Re-inventing Fuel Racing (1 Viewer)

[Nunz]

After reading Burk's column over on DRO, it got me pretty bummed about the current outlook for fuel racing. It got me to thinking, with the economy in trouble, sponsors leaving faster than we've seen in a long while, and not many new ones to talk about, 1000 ft. fuel racing, and on and on, this may be the time to re-think the "Pro" Nitro classes. Let's face it, the term "Pro" in the NHRA only applies to a few racers. How many racers in these categories really make a living from racing, compared to wealthy individuals who race out of passion? We are quickly on our way to just a handful of guys owning all the fuel cars. Has anyone noticed the popularity of the nosatlgia FC class, and how many cars are being built? Maybe now is the time to come up with a combination that falls somewhere between the current missiles and the nostalgia combos. The days of finding companies to underwrite the 3mil or so necessary to fund today's cars may be gone for a long time (it's never been easy or plentiful). I think NHRA should come up with a car that can run 300ish in the 1320, make a lot of fire and noise, and run the schedule for a lot less money. Am I crazy?

 

[Toejam]

I think 8 car fields might be in the Future! How many people will pay $65 to see an 8 car field if only 11-12 cars show up??

 

[Rajunz]

I'm all for it Nunzio. I would definitely pay to see full fields of nosatlgia funnies and dragsters. Take away the fuel pumps and mags, take all of the spoilers and big wings off of them and make it to where a guy could field one for less than $1mil for the season. But you're right, they need to snap, crackle and pop.....................

Perhaps that would be a good answer for NHRA's short fuel fields in the coming years. Maybe keep an 8 car field in each current Nitro class, but add nostalgic FC, nostalgic TF and Pro Mods to each event.

Personally I won't travel and dish out $$$ without nitro classes.

 

[Toejam]

If anyone thinks Nostalgia racing will get the crowds we're seeing now, look at just about any Nostalgia race, the crowds are nothing compared to a Natl. event. Would I mind seeing a couple of pairs match race at Natl. events, absolutely! But replacing today's Fuel cars with Nostalgia cars? Never happen...

 

[d'kid]

Joe,
If I had a local choice between going to 2 or 3 N/FC events a year for the money I spend going to ONE National event... guess where I'm going.

Unlike some on this board, It isn't about 4.5 second T/F or 4.7 second floppers... It's about the Show... and the "Big Show" is over to quickly to be entertaining... unlike some, I'm not 'Blinded by the HYPE'

d'kid

 

[Nunz]

Joe, read my post. I didn't say replace with nostalgia, I said create a car that runs a bit over 300 in the full 1320, with a milder, less volatile (expensive) tune-up. Guess what, AJ is almost running 320 at 100 ft. Soon they will, and then they'll start grenading stuff. Then what, 1/8 mile? I'm talking about a car that falls in between the current machines and the nostalgia cars. Basically do something like Armstrong is talking about. As far as crowds go, thare's no reason you can't fill the stands with cars running over 300, running 90%, with lots of fire and minimal explosions, and more cars. The rate we're going now, shorter tracks, less cars, less sponsors, etc. Also, if a "car of the future" could be created that ran on a much smaller budget, more sponsors could be landed because racers wouldn't have to look for 3mil+.

 

[Walter]

I do not think that more classes is the answer or dramatically redoing the classes. It is the names that put the butts in the seats: if Force ran a Nostalgia car, the people would come. However, a Nostalgia car has no draw from a marketing standpoint for a manufacturer,only current models do. My vote: leave the nitro classes the way they are.

That said, costs need to drop and it needs to be done in a way to not obsolete many thousands in parts and cause teams to spend huge amounts testing. Smaller pumps, less blower OD, narrower or harder tires so that huge horsepower goes up in smoke and the driver has to drive, etc. The nitro classes need something that makes them cheaper to run so we can keep more cars out there and bring more in.

There are some great mechanical minds out there who can figure this out. We would still have ground pounding, high horsepower cars that would run mind-numbing speeds.

 

[none]

Joe,
If I had a local choice between going to 2 or 3 N/FC events a year for the money I spend going to ONE National event... guess where I'm going.

Unlike some on this board, It isn't about 4.5 second T/F or 4.7 second floppers... It's about the Show... and the "Big Show" is over to quickly to be entertaining... unlike some, I'm not 'Blinded by the HYPE'

d'kid

Karl, I agree wholeheartedly.

Now, we just need some N/FC racing here in Texas.

Billy Meyer, ya hear?

 

[mick]

decreasing costs i agree with, if they can, but never stop asking for
the 'big check' from the sponsors, the minute the racers/owners start asking
for less, that is when you'll see drag racing suffer.
perception is the key - if the drag racing community conveys to corporate
america that they are not what they once were, corporate america will
gladly oblige and write a much smaller check.

i don't think that's the case, in fact i think with bruton's new track and
other cross-promotion excitement surrounding nhra drag racing this year,
this may be an opportune time to actually try to attrack more new sponsors,
sponsors who may have been spending 'in cirlcles'? it won't happen today,
obviously everyone's dollars are stretched tight, but as the economy
comes around, NHRA could look very attractive.

 

[Toejam]

Joe,
If I had a local choice between going to 2 or 3 N/FC events a year for the money I spend going to ONE National event... guess where I'm going.

Unlike some on this board, It isn't about 4.5 second T/F or 4.7 second floppers... It's about the Show... and the "Big Show" is over to quickly to be entertaining... unlike some, I'm not 'Blinded by the HYPE'

d'kid

How many people have a "Local" choice? My Nearest races outside of my local track is 450 Mi. from here. And if I'm going to Plop down $600-700 to go out of town to see Drag racing, I'm going to see 30+ Fuel cars, over 40 Alky cars, and even Pro mods at some races. I'm looked at Qualifying sheets at some of those Nostalgia races, and the disparity is incredible! If I was lucky enough to live near L.A. where I could drive an hour to see the March Meet or other Nostalgia races, yes I would gladly take it up. Other than that, this whole argument is Apples and Oranges!

 

[Bobby]

After reading Burk's column over on DRO, it got me pretty bummed about the current outlook for fuel racing. It got me to thinking, with the economy in trouble, sponsors leaving faster than we've seen in a long while, and not many new ones to talk about, 1000 ft. fuel racing, and on and on, this may be the time to re-think the "Pro" Nitro classes. Let's face it, the term "Pro" in the NHRA only applies to a few racers. How many racers in these categories really make a living from racing, compared to wealthy individuals who race out of passion? We are quickly on our way to just a handful of guys owning all the fuel cars. Has anyone noticed the popularity of the nosatlgia FC class, and how many cars are being built? Maybe now is the time to come up with a combination that falls somewhere between the current missiles and the nostalgia combos. The days of finding companies to underwrite the 3mil or so necessary to fund today's cars may be gone for a long time (it's never been easy or plentiful). I think NHRA should come up with a car that can run 300ish in the 1320, make a lot of fire and noise, and run the schedule for a lot less money. Am I crazy?

stop making sense.
stop making sense, making sense.

 

[Nunz]

Joe, once again, this thread isn't about replacing the big show with nostalgia cars. However, the current NHRA nitro cars, IMO, need to be re-invented. Look, there are two major issues with the fuel cars. First, safety. Well, everyone talks about having a "neutured" fuel car running 1320 vs. today's cars running to 1000 ft. Well, to me, shortening the track doesn't fix the problem for the long haul. As I said before, Shoe & others are approaching 320 at 1000 feet, so they have the same velocity, but gained some shutdown. By keeping the "bomb" the same, I don't believe it will be long before we see more of the catastrophic explosions. Which leads into the next issue, costs. While I'm NOT suggesting replacing the current cars with nostalgia cars, I would be happy seeing fuller fields of fuel cars, running the full track, at over 300, it doesn't have to be 330 to be exciting. Look to the future, if we keep the current trend line going, in a few years we'll have a handful of people, not 40, who race fuel cars that cost well over 3-4 mil a year, and run the 1/8 mile at 300 miles per hour. I don't want to see it go there.
Look, drag racing, IMO, will always survive. What we're talking about here is really a small part of it, but it's the part that gets all the ink, the crowds, and the TV time. So in my mind, if there is going to be a Professional aspect of this sport, then someone needs to look 5, 10 or more years down the road and try and create a plan. Joe, you talk about the type of show you expect to see at a national event, and I agree with you, which is exactly my point. Nitro cars in their current configuration are in danger of becoming very scarce, if not extinct.

 

[Bobby]

open the door, get on the floor, everybody do the dinosaur.

 

[sammi]

Walking around the fuel pits today, it is painfully apparent that NHRA's little man syndrome (you know, the little bald guy who tools around town in the sky high, blinged out 4x4) is what really holds down the sport. Most of the the "serious" touring pros had two rigs for every car. Not to mention the ridiculous hospitality stuff. We need to get back to 2 teams in every rig. The cost of a rig could easily make a good start at establishing a team. And don't get me started on even TRYING to see a car with all of the "transporter canyons."

We also need to run away from the disposable fuel engine concept. Whatever it takes...spec blowers with spec UNDERdrive. Going from 65 square inches to 45 on the bug catcher....just back them down so that the mega-beefy fuel parts of today will get a lot more mileage.

 

[None]

decreasing costs i agree with, if they can, but never stop asking for
the 'big check' from the sponsors, the minute the racers/owners start asking
for less, that is when you'll see drag racing suffer.
.

I think there's a lot of you would be surprised how small the "big check" is.
NHRA drag racing is falling into the cult scene kinda like drifting, WOO's etc. How many people go to Pomona twice a year in a setting within an urban population of over 10M people? Bout as much as a pimple on a butt cheek.
I don't know about many other areas but have been to several tracks around the country and it seems to be around 35K on jam packed Saturday show within very populated areas. Very few of the Sunday races I've been to fill the joint on Sunday. Maybe Vegas is an exception but I'm sure the whole scenario has as much to do with it as the race it's self.
How may of you lived through the fuel NHRA fuel boycott of the 60's? There was plenty of racing outside of NHRA to keep fans perked up. Today, only a handul of cars, same show race after race and not generating much excitement outside the cult fans that attend. 1000ft? It's a loser except for die hards. How do you bring in new fans to watch a race that's over in a blink of an eye and the have to sit through hours of boring electronic cars? TV ratings? Not much to cheer about there either. In my opinion, with sponsorship dollars drying up, not a lot to look forward to for a while. But again, you know what they say about opinions.

 

[RAPID]

It is the names that put the butts in the seats: if Force ran a Nostalgia car, the people would come. However, a Nostalgia car has no draw from a marketing standpoint for a manufacturer,only current models do.

Walter, I edited your post to one specific point. Don't take this as a slam, but if I make a car or something auto related and can't sell it to these kinds of car crazy crowds,,,,I need to hire a new marketing guy. JMO

Back to the topic at hand,

Rapid

 

[Toejam]

Joe, once again, this thread isn't about replacing the big show with nostalgia cars. However, the current NHRA nitro cars, IMO, need to be re-invented. Look, there are two major issues with the fuel cars. First, safety. Well, everyone talks about having a "neutured" fuel car running 1320 vs. today's cars running to 1000 ft. Well, to me, shortening the track doesn't fix the problem for the long haul. As I said before, Shoe & others are approaching 320 at 1000 feet, so they have the same velocity, but gained some shutdown. By keeping the "bomb" the same, I don't believe it will be long before we see more of the catastrophic explosions. Which leads into the next issue, costs. While I'm NOT suggesting replacing the current cars with nostalgia cars, I would be happy seeing fuller fields of fuel cars, running the full track, at over 300, it doesn't have to be 330 to be exciting. Look to the future, if we keep the current trend line going, in a few years we'll have a handful of people, not 40, who race fuel cars that cost well over 3-4 mil a year, and run the 1/8 mile at 300 miles per hour. I don't want to see it go there.
Look, drag racing, IMO, will always survive. What we're talking about here is really a small part of it, but it's the part that gets all the ink, the crowds, and the TV time. So in my mind, if there is going to be a Professional aspect of this sport, then someone needs to look 5, 10 or more years down the road and try and create a plan. Joe, you talk about the type of show you expect to see at a national event, and I agree with you, which is exactly my point. Nitro cars in their current configuration are in danger of becoming very scarce, if not extinct.

Nunzio, your basically suggesting eliminating somebody's class either way you cut it! You can't come up with a new category without telling some racers' they're cars are NO more! Remember all the hubub over the PST controversy???

 

[FABMAN]

We are experiencing an adjustment in our economy. First thing people do is panic, stop spending money and start staking blame. People need to calm down and take a deep breath, we all will recover from this and be better Americans for it.

Now for fuel racing they need to step back an look at what Dale Armstrong was telling them, a lot of money could be saved. I'm sure the Forces out there know how to cut back and save money, they have raced without any and still put on a good show each race. Tim W., Gary D., Jim Head watching these guys race means more to me than the multi car teams they stretch there dollars every week and get it done on race day. I like adding the nostalgia cars maybe 8 car fields and it would be entertaining and a good buy for the buck at the gate.

 

[Walter]

No slam taken at all...my remark was aimed at manufacturer money (to the extent there will be any given the sorry state of the industry right now and the cutbacks underway), not aftermarket companies.

Nos racing is very cool...I am a fan from the 60's and I love it. However, to totally retool the big show would cost teams way too much money to justify any savings. Adopting some of the restrictions found in Nos racing would.

It would indeed be interesting to see what an 8 car Nos show at a Natl would do spectator interest wise...it could surprise some folks.

Walter, I edited your post to one specific point. Don't take this as a slam, but if I make a car or something auto related and can't sell it to these kinds of car crazy crowds,,,,I need to hire a new marketing guy. JMO

Back to the topic at hand,

Rapid

 

[I was NITRO BREATH]

Seems to me that drag racing is never going to be baseball or football. It is always going to have a limited audience of die hard fans [like the people on this forum] who will support it with their $$ and show up at races. Maybe we should be satisfied with that reality and not worry about bringing millions of new people in because I don't think that will happen and I don't think that will make our sport better. To stretch the old yarn a little, when you're stuck with a handful of lemons make lemonade. Lets address the concerns of the real fans so we will encourage them to attend more races and get them to spend more on sponsor products. Better tracks ,like the one Bruton built will go a long way to bringing more people and racers to the events whether they are national events or local. Encouraging the fans to contact sponsors when they buy their products will help. And yes bringing the cost of racing down in the Pro classes is essential

I think there's a lot of you would be surprised how small the "big check" is.
NHRA drag racing is falling into the cult scene kinda like drifting, WOO's etc. How many people go to Pomona twice a year in a setting within an urban population of over 10M people? Bout as much as a pimple on a butt cheek.
I don't know about many other areas but have been to several tracks around the country and it seems to be around 35K on jam packed Saturday show within very populated areas. Very few of the Sunday races I've been to fill the joint on Sunday. Maybe Vegas is an exception but I'm sure the whole scenario has as much to do with it as the race it's self.
How may of you lived through the fuel NHRA fuel boycott of the 60's? There was plenty of racing outside of NHRA to keep fans perked up. Today, only a handul of cars, same show race after race and not generating much excitement outside the cult fans that attend. 1000ft? It's a loser except for die hards. How do you bring in new fans to watch a race that's over in a blink of an eye and the have to sit through hours of boring electronic cars? TV ratings? Not much to cheer about there either. In my opinion, with sponsorship dollars drying up, not a lot to look forward to for a while. But again, you know what they say about opinions.