Small teams and big money (1 Viewer)

[my friends call me Zappy]

nhra would never buy it. The testing ban is to force teams to test at natl. events, and not run ihra races.

 

[Mooseman]

and not run ihra races.

They can't even if they wanted to.

 

[reo bad]

In my opinion Alan and Blaine Johnson proved it could be done on almost no money in 1996. Number one in the points at Indy favorite for the championship. I believe with their talent they were almost able to win the championship on winners checks and minamal sponsorship money.

 

[TooTall999]

the biggest thing i have been told is the money... lot of these low budget teams.. have to run the tune not quite as "on the edge' to make sure they can use the parts again and again.... teams with the money for enough parts can push them more and not worry if they have to change out parts run to run....

in the few rounds that Hot Rod went at Z-Max in the fall event i watched a new set of rods and pistons go in each round...

Exactly, what good does it do to blow up your stuff to make it to the next round if you can't afford or don't have the parts to fix it? One of the things you see all the time is a lower budget team that qualifies near the bottom of the ladder turn the wick up first round and either smoke the tires or blow up, instead of running their known tune up and racing the track.

 

[Nick Name]

nhra would never buy it. The testing ban is to force teams to test at natl. events, and not run ihra races.

They don't have big show nitro funny cars at Nitro Jams.

The ban is to keep the Forces and Schumakers from renting tracks for a week and doing unlimited testing.

 

[Treeshaker]

The cost to run a nitro car in 1996 was very minute compared to running a "competitive" nitro car in 2011.

A "competitive" car today does not run reconditioned parts as a "low dollar" team does. Everything is new, or non-repaired every run, hence the requirement of a second trailer to carry inventory. And each of those trucks are loaded to their 80,000 lb limits. Life cycles of parts has become very short and unless you have plenty of money to keep new parts on your car for every run you will not be able to compete.

Vandergriff's performance enhancements came from the unauthorized borrowing of technologies sold to another source over a year earlier.

The cars may seem primitive to outsiders, but the technologies used to create and sometimes operate the cars are very up to date and in some cases very futuristic. You better be computer literate to run a car today. Reading plugs and bearings may tell a story, but nothing near the minute details contained in the downloaded information after the run. And there is good reasons for multiple computer screens in the crew chief's station today.

 

[Rat]

The cost to run a nitro car in 1996 was very minute compared to running a "competitive" nitro car in 2011.

A "competitive" car today does not run reconditioned parts as a "low dollar" team does. Everything is new, or non-repaired every run, hence the requirement of a second trailer to carry inventory. And each of those trucks are loaded to their 80,000 lb limits. Life cycles of parts has become very short and unless you have plenty of money to keep new parts on your car for every run you will not be able to compete.

Vandergriff's performance enhancements came from the unauthorized borrowing of technologies sold to another source over a year earlier.

The cars may seem primitive to outsiders, but the technologies used to create and sometimes operate the cars are very up to date and in some cases very futuristic. You better be computer literate to run a car today. Reading plugs and bearings may tell a story, but nothing near the minute details contained in the downloaded information after the run. And there is good reasons for multiple computer screens in the crew chief's station today.

It is interesting because it's almost like whoever (NHRA, maybe others) that allowed the class to get to this point where it is so dependent on fresh parts and computers can almost be seen as a step backwards for the sport. It would be fine if all you had was top dollar teams, but theirs still little guys surviving and it's scary to think if the powers that be (NHRA, maybe others) let the sport keep going this way all it will be is top dollar teams and say goodbye to low budget guys forever.

Virgil, If I remember correctly there's been guys (I believe Paul Smith, I cannot recall the others who have said it) who do not need a computer to tune one of these cars, are you saying the days of trying to not use a computer to tune the car is over?

 

[Treeshaker]

It is interesting because it's almost like whoever (NHRA, maybe others) that allowed the class to get to this point where it is so dependent on fresh parts and computers can almost be seen as a step backwards for the sport. It would be fine if all you had was top dollar teams, but theirs still little guys surviving and it's scary to think if the powers that be (NHRA, maybe others) let the sport keep going this way all it will be is top dollar teams and say goodbye to low budget guys forever.

Virgil, If I remember correctly there's been guys (I believe Paul Smith, I cannot recall the others who have said it) who do not need a computer to tune one of these cars, are you saying the days of trying to not use a computer to tune the car is over?

It is the racers themselves who have brought the sport to the point that it is as far as sophistication and expense to run a car in any class. Winning races feeds the egos of the participants, so one up man ship has been on the scene from day one. The sanctioning bodies have all tried to curb the expenses of racing a vehicle but to no avail. Each owner/team wants the nicest/quickest car, the best looking pits, the nicest haulers and support equipment, and the hottest woman/women on their arms. Been that way since the beginning and it all costs money.

As far as tuning, nobody tunes with success without computer data. Paul is the father of my son-in-law and uses a computer on every run. And has for as long as I have known him. You can get away without the computer data on a nostalgia car, but the guys with the computers have a big advantage.

 

[Rat]

It is the racers themselves who have brought the sport to the point that it is as far as sophistication and expense to run a car in any class. Winning races feeds the egos of the participants, so one up man ship has been on the scene from day one. The sanctioning bodies have all tried to curb the expenses of racing a vehicle but to no avail. Each owner/team wants the nicest/quickest car, the best looking pits, the nicest haulers and support equipment, and the hottest woman/women on their arms. Been that way since the beginning and it all costs money.

As far as tuning, nobody tunes with success without computer data. Paul is the father of my son-in-law and uses a computer on every run. And has for as long as I have known him. You can get away without the computer data on a nostalgia car, but the guys with the computers have a big advantage.

I must be confused thinking he was serious when maybe it was tounge and cheek. I think he was helping Phil Burkart in the FX Cabrera FC (I think gators) they went to the final I think, and had a fire that ruined the computer and he told us viewers he dont need a computer to tune. (In all honesty he probably didn't have a choice that run.) Either way i guess you cannot tune without one.I imagine all the clutch timers, fuel flow, racepak charts.

 

[camaro]

Rolling into the gates knowing i have little chance of winning the race or even going rounds, because i'm underfunded, would be something i'd have no desire to do as a team owner. 'Why take a knife to a gunfight' as the saying goes. Having a competitive race car, would be priority one for me, whether it meant a reduced schedule, or even a different, more affordable class to race in. Joe Pisano/Mike Dunn was the best example of this back in the 80's. They only attended a hand full of races, but when They did show up, they had the performance to take out any of the racers that were currently on the tour full time.

 

[clwill]

Rolling into the gates knowing i have little chance of winning the race or even going rounds, because i'm underfunded, would be something i'd have no desire to do as a team owner. 'Why take a knife to a gunfight' as the saying goes. Having a competitive race car, would be priority one for me, whether it meant a reduced schedule, or even a different, more affordable class to race in.

Talk to Terry Haddock

I would say that knowing you're not going rounds is tough. But there's a lot to learn, even without the win light. For the driver there's a lot about getting ready, staging, driving, etc., etc. that can take a long time to get under control. For the tuner, there's no substitute for experience, and the data. You don't need a win light for that any of that. Four qualifying passes and round 1 is a good weekend, in many cases.

If it was years of doing it, it would be tough. And yet, many people have gone years -- or never -- without a win.

It can be demoralizing, to be sure. And no one ever wants to think they have zero chance of winning. But there are other things in life than winning...

 

[Terry]

I am sorry Chris but I do not understand what you mean "Talk to Terry Haddock"?

It is much harder to race in the NHRA. We dont feel like we cant win. We know that we cant go testing like the larger teams but we have the experience and the team to do a good job.

Some years are harder then others and while the last few have been difficult we have never thought about quitting just because we can't always win against the larger teams.

This sport is not for the faint of heart...

 

[JL]

I am sorry Chris but I do not understand what you mean "Talk to Terry Haddock"?

It is much harder to race in the NHRA. We dont feel like we cant win. We know that we cant go testing like the larger teams but we have the experience and the team to do a good job.

Some years are harder then others and while the last few have been difficult we have never thought about quitting just because we can't always win against the larger teams.

This sport is not for the faint of heart...

Get 'em this year Terry and congrats on the engagement.

 

[daveo]

Go get um Terry! Kick da Shoes off!

 

[Nitrohelper]

..... you cannot tune without one... the clutch timers, fuel flow....

When we went to direct drive in the late '80s you could still do it with the five clutch timers and a few fuel flows...
Once the slide valve and 18 lever clutches came along,and now with the timing mapping, you needed a data logger starting in the early '90s...

 

[cephus]

it is out of hand,,, the small team will never get a fair shake against the multi car teams,,, i get tired of the same ole drivers moving around musical cockpits
boring, lot of good talent sitting on the sidelines

 

[z28]

Aside from money, what would it take to get the smaller teams more wins? I am of the opinion that the tune-up is HUGE part of it. Which leads to back to money, I guess. How can you refine your tune-up if you don't have the dollars to test and go through a lot of parts?

It makes me sad that the large teams get larger and have their own parts program (DSR, JFR -- I leave AJR out of it because at AJPE sells parts to all comers, in addition to lending a hand with the basic tune-up), all while the smaller teams don't go as many rounds as I would like to see...

Maybe what I am really after is this: How can the small teams get good enough to attract major sponsorship when it takes a lot of money (read, major sponsorship) to get good enough to attract sponsorship? The old chicken and egg problem...


It will be interesting to see how well Bode fares this coming year now that he has sponsorship to run all season (and maybe test) and refine his tune up. I wonder what he did to attract a season-long sponsor given that he doesn't have the track record of say DSR?

Questions, questions...

As a small team owner you have to be diligent in your search for sponsors and frugal with the dollars you get. If you lifted the testing ban you still couldn't afford to do it. A lot of these small teams depend on the big boys for used parts and it keeps 16 cars or more out there. How can you become a millionaire in NHRA? Start off as a billionaire.