switch / or mandate will make racing simple enough to meet your level of predictability / understanding.... pffftt... that aint racing..

Seems you may have made some assumptions of your own. Might I suggest that before you launch condescending hand grenades from that pedestal of yours, you make sure you're not surrounded by glass. I have no doubt you've been around the sport a while. I've been around it for over 40 years myself, with 30+ of that being a driver/participant, so this is also far from my first day. The fact that I wasn't able to ascend to the fuel ranks certainly doesn't exclude me from having the sense to contribute to a discussion regarding possible issues, much less participate in a discussion on a message board.

And to Mr. Conoles, if you in any way, shape or form took my post as offensive, my apologies. There are a few on this board that I have been around more than once in-person and they know that's not who I am. But on the other side of that, I'm not going to tolerate condescending remarks from anybody just because they're more "qualified" than I am, whether it's perception or fact. I've had more than my share of success in this game despite the little amount of seat time, so when it comes to discussions, I can assure you I'm more than qualified to at the very least participate, as are plenty of others on this board.

Sean D

 

[JHOLE]

Seems you may have made some assumptions of your own. Might I suggest that before you launch condescending hand grenades from that pedestal of yours, you make sure you're not surrounded by glass. I have no doubt you've been around the sport a while. I've been around it for over 40 years myself, with 30+ of that being a driver/participant, so this is also far from my first day. The fact that I wasn't able to ascend to the fuel ranks certainly doesn't exclude me from having the sense to contribute to a discussion regarding possible issues, much less participate in a discussion on a message board.

And to Mr. Conoles, if you in any way, shape or form took my post as offensive, my apologies. There are a few on this board that I have been around more than once in-person and they know that's not who I am. But on the other side of that, I'm not going to tolerate condescending remarks from anybody just because they're more "qualified" than I am, whether it's perception or fact. I've had more than my share of success in this game despite the little amount of seat time, so when it comes to discussions, I can assure you I'm more than qualified to at the very least participate, as are plenty of others on this board.

Sean D

Sorry , but, I didn't aim any condescension, jab, nor tweak at you personally... Read it again. Merely observational facts concerning human nature, general forum tendencies, and pointing out that the guys who do the work are not some delicate, ignorant snowflake - nor just a goon filling a menial task.

The point was that these are intelligent people who know full well what they are doing - and, in fact all of the crews / chiefs / drivers / and owners tend to have their own slight differences in handling any of these issues... It seems abit pathetic for some knee-jerk reaction to an isolated occurrence , to decide that some prophylactic device should be mandated that would make the sport risk-free . In fact, I find that to be more dismissive, and offensive to the crews that actually do the work - than anything you may have misinterpreted from my post... Feel free to participate ... I've got to figure out how to get down from here... Friday's the day I do all the windows...

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Sorry , but, I didn't aim any condescension, jab, nor tweak at you personally... Read it again. Merely observational facts concerning human nature, general forum tendencies, and pointing out that the guys who do the work are not some delicate, ignorant snowflake - nor just a goon filling a menial task.

The point was that these are intelligent people who know full well what they are doing - and, in fact all of the crews / chiefs / drivers / and owners tend to have their own slight differences in handling any of these issues... It seems abit pathetic for some knee-jerk reaction to an isolated occurrence , to decide that some prophylactic device should be mandated that would make the sport risk-free . In fact, I find that to be more dismissive, and offensive to the crews that actually do the work - than anything you may have misinterpreted from my post... Feel free to participate ... I've got to figure out how to get down from here... Friday's the day I do all the windows...

Fair enough.

With the amount of (or in this case, lack thereof) occurrences with this particular issue, I'm not even saying I don't agree with you, Harry and Alan to some degree, but again, one slip (and a minor slip at that) and somebody could get messed up really bad......or worse. And like I posted earlier, I would like to think that some teams have actually taken some measures to prevent such a thing happening, especially when you consider the possible consequences. I know these folks are trained and for all intents and purposes know what they're doing, but it still has managed to happen, as well as hurt some folks in the process.

We've seen more than once case of isolated incidents producing actions, knee-jerk or not, in the name of safety. Medlen, Scott K. and Earnhardt come to mind, and I'm sure there's more if I wanted to dig hard enough. That said, I actually agree with your statement regarding making the sport completely risk-free (which is an impossibility no matter what level of attention it would ever be given).

Sean D

 

[Huge]

If fans are really that concerned about safety at the race track then they probably should push for NHRA to stop letting fans in the pits after the racing starts, like Supercross, Indy car, and Nascar does. Because that is where the real danger is. I guess it is a good thing that this is my last race of a 22 year career in racing doing every job that some fans seem to think is to dangerous and unnecessary even though not one time have I ever felt unsafe on the starting line doing my job...now standing next to the fence watching or riding to and from the track is a different story. Most people that know me personally know why.

 

[mikebcurve]

If fans are really that concerned about safety at the race track then they probably should push for NHRA to stop letting fans in the pits after the racing starts, like Supercross, Indy car, and Nascar does. Because that is where the real danger is. I guess it is a good thing that this is my last race of a 22 year career in racing doing every job that some fans seem to think is to dangerous and unnecessary even though not one time have I ever felt unsafe on the starting line doing my job...now standing next to the fence watching or riding to and from the track is a different story. Most people that know me personally know why.

With all do respect this is the condescending stuff I am talking about. Fans are not part of my inner circle so mind your own business. Then others from that inner circle comes by to pile on more. I'm not sure if you feel the pits is where the real danger is because of the trained professionals or the untrained fans. I've felt more unsafe walking through the busy parking lots than I ever have walking in the pits.

If you have never felt unsafe up that close to a beast like that you are a bigger man than me. I know I've felt unsafe in the stands when funny car bodies have come over the fence and landed on top of spectators or just a few years ago when an alcohol dragster tire blew right off the starting line and a huge piece shot 500 feet in the air and landed right by an unsuspecting lady behind me. If it landed 2 feet closer it would have no doubt killed her. Do we not have the right to an opinion when we are in just as much danger watching these cars as the people working with them? Maybe we selfishly don't want to be mentally scared for life watching a bunch of over confident professionals kill themselves before our eyes. Maybe the fans are just a bunch of uneducated nuisances that should have no opinion and stay away from the racetrack.

I'm curious. With talk of how experienced these people are do they only put veterans on the job of lifting a body? Every season lots of new faces come in from tech schools across the country who have almost no experience. They have to put them somewhere. I know when I've started new jobs I make a lot of mistakes due to inexperience no matter how much training I've had. A little safety guard over a throttle doesn't sound like it would put teams out of business or be so unnecessary that it warrants such a strong pushback to OPINIONS as it has here. Antron had the wheel sheer off one time that I know of. After that I hear it was decided the studs would be replaced more often. It may have never happened again but it was immediately addressed I'm assuming because a spectator was killed. Do we just wait for a fatality to fix infrequent issues?

 

[Huge]

With all do respect this is the condescending stuff I am talking about. Fans are not part of my inner circle so mind your own business. Then others from that inner circle comes by to pile on more. I'm not sure if you feel the pits is where the real danger is because of the trained professionals or the untrained fans. I've felt more unsafe walking through the busy parking lots than I ever have walking in the pits.

If you have never felt unsafe up that close to a beast like that you are a bigger man than me. I know I've felt unsafe in the stands when funny car bodies have come over the fence and landed on top of spectators or just a few years ago when an alcohol dragster tire blew right off the starting line and a huge piece shot 500 feet in the air and landed right by an unsuspecting lady behind me. If it landed 2 feet closer it would have no doubt killed her. Do we not have the right to an opinion when we are in just as much danger watching these cars as the people working with them? Maybe we selfishly don't want to be mentally scared for life watching a bunch of over confident professionals kill themselves before our eyes. Maybe the fans are just a bunch of uneducated nuisances that should have no opinion and stay away from the racetrack.

I'm curious. With talk of how experienced these people are do they only put veterans on the job of lifting a body? Every season lots of new faces come in from tech schools across the country who have almost no experience. They have to put them somewhere. I know when I've started new jobs I make a lot of mistakes due to inexperience no matter how much training I've had. A little safety guard over a throttle doesn't sound like it would put teams out of business or be so unnecessary that it warrants such a strong pushback to OPINIONS as it has here. Antron had the wheel sheer off one time that I know of. After that I hear it was decided the studs would be replaced more often. It may have never happened again but it was immediately addressed I'm assuming because a spectator was killed. Do we just wait for a fatality to fix infrequent issues?

To start with I wasn't being condescending and being a big man has nothing to do with feeling safe and no one has said you can't have your opinion and that it is not respected. Raising the body is done for more reasons then just to make adjustments. They are also looking for anything that might be wrong under there that could cause a safety risk to the driver and the fans in the stands that you are talking about. I made my comment about the pits because that is where I have seen the most accidents at the race track. So that should answer your question about do I want to see some one killed before action is taken. The reason I mentioned standing next to the fence is because that is where Jeff Diehl and I were standing when a blower snout shot straight at us and hit the fence post I was leaning on. If not for Jeff telling me to hit the dirt then I may not be typing this right now. I would like to discuss more but right now I have to head to the track.

 

[cdag]

If fans are really that concerned about safety at the race track then they probably should push for NHRA to stop letting fans in the pits after the racing starts, like Supercross, Indy car, and Nascar does. Because that is where the real danger is. I guess it is a good thing that this is my last race of a 22 year career in racing doing every job that some fans seem to think is to dangerous and unnecessary even though not one time have I ever felt unsafe on the starting line doing my job...now standing next to the fence watching or riding to and from the track is a different story. Most people that know me personally know why.

Not gonna be the same without you out here. I'll miss ya buddy!

 

[mikebcurve]

To start with I wasn't being condescending and being a big man has nothing to do with feeling safe and no one has said you can't have your opinion and that it is not respected. Raising the body is done for more reasons then just to make adjustments. They are also looking for anything that might be wrong under there that could cause a safety risk to the driver and the fans in the stands that you are talking about. I made my comment about the pits because that is where I have seen the most accidents at the race track. So that should answer your question about do I want to see some one killed before action is taken. The reason I mentioned standing next to the fence is because that is where Jeff Diehl and I were standing when a blower snout shot straight at us and hit the fence post I was leaning on. If not for Jeff telling me to hit the dirt then I may not be typing this right now. I would like to discuss more but right now I have to head to the track.

Fair enough. You may have been an undeserving victim of other comments made in this thread.
The bottom line for me on this subject is that issues sometimes need to be addressed from higher up to save people from themselves. No matter how smart or trained someone is for others to suggest they will just be more careful now is just as silly as to suggest if you haven't worked on these cars your not qualified enough to have an opinion.

 

[mgty3whlr]

Kevlar vests and a helmet for the fans, All Good! Just kidding Folks.

 

[mikebcurve]

Kevlar vests and a helmet for the fans, All Good! Just kidding Folks.

You can't put that kind of financial burden on us. You're going to go and put half of us out of the spectator business, lol.

 

[mgty3whlr]

You can't put that kind of financial burden on us. You're going to go and put half of us out of the spectator businesses, lol.

Could be a new money making opportunity for NHRA, Here's your ticket but you need to rent this gear to sit in the stands. lol