OH Darn ! The Lights Go Out Tonight For Pontiac ! (1 Viewer)

Larry

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On Halloween no less ! Sad Tag here !

Pontiac, maker of muscle cars, ends after 84 years
DETROIT—Pontiac, whose muscle cars drag-raced down boulevards, parked at drive-ins and roared across movie screens, is going out of business on Sunday.

The 84-year-old brand, moribund since General Motors decided to kill it last year as it collapsed into bankruptcy, had been in decline for years. It was undone by a combination of poor corporate strategy and changing driver tastes. On Oct. 31, GM's agreements with Pontiac dealers expire.

Even before GM's bankruptcy, Pontiac's sales had fallen from their peak of nearly one million in 1968, when the brand's speedier models were prized for their powerful engines and scowling grills.

At Pontiac's pinnacle, models like the GTO, Trans Am and Catalina 2+2 were packed with horsepower and sported colors like "Tiger Gold." Burt Reynolds and Sally Field fled the law in a Firebird Trans Am which raced through the 1970s hit movie "Smokey and the Bandit."

By the late 1980s, though, Pontiacs were taking off their muscle shirts, putting on suits and trying to act like other cars. The brand had lost its edge.

Bill Hoglund, a retired GM executive who led Pontiac during its "We Build Excitement" ad campaigns in the 1980s, blames the brand's demise on a reorganization under CEO Roger Smith in 1984. That overhaul cut costs by combining Pontiac's manufacturing, engineering and design operations with those of other GM brands.

"There was no passion for the product," says Hoglund. "The product had to fit what was going on in the corporate system."

Although the moves were necessary to fend off competition from Japanese automakers with lower costs, they yielded Pontiacs that looked and drove like other GM cars.

By 2008, the last full year before GM announced Pontiac's shutdown, sales were 267,000, less than a third of those sold in 1968.

Formed in 1926, Pontiac made cars for the working class until a sales slump in the 1950s nearly killed it. GM revived the brand by connecting it to auto racing. From then on, each Pontiac sales boom was driven by speed; each bust generally featured outdated or boring rides.

The brand's most storied muscle car, the GTO, came about when some GM engineers took a small car called the Tempest and put a powerful V8 engine under the hood. The letters stood for "Gran Turismo Omologato," Italian for "ready to race."

Sparked by the GTO, the Pontiac brand thrived, making up 17 percent of the 5.4 million cars and trucks GM sold in the U.S. in 1968. The GTO even spawned its own 1960s hit song.

"C'mon and turn it on, wind it up, blow it out GTO," was the chorus of the tune by Ronny and the Daytonas.
 
Although I hate to see the loss of jobs this decision brings, all this means is less GM crap on the road.
 
Although I hate to see the loss of jobs this decision brings, all this means is less GM crap on the road.

I've got two Buicks. One is a Regal, the other is a Century. Both are WELL over 200,000 miles, with no problems, and still run well. If you're calling my cars crap, I WILL give you grief about that.:mad:
 
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Although I hate to see the loss of jobs this decision brings, all this means is less GM crap on the road.
I'm with David ... nothing but GM cars for me. I have had 3 that I put on close too 150k miles without any major investment outside of normal. The others I have sold by choice. Car maker choices will always be opinion, but for you calling GM crap, many others (besides David and myself) can state nothing but utter satisifaction with that same brand. Unless you have had some bad luck with GM products, your opinion is nothing more than that.

Having worked in the auto industry myself I can tell you that the technology used by the big 3 is virtually the same:
  • None of them train thier assembly workers any different than the others
  • They all share many of the same suppliers
  • UAW workers are are no different when working for any of the 3 automakers. Many in fact have worked for more than 1 of these companies.
Personal preference is fine, but it doesn't mean the others suck. Father and Grandfather are both GM retirees. I am brand loyal and will own nothing but GM products ... but it doesn't mean the other companies suck to me. It is just my choice not to own one of them.
 
I heard that any new P's still sitting on the lots will be sold "as is" with no warranty. You'd think there will be some good deals out there. Pontiac still makes some darn good cars. If I was in the market for a new vehicle right now, I would be targeting these "brand new used" cars because I think the dealers want to get rid of them. I drive a 2002 40th Anniversary GTP Grand Prix that suits me just fine; it has the 3.8L V6 with a cute little blower on top
 
I drive an '04 GTO and a couple of weeks ago I walked out of a place here in Vegas and there was an old man standing next to my car. I walked up and he asked if I liked the car and I told him I loved it. We chatted for a minute or 2 and he said "It's good to see young people still buy American cars". I retorted that the car was built in Australia and was merely a rebadged Holden. He furrowed his brow and said "in that case ... I hope the dammed wheels fall off" and he sauntered off in the night.

I think that perfectly sums up the demise of Pontiac.

PS I am still incredulous that Ferrari didn't sue the pants off GM for having the gall to call a car GTO.

PPS GTO is not Italian for "ready to race" ... it loosely translates to "take the scenic tour".
 
im a lifelong pontiac fan, and as an owner of a- 2001 grand prix gt, 1992 sunbird convertible, 1963 tempest sd clone, 1971 ventura street/strip car today is trully a sad day for me BUT---- pontiac is alive and well in pro stock baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! greg anderson your 2010 pro stock world champion! 115 pts ahead, all he has to do it qualify @ pomona! :D:D:D
 
You know, the death spiral began in the 80's when we lost differentiation between models. It was nothing to do with who puts the cars together. A good friend of mine worked for Nissan in Engineering. They study the Toyota way like everyone else. He told me Toyota works heavily on what's called "perceived quality" such as the sound of the doors closing and other visual ques. For example, the cost to build a Toyota Camry is roughly $10,000 while building a Lexus ES is $10,500. Toyota runs the Lexus through the paint both for 2 coats of clear instead of the Camry's one coat. Nissan copied the same idea with their Infinity line.

My wife rec'd a notice from Saturn that the local GM dealer takes over warranty of her Astra 3-door which is really an Opel. We were discussing the other day that our '06 Jeep Grand Cherokee has 57K trouble free miles. I mean nothing other than oil changes, new wiper blades, and a set of new tires. This is the same SUV that Consumer Reports says is not a good buy. Go figure.
 
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I've got two Buicks. One is a Regal, the other is a Century. Both are WELL over 200,000 miles, with no problems, and still run well. If you're calling my cars crap, I WILL give you grief about that.:mad:

Absolutely have to agree with you on this one. GM cars have been a large part of my life---worked in dealerships in the early years and eventually owned a part of a Chevy store. I have sold restoration parts for 30 years for GM cars. I have a garage full of Corvettes, Firebirds, Camaros, and Chevelles. Every manufacturer makes some good stuff, but in my opinion, GM is at the top of the heap. Didnt always like their management style, but always loved their cars and trucks.
 
im a lifelong pontiac fan, and as an owner of a- 2001 grand prix gt, 1992 sunbird convertible, 1963 tempest sd clone, 1971 ventura street/strip car today is trully a sad day for me BUT---- pontiac is alive and well in pro stock baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! greg anderson your 2010 pro stock world champion! 115 pts ahead, all he has to do it qualify @ pomona! :D:D:D

I'm a Mopar man through and through, but the BEST car I've ever owned was my brand new 1978 Gold Special Edition Pontiac Trans Am! I ordered the car with the "T/A 6.6" high perfromance 400 c.i. Pontiac engine along with the Hurst shifted 4-speed transmission. As a side note, the Service Manager at the dealership where I bought it, Troy Motors (MO), was none other than Jerry Bickel! If you don't believe my description of the performance of my Trans Am, just ask Jerry. He witnessed it all!! The car was bone stock and did everything well. At the same time I had an untouched, unrestored 1970 Charger R/T. It only had 18,000 miles on it and was near perfect. The original 440-Magnum ran great and was well tuned. I ran the Trans Am against my R/T Charger numerous times and out dragged my R/T every single time. I then got on a long stretch of straight highway and ran them on top end...thinking the big Mopar would pull away from the T/A in high gear. It was just the opposite. The Pontiac slowly pulled away from my R/T until the lifters floated on both cars at 130+ mph.

In closing...that was a Pontiac powered car. It was everything my nearly new R/T could handle and more. Oh....one more thing, the T/A was a cornering machine. My R/T was only good in a straight line. If I would have tried to compete with my T/A on a curvy road it wouldn't have been close. In fact, it would have been dangerous.

I also owned a Panther Pink 1970 Challenger T/A and even though it was a great running and cornering car, it was no where near the car my Pontiac Trans Am was. The Dodge 'Trans Am' was a great immitator, but nothing like the real Trans Am Pontiacs.

I'm a Mopar Man through and through...I've owned over 30 muscle Mopars alone, but the greatest single car I've ever owned was a PONTIAC!
 
I've never been a big Pontiac fan but it's still sad to see them go. I'd really like to have an '06 GTO though.
 
Phillip you have an idiot's opinion. Probably voted for the O too. :rolleyes:

Nice crawfish move there....at least you spelled my name right this time......and you couldn't be farther from the truth on the vote.
 
the death of pontiac, oldsmobile, mercury and i'm sure a few more to follow
started after WWII (not the 80's) when the 'big 3' enjoyed an oligopy enduring through
the 70's.
during this time the UAW took advantage of this situation and penned contracts
that not only insured good wages and benefits to the workers, but also to
the retirees.
move forward into 80's with japanese and korean automakers; they did not have high wage/benefit packages for
their workers and could for the first time compete against the 'big 3'
offering the same for less.
what followed for 3 decades was a situation where in order for the 'big 3' to
match the price of their foreign competitors, they were faced with upwards
of $1000 additional cost per vehicle, originating from wage/benefit agreements; so where did the 'big 3' shave this cost?.....from the automobile.
ever wonder why people say foreign cars are built better? because they ARE!

GM has reduced it's hourly union employees by about a third, they
have closed dealerships and think they've also renegotiated their retirement
with the UAW (not sure on that one?)..........all of this is aimed at creating
a cost advantage, not disadvantage which is where they have been mired
for decades.

i'm optimistic on GM's future - think we will start seeing more apples to apples
with non-USA competitors both in quality and price.

don't forget though, it's about the AUTOMAKER JOB, not the CAR; the parts in your american car are just as likely foreign as they are domestic.
 
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Although I hate to see the loss of jobs this decision brings, all this means is less GM crap on the road.

Maybe we should all drive jap cars like the toyota tundra, they never had any problems with those rusting in half. Get a life buddy.
 
Maybe we should all drive jap cars like the toyota tundra, they never had any problems with those rusting in half. Get a life buddy.

Who said anything about jap cars? I coulda sworn there were other American car makers out there. You guys are cracking me up with these comments.
 
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