P/S full fields (2 Viewers)

[ironpony]

I remember hearing the same thing, but didn't Bruno just say this past weekend that the Camaro had the lowest coefficient of drag of any of the Pro Stock bodies?

Sean D

IIRC the Mustang is and speculation was you would see Mustangs with the DRCE engine, WJ said he would put a HEMI in one if he had the money..................

 

[SoCal Racer]

Anyone using the all Camaro show comment forgets that a lot of the diversity disappeared with General Motors shutting down Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Ford hasn't been a factor in how long? It has been the General Motors show more often than not for 30 years. Pro stock is the closest most competive class right now. If you don't like it don't watch it.

Or even before GM closed those divisions. When the "corporate engine" was allowed all the GM cars began running the same engine. I don't remember too many griping about that because when fans popped the hoods on their Cutlass or Grand Prix they were seeing a small block Chevy - but it was still all in the GM family. Nonetheless, if we look way back the cars ran a factory block. So today we'd have LS vs. Gen III Hemi vs. Coyote....... oh, wait, that's FSS

 

[RM FAN]

You need to review your history. The alleged use of nitrous happened, not when the Hemi was dominating in the early ‘70s when the class was formed, but years later when the wedge engine was being used.
The Hemi had been effectively legislated out of PS for many years by that point.
The almighty Hemi didn’t need help to win. Rather, the GM contingent needed NHRA’s help to penalize the Hemi so they (GM) would stand a chance of winning.
And, no, it is not a good thing when one manufacturer dominates. It makes for extremely boring racing. Hence, the problem with the class today.

So its ok for Mopar to dominate and not other manufactures because its boring? Might want to read what you write. I know the history and there is nothing alleged about use of nitrous by the NOS Boys. I always wondered why the hemi did not make a comeback when PS went to 500. Because it evened the playing field?

 

[fxconde]

Sounds like my suggestion but the only thing I would add is generally available street heads and blocks not total custom one offs and allow two and four doors and any manufactures. The let the fun begin.

 

[TSK]

So its ok for Mopar to dominate and not other manufactures because its boring? Might want to read what you write. I know the history and there is nothing alleged about use of nitrous by the NOS Boys. I always wondered why the hemi did not make a comeback when PS went to 500. Because it evened the playing field?

The only thing I know for sure, only one PS team was caught red-handed using N2O, and it wasn't a Dodge.
But, if you have other facts, and not allegations, I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't wait to see them.

 

[RM FAN]

The only thing I know for sure, only one PS team was caught red-handed using N2O, and it wasn't a Dodge.
But, if you have other facts, and not allegations, I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't wait to see them.

On more than one occasion they had pretty flames shoot out the scoop and when the Safey Safari came over to assist they waved everyone away and towed the car off in a hurry. Plenty of evidence out there if you open your eyes. A Glidden even told the NHRA how they were cheating. The NHRA knew what was going on and did nothing because Mopar was a major player for them during that time. The team you speak of was not actually caught red-handed it was because they blew up in the pits.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

The whole nitrous deal was a pretty easy deal to piece together and a moot point in my eyes. I, along with everyone else with half a working brain cell could figure it out. Hell, I talked to Ronnie Milsap last week and he could see it.

As for the Hemi, it was dominant almost 50 years ago and NHRA did a poor job creating parity. But the bottom line is, they were going to get factored out on their own through attrition. Once things got serious and cylinder pressures went through the ceiling, the Hemi was going to go bye-bye anyway. Glidden himself spoke extensively about that very topic a long time ago. A true hemispherical head didn't prove optimum for high-level normally aspirated racing, and that's just the way it is. If it was, you can bet your ass Glidden would've made it happen.

Then the Mopar contingent's argument is that NHRA created 500', 2,350# racing to give GM yet another edge. There wasn't enough technical know-how within the sanctioning body to create parity among the many combinations back in those days, but you want everybody to believe that they had the in-house technical know-how to know that this new configuration would benefit the GM cars.....................okay. They did that as an easy way to get out of the debacle they were dealing with as far as fairly factoring those cars. And as far as GM's dominance since, I don't want to hear it. The configuration was kept the same, without a single change through all of Glidden's dominance, as well as AJ's success for well over 30 years. You want to be mad at somebody? Be mad at the manufacturer for not taking enough interest to engineer a better product for the application. The only thing as a fan that bothers me is the latest RPM ruling that all but killed the existing Mopar Pro Stock stuff, because regardless of being a Chevy guy, the class has no flash anymore without participation from all makes.

The bottom line is the NHRA has and will always cater to whoever is bringing money into the organization, whether it's turning a blind eye to cheating, mufflers on sportsman cars or whatever.

Sean D

 

[TSK]

I’d say having a nitrous bottle explode in the oil tank, in the pits during a national event, is pretty much being caught red-handed.
Somebody please refresh my memory; at the time of the allegations against Wayne County, weren’t the rules against the use of nitrous in PS written after the infamous break-in?
I know its use was against the spirit of the class but, was it specifically mentioned prior to the break-in?

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Somebody please refresh my memory; at the time of the allegations against Wayne County, weren’t the rules against the use of nitrous in PS written after the infamous break-in?
I know its use was against the spirit of the class but, was it specifically mentioned prior to the break-in?

I think you might be right, but it begs the question; why hide it if it wasn't against the rules? And that goes for Wayne County, Orndorff or the Glidden boys' exhibition.......

Sean D

 

[TSK]

I think you might be right, but it begs the question; why hide it if it wasn't against the rules? And that goes for Wayne County, Orndorff or the Glidden boys' exhibition.......

Sean D

At the time of Eckmann’s explosion, hadn’t the rules already been changed outlawing N2O?
I figured that was the reason for the severity of the punishment handed down by NHRA after that incident.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

At the time of Eckmann’s explosion, hadn’t the rules already been changed outlawing N2O?
I figured that was the reason for the severity of the punishment handed down by NHRA after that incident.

I honestly don't know, Ted. You could very well be right with regards to the timeline.

Sean D

 

[MFRACING]

Ken, agree with you on that. Might put a big bind on some companies though. It's too far over center.

 

[M Jones]

As to why hide it if its legal goes, who tells everybody about there horsepower secrets, legal or not

 

[ironpony]

FI is mandatory with specified parts yet everyone hides their intake and injectors...........

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

As to why hide it if its legal goes, who tells everybody about there horsepower secrets, legal or not

FI is mandatory with specified parts yet everyone hides their intake and injectors...........

The comparison of hiding horsepower secrets that in most cases have significant amounts of time in development (not to mention the subsequent mega dollars spent), versus what is essentially a bolt-on power adder is weak. It's not like anybody has to spend countless man-hours in the dyno room figuring out that nitrous makes horsepower.

C'mon, boys, you can do better than that.

Sean D

 

[Nunz]

Sean you’re not considering the countless manhours spent figuring out how to hide the stuff... LOL

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Sean you’re not considering the countless manhours spent figuring out how to hide the stuff... LOL

Touche'. Well done, Nunz. Lol!

Sean D

 

[stitcherbob]

On more than one occasion they had pretty flames shoot out the scoop and when the Safey Safari came over to assist they waved everyone away and towed the car off in a hurry. Plenty of evidence out there if you open your eyes. A Glidden even told the NHRA how they were cheating. The NHRA knew what was going on and did nothing because Mopar was a major player for them during that time. The team you speak of was not actually caught red-handed it was because they blew up in the pits.

here we go again

Glidden's son(s) wanted his dad to run NOS to "be competitive with the REST of Pro Stock racing"....he was told it couldn't be done. He developed a system, showed it to Bob, and Bob turned him in to the NHRA. I seem to remember the family being in strife over that during that time. It wasn't that they were describing any system allegedly run by Wayne County.
Another thing I remember....at least 2 occasions on TV when the Summit /KB team cars spit fire out of the hood scoop and out from the headers after a run. The announcers said "look at that", then clammed up immediately. And the Wayne County break-in was investigated by the FBI....you don't involve them if there's a chance you are lying....they will prosecute (it's a FEDERAL CRIME to lie to them doncha know...)
If someone broke in and sledgehammered all of WJ's engines, heads, and manifolds...how long would it take him to get back to where he was in his GM Performance program? Now change that to a team using the only Mopar pieces in P/S racing at the time...essentially one off experimental parts....
Finally, Eckmann and Orndorff Racing had the explosion in the pits...several witnesses were hit with parts and hot oil. They covered it up, shut down their pit area, locked up and left the track to wait it out. It was hours before they were confronted by the NHRA...because the NHRA had stationed the local police outside their trailer and waited for someone from the team to come back. Pretty sure it was Bill Orndorff himself. Maybe not the actual definition of red-handed, but their actions certainly painted them as guilty.

 

[nhdriver]

I think PS has reached the point of no return. Allowing them to run any engine, no matter the make of the car, was probably the last gasp for trying to keep the class alive.
The only people who want to keep it around are those who have plenty of disposable income, and those builders who lease out their GM engines.
There is no good reason for Ford or Chrysler to spend a ton of money developing engines for the class.

I agree about the running any engine rule. Recently somebody dragged out one of the old Pontiac GXP cars and the Fox announcer cited it as an example of someone running an off brand engine in a different make car. Are you kidding me? As a Mopar fan I don't ever want to see a Dodge or a Ford running a GM pro stock engine Allen Johnson did the right thing getting out when he knew the deck was stacked against him.

 

[FABMAN]

I say run LS,Chrysler and Ford use there new motors and let crews have at it Hell there some 1400 HP all ready with LS.