mastertone
Nitro Member
Limit cars to Camaro's, Mustangs, and Challengers, Stock Wheelbase, 346 Cu In as per Nascar Rules on the engines. Transmissions limited to factory type 6 speeds and MUST use a clutch to shift them. Am I just crazy here?
Pro Stock Ideas (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mastertone
- Start date
TooTall999
Nitro Member
500ci,EFI, flat hoods, must use "body in white" as basis for car. Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers only.
mastertone
Nitro Member
AND, all cars must be 2 doors and have been maufactured with rear wheel drive only, sorry no Toyotas!
I am sure TRD would have a killer program, the only problem is I don't see where they would get a V-8, unless their trucks come in a V-8 model. Anyway, I agree, more is better in this case. Drag racing is no longer just an American thing.
FABMAN
Nitro Member
Craig, i think they have the Copo class which is about that except the cubic in. The speeds these cars are running a stock body would not be safe, they're at edge now. NHRA wanted something done to help interest in class which is good but they over reacted and now we have a boring class. The last two years of PS has been exciting and they should have given teams time to work this out before implementing EFI.
Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
I really waffle back and forth on this topic. My earliest drag racing memories are of the car my Dad raced with his buddies in Modified Production, so high rpm stick cars is what drew me to Pro Stock in the first place. Even when they went with the modern set-up in '82, it still remained exciting to me for many years to come because brand identity and rivalries remained strong. But I try not to let the purist in me cloud my judgement when it comes to the need to evolve the class with the times, although I find myself doing just that..... Lol
I've lost count of how many "ideas" I've read about over the past year or two regarding how to save this class, and most of which ultimately end up with some sort of platform similar to the current Super Stock stuff with the COPO's, Drag Pak's and such. I've finally allowed myself to accept the fact that the class is called "Pro" stock for a reason. It's not for the guy/gal looking for heads-up racing on a Sportsman level budget, and honestly it SHOULDN'T be. This class exhibits some of the most technologically advanced racing engines out there, along with a comparable chassis program, and it takes a team chocked full of intelligence from one end of the team to the other for any hope of success in this class. And I for one support the LONG overdue switch to EFI, except that there should've been a longer transition period, with more liberties on who all gets to play from a manufacturer's standpoint. Both of which would've went a long way in curbing the current lopsided situation we have right now.
Getting more manufacturers involved would be great, but it's gonna be a tough sell. I would love to see more of them not only get involved, but become competitive. Whether you like it or not, Roy Johnson is the only one to have consistent success with the Dodge, Morgan struggled at best with the Ford and the silence out of the Westcott camp has been deafening, so I'm starting to wonder if the GM platform is simply the better design when it comes to this particular, 500" normally aspirated set-up. Otherwise, you would think at least some of the folks that run independent of financial backing would have more success with the brands other than GM. I also believe it would be equally difficult for Toyota to come in, because when their stuff comes out and is slow, they won't have the rules makers to bail them out like they do in NASCAR, so I doubt there's much interest from them.
But I still love the class......
Sean D
I've lost count of how many "ideas" I've read about over the past year or two regarding how to save this class, and most of which ultimately end up with some sort of platform similar to the current Super Stock stuff with the COPO's, Drag Pak's and such. I've finally allowed myself to accept the fact that the class is called "Pro" stock for a reason. It's not for the guy/gal looking for heads-up racing on a Sportsman level budget, and honestly it SHOULDN'T be. This class exhibits some of the most technologically advanced racing engines out there, along with a comparable chassis program, and it takes a team chocked full of intelligence from one end of the team to the other for any hope of success in this class. And I for one support the LONG overdue switch to EFI, except that there should've been a longer transition period, with more liberties on who all gets to play from a manufacturer's standpoint. Both of which would've went a long way in curbing the current lopsided situation we have right now.
Getting more manufacturers involved would be great, but it's gonna be a tough sell. I would love to see more of them not only get involved, but become competitive. Whether you like it or not, Roy Johnson is the only one to have consistent success with the Dodge, Morgan struggled at best with the Ford and the silence out of the Westcott camp has been deafening, so I'm starting to wonder if the GM platform is simply the better design when it comes to this particular, 500" normally aspirated set-up. Otherwise, you would think at least some of the folks that run independent of financial backing would have more success with the brands other than GM. I also believe it would be equally difficult for Toyota to come in, because when their stuff comes out and is slow, they won't have the rules makers to bail them out like they do in NASCAR, so I doubt there's much interest from them.
But I still love the class......
Sean D
cantdrive55
Nitro Member
I really don't understand the NIMBY approach to a solution. NHRA, and more specifically Pro Stock needs more manufacturer participation, not less. If that means opening up the gates and allowing brands like Nissan, Toyota/Lexus, or maybe something European in then so be it. Currently there is zero Ford interest, and subsequently zero Pro Stock Mustangs. Chevy and Mopar are it right now, and at best there's only 4 Dodge Darts on track. Drag Racing is a niche activity to begin with, and there's not really a lot of manufacturers who really want to focus on how quick/fast their car can accelerate in a quarter mile.
As for the rules I'd prefer engine sizes closer to factory spec (GM=427, Mopar=426, Ford=429). TRD and Nissan have V8's in their trucks, and both have raced V8's in other forms of racing. But honestly I think it might be good for the class to have a mix of V8's and V6's. I'm not a fan of bringing back weight breaks or trying to implement some form of a faux index. If they look at how diverse Pro Mod is, and how it's been regulated I think they could figure out a formula for balancing the performance between a Turbo V6 and an all motor EFI V8. It might be messy at first, and people will no doubt complain, but eventually I think it would work out in the end with manufacturers racing what's underneath the hoods of their production vehicles. I would like to see the wheelbase addressed. Currently it's a spec 105"/104". From the factories the Dart is 106.4", Challenger is 116.2", Camaro is 110.7", Mustang is 107.1", and just for kicks the Nissan GT-R is 109.4". Squeezing and morphing all the different models into a spec box has only contributed to the problem. Factory body dims would be ideal, but I don't see how practical that would actually be. None of the production cars were ever designed to travel the quarter at 200 mph. There has to be some leeway granted. Even the Outlaw cars are massaged from a body perspective to be able to run 200 mph.
A great example of outside the box thinking is Mark Jacobson's Godzilla Motorsport R35 GT-R. It has a Turbo V6, and runs in the high 6.30's down under in Australia. It's basically further development from the old Pro Import category.
NASCAR V8's are 358 c.i.
As for the rules I'd prefer engine sizes closer to factory spec (GM=427, Mopar=426, Ford=429). TRD and Nissan have V8's in their trucks, and both have raced V8's in other forms of racing. But honestly I think it might be good for the class to have a mix of V8's and V6's. I'm not a fan of bringing back weight breaks or trying to implement some form of a faux index. If they look at how diverse Pro Mod is, and how it's been regulated I think they could figure out a formula for balancing the performance between a Turbo V6 and an all motor EFI V8. It might be messy at first, and people will no doubt complain, but eventually I think it would work out in the end with manufacturers racing what's underneath the hoods of their production vehicles. I would like to see the wheelbase addressed. Currently it's a spec 105"/104". From the factories the Dart is 106.4", Challenger is 116.2", Camaro is 110.7", Mustang is 107.1", and just for kicks the Nissan GT-R is 109.4". Squeezing and morphing all the different models into a spec box has only contributed to the problem. Factory body dims would be ideal, but I don't see how practical that would actually be. None of the production cars were ever designed to travel the quarter at 200 mph. There has to be some leeway granted. Even the Outlaw cars are massaged from a body perspective to be able to run 200 mph.
A great example of outside the box thinking is Mark Jacobson's Godzilla Motorsport R35 GT-R. It has a Turbo V6, and runs in the high 6.30's down under in Australia. It's basically further development from the old Pro Import category.
NASCAR V8's are 358 c.i.
FABMAN
Nitro Member
Sean, well said and i wish NHRA would bring back M/P in some manner.I really waffle back and forth on this topic. My earliest drag racing memories are of the car my Dad raced with his buddies in Modified Production, so high rpm stick cars is what drew me to Pro Stock in the first place. Even when they went with the modern set-up in '82, it still remained exciting to me for many years to come because brand identity and rivalries remained strong. But I try not to let the purist in me cloud my judgement when it comes to the need to evolve the class with the times, although I find myself doing just that..... Lol
I've lost count of how many "ideas" I've read about over the past year or two regarding how to save this class, and most of which ultimately end up with some sort of platform similar to the current Super Stock stuff with the COPO's, Drag Pak's and such. I've finally allowed myself to accept the fact that the class is called "Pro" stock for a reason. It's not for the guy/gal looking for heads-up racing on a Sportsman level budget, and honestly it SHOULDN'T be. This class exhibits some of the most technologically advanced racing engines out there, along with a comparable chassis program, and it takes a team chocked full of intelligence from one end of the team to the other for any hope of success in this class. And I for one support the LONG overdue switch to EFI, except that there should've been a longer transition period, with more liberties on who all gets to play from a manufacturer's standpoint. Both of which would've went a long way in curbing the current lopsided situation we have right now.
Getting more manufacturers involved would be great, but it's gonna be a tough sell. I would love to see more of them not only get involved, but become competitive. Whether you like it or not, Roy Johnson is the only one to have consistent success with the Dodge, Morgan struggled at best with the Ford and the silence out of the Westcott camp has been deafening, so I'm starting to wonder if the GM platform is simply the better design when it comes to this particular, 500" normally aspirated set-up. Otherwise, you would think at least some of the folks that run independent of financial backing would have more success with the brands other than GM. I also believe it would be equally difficult for Toyota to come in, because when their stuff comes out and is slow, they won't have the rules makers to bail them out like they do in NASCAR, so I doubt there's much interest from them.
But I still love the class......
Sean D
FABMAN
Nitro Member
Jay, if you get a chance watch some Modified Production video from mid to early eighties it was coolist class ever in Drag Racing. Sorry all i have is a dumb phone of i would post them.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
No sir yer not crazy at all. But don't stop half way. I agree RWD only. If you change the drive wheels it's an altered, not a stocker.
Either full stick or full automatic. 2 or 4 dr. Must use cu.in. available in that body. Pump gas. Stock w/b. One minimum weight for all.
Yes get tem back true to the name Pro "STOCK"
& lower cost.
Give them all the wing they want. (safety)
But it's probably too late to reel them back in now.
I laugh at this. People say how the 80's pro stock was great as the cats had stock bodies. Yet when this topic comes up people want to take the class back to how it was in 1971. Even in the 70's most of the competitive pro stock cars were not v8 muscle cars. There were camaro's yes but most were based on compact cars.
Those compact cars never had big v8's in them yet people loved pro stock back then.
Also stick shift and clutches. The Lenco has been around since the early 70's, sure now they use the Liberty trans but clutch less transmissions have been in use for 40 years in pro stock.
No matter how they looked on the outside over the decades factory showroom "stock" cars ended very early in the history of the class.
A lot of talk about modified production class, may I take a guess that people just miss that class. Is changing pro stock going to really make it better and bring back those memories considering that Modified and pro stock really were not the same class even back then
Those compact cars never had big v8's in them yet people loved pro stock back then.
Also stick shift and clutches. The Lenco has been around since the early 70's, sure now they use the Liberty trans but clutch less transmissions have been in use for 40 years in pro stock.
No matter how they looked on the outside over the decades factory showroom "stock" cars ended very early in the history of the class.
A lot of talk about modified production class, may I take a guess that people just miss that class. Is changing pro stock going to really make it better and bring back those memories considering that Modified and pro stock really were not the same class even back then
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
FABMAN
Nitro Member
I don't know what happened with NHRA the people i knew ran IHRA because of issues with NHRA . It lasted quite a bit longer in IHRA and then Pro Stock took off and most guys went there and a lot just quit.
I also think that's when NHRA started Comp Eliminator.
Bob Reese might know maybe he will chime in.
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Nick Name
Nitro Member
I grew up on west coast nitro. Everything else is what they ran down the track while the fuel cars were being serviced.
Pro stock was an east coast thing. One time at OCIR they had a big pro stock show, had Jenkins and all the rest of the hitters out here. The place was a ghost town. Meanwhile Irwindale had a fuel show playing to a packed house.
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
According to Super Chevy
"The legend of Gassers, roadsters, and Modified Productions came to a controversial halt in the fall of 1981. Claiming a downturn in contestants, the NHRA decided to drop Modified Eliminator, ignoring considerable protests from the hundreds of Mod racers and the legions of fans that followed them. Those who opposed the move were quick to note that the '81 Nationals Modified drew nearly 150 cars, all competing for a 48-car eliminator field. During the Nationals, more than 100 mod racers showed their displeasure by slowly driving down the Indianapolis Raceway Park return road, protest signs taped to their race cars and tow vehicles. But, the demonstration was for naught, as NHRA officials stuck with their decision and dropped Modified for good after the Pomona World Finals.
The wheelstanding Modifieds were replaced with the "Super" e.t. bracket categories of Super/Comp, Super/Gas, and Super/Street. This throttle-stop-dominated segment was a far cry from the Gasser, Modified Production, Stock, and Modified Sports classes. The change sidelined many of the best racers from the '60s and '70s"
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