No Prior Run

[Butch]

Umm, the left result is on the left side, the right result on the right... Hard to be much clearer than that.

(W) Spencer Massey (FRAM/Prestone Dragster) 0.052 3.795 317.64
(L) David Grubnic (Omptima Batteries Dragster) 0.064 10.350 50.37
Massey and Grubnic have each won 2 times against the other in prior events. Massey is out of the gate first and never trailed as Grubnic was up in smoke as soon as he hit the throttle. Massey with a great pass for the win and lane choice in the final in a rematch of last week's final.

OK Christopher; Now by reading the above results.
Tell me who was in the Rt lane.

Patrick; It seems your the only one that understood what I was *****ing about.

 

[clwill]

Sorry, it never dawned on me to look at NHRA.com for results.

I (and everyone I know) uses Drag Race Central | Presented by Summitracing.com 1-800-230-3030 which shows it straight out of the timing system. That shows the lanes as I indicated.

Sorry.

 

[nick name]

You are right, like I've said before, It's no longer HOW quick you run, it's WHEN you run quick. Not the quickest 16 anymore.

It's always been WHEN you run quick! Before the current method, if you didn't run quick in the best session, you weren't going to get in. That was usually Friday evening but sometimes it was Saturday morning. In essence, there was no need to hold more than one session if all you're looking for is a list from 1 to 16.

But what we're actually after, I think, is the 16 BEST cars to race on Sunday. This type of qualifying assures that. If you're drawn the bad lane or slightly miss the setup in the one good session, you still have a chance to show you're better than the other cars.

I can remember many times in Pro Stock (during the times when WJ or Wayne County were way ahead of the rest) that the #1 qualifier could not run as quickly as the 16th qualifier in either session Saturday. We called it "just burning gas" because absolutely nothing was going to be accomplished other than some additional data for the cars already in.

That, in a nutshell, is having to qualify WHEN.

As for posting the previous times, from my slight knowlege it would take a major revamp as I believe the data is cleared on Saturday. The FastNews guys often have a Friday sheet at hand and try to get the previous time mentioned. But the time it takes to run a pair of Pro Stock, for instance, is so short that's it's really hard to report on the run and get the old numbers included also.

If you'll notice, Rick Green almost always notes "runs his best pass of the weekend" or similar in most of the runs where it applies.

But, in the end, I think more people would be confused. I honestly see your point of view and have often wondered about the Friday times myself. But it just doesn't appear to be a problem that can be solved without creating bigger ones.

 

[d'kid]

Umm, the left result is on the left side, the right result on the right... Hard to be much clearer than that.

Chris...

Not talking about that joke they call live timing... you sneeze, you miss it... I get all my results from DRC, backed up by Comp-Plus, and RPM2night.

d'kid

 

[none]

Remember that the pros run for the entertainment of the fans. Too many scenarios where the Saturday fans have a worthless ticket. The rule would likely never be passed down to the sportsman ranks ... for many of the reasons cited above.

Jeff
Yea your right. Who cares about the sportsman guys, the only ones that do are NHRA when they suck up the entery fees.
We won the Comp Eliminator world championship in 1998 and ended up with 11 K pretty piss poor, most of the money came from the decals on the car.
Don't see it getting better for comp or the other sportsman.

 

[rckymtn3]

yup....fellow countdown/top12 qualifier haters, I am sitting at your table.

for those that insist that the top12 deal makes it interesting, all I can ask is "do you really need Nitro Drag Racing to be made more interesting?"

someone needs an action figure.

16 spot qualifying over 4 attempts was really geared for races that saw a lot of entrants (far more than the 18 or 19 that arrive) and day time qualifying.

qualifying has always produced the quickest 16....this top12 deal just sticks a sparkler up qualifying's ass and calls it more exciting. If you're thinking it isn't confusing, you need to tune into the show, and pretend you know nothing about drag racing, and then listen to them explain the top 16 qualifiers race on Sunday, but the top12 from Friday are in the show and the other four are not, but now they qualify for the field of 16. -CLICK- Another possible viewer with the attention span geared towards reality TV moves on to less convoluted pastures.

 

[Dave]

(W) Spencer Massey (FRAM/Prestone Dragster) 0.052 3.795 317.64
(L) David Grubnic (Omptima Batteries Dragster) 0.064 10.350 50.37
Massey and Grubnic have each won 2 times against the other in prior events. Massey is out of the gate first and never trailed as Grubnic was up in smoke as soon as he hit the throttle. Massey with a great pass for the win and lane choice in the final in a rematch of last week's final.

OK Christopher; Now by reading the above results.
Tell me who was in the Rt lane.

Patrick; It seems your the only one that understood what I was *****ing about.

That is how it reads on NHRA.com, but he was referring to the drag race central version which reads like this:

Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT-----ET---Speed-----Car#-Driver(Opp'nt)-RT----ET---Speed
2 Spencer Massey 44 David Grubnic
E3 ****WINNER**** 0.052 3.795 317.64 0.064 10.350 50.37
Prior rounds:
E2 (K alBalooshi) 0.063 3.782 311.92 (S Langdon ) 0.050 3.797 319.22
E1 (T Zizzo ) 0.050 3.803 310.77 (T McMillen ) 0.077 5.136 276.41
Qualified: #2 3.752 326.16 #3 3.773 317.94

Without all the clustered up formatting that doesn't seem to read right. But in this example Spencer Massey's name is on the left side so he's in the left lane, and David Grubnic is listed to the right, so he's in the right lane.

NHRA.com just orders it by winner and loser.

Here's a link to the page i'm trying to explain. ST. LOUIS - Top Fuel Round 3 Eliminations

 

[Rat]

I find it amazing that this thread was never about whether the top 12 system is liked or disliked and is only really about Drag Results showing the teams best run when they are not in the top 12. No one really seems to get what this thread is about. Let me explain:

We will use The Greek.

NHRA's way:

Friday: Q2: C. Karamesines Runs 3.974/305.98, Now #14
No Prior Run
This is correct.

Saturday:
Q3: C. Karamesines Runs 4.086/295.27, Now #20
No Prior Run
Q4: C. Karamesines Runs 4.098/272.83, Now #20
Best prior run: 4.086/295.27, Was #20

The way it should be:

Friday: Q2: C. Karamesines Runs 3.974/305.98, Now #14
No Prior Run
This is correct.

Saturday:

Q3: C. Karamesines Runs 4.086/295.27, Now #20
Best prior run: 3.974/305.98*

* denotes was not good enough for fri top 12

Q4: C. Karamesines Runs 4.098/272.83, Now #20
Best Sat Run: 4.086/295.27
Best run: 3.974/305.98* Was #20


Under this system it would show you 2 very important things.

1. Was the team able to beat their best time or come close
2. Did the top 12 rule screw them by throwing out their best run when it may have made saturday. In this case it did not, but it has screwed teams before and will again.

For the record because it went there I am not a fan of the top 12. The countdown was one thing I can LIVE WITH but throwing out a team's run is complete bs in my opinion, especially when they get screwed. Usually the teams hurt by this rule are often the low budget racers and the NHRA is fine with throwing out the time, money, and effort that it took that team to make the run. I view the top 12 rule as a gigantic ***** slap. Sure like most i would say ok, just run the same time again Saturday, but the majority of the events offer only one good qualifying day. The NHRA has created enough drama with qualifying points and the countdown, they really should do away with this top 12 rule. I think it hurts more teams that it ever helps.

 

[Dave]

I find it amazing that this thread was never about whether the top 12 system is liked or disliked and is only really about Drag Results showing the teams best run when they are not in the top 12. No one really seems to get what this thread is about. Let me explain:

We will use The Greek.

NHRA's way:

Friday: Q2: C. Karamesines Runs 3.974/305.98, Now #14
No Prior Run
This is correct.

Saturday:
Q3: C. Karamesines Runs 4.086/295.27, Now #20
No Prior Run
Q4: C. Karamesines Runs 4.098/272.83, Now #20
Best prior run: 4.086/295.27, Was #20

The way it should be:

Friday: Q2: C. Karamesines Runs 3.974/305.98, Now #14
No Prior Run
This is correct.

Saturday:

Q3: C. Karamesines Runs 4.086/295.27, Now #20
Best prior run: 3.974/305.98*

* denotes was not good enough for fri top 12

Q4: C. Karamesines Runs 4.098/272.83, Now #20
Best Sat Run: 4.086/295.27
Best run: 3.974/305.98* Was #20


Under this system it would show you 2 very important things.

1. Was the team able to beat their best time or come close
2. Did the top 12 rule screw them by throwing out their best run when it may have made saturday. In this case it did not, but it has screwed teams before and will again.

For the record because it went there I am not a fan of the top 12. The countdown was one thing I can LIVE WITH but throwing out a team's run is complete bs in my opinion, especially when they get screwed. Usually the teams hurt by this rule are often the low budget races and the NHRA is fine with throwing out the time, money, and effort that it took that team to make the run. I view the top 12 rule as a gigantic ***** slap. Sure like most i would say ok, just run the same time again Saturday, but the majority of the events offer only one good qualifying day.

If that's the case, why not, for qualifying, use their eliminations format and just show all prior runs for each car anyways.

You're going to only have a max of 3 prior runs under the 4th session run notes, and you can put the * next to session 1 and 2 if they weren't good enough for the top 12 on friday.

Like this using Spencer's sunday elim runs as an example.
2 Spencer Massey
Q3 0.052 3.795 317.64
Prior rounds:
Q2 0.063 3.782 311.92 *
Q1 0.050 3.803 310.77 *

 

[clwill]

My assumption is that there is no allowance in the CompuLink timing system for a "run that doesn't count". A run happened or it didn't. I assume what happens is that Friday night (Sat am?), someone goes into the system and manually tosses out the runs that didn't make the top 12.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

No, it used to be everyone had 4 runs, 2 in each lane, and your QUICKEST run was counted. didn't mater what lane, or what day.

Now, if your best run is good for #13, but you do it on Fri. it doesn't count???
That system is dumber than the countdown.

 

[Rat]

No, it used to be everyone had 4 runs, 2 in each lane, and your QUICKEST run was counted. didn't mater what lane, or what day.

Now, if your best run is good for #13, but you do it on Fri. it doesn't count???
That system is dumber than the countdown.

Well said!

 

[twostep]

From CP's forum:

Want to hear something really bizarre?

Everyone makes four passes, 2 Friday, 2 Saturday, the same as it is now. Throw out the worst pass and average the other 3. At the end of the day Saturday, you have your 16 car field, lowest average ET #1 and so on down the line. Somewhat like how your 4 lap average speed qualifies you, and your position, for the Indy 500.

Miss the setup on Friday night? Toss that pass. Get loose at 900 feet on Saturday afternoon? It doesn't count. Break a valve spring in Round 1? Fix it and rock on. And if you blow two passes, maybe you don't need to be in the top 16.

An exception could be made for a rainout. If Saturday is lost, then skip the averaging deal and just take the top 16 from Friday.

Comments?

 

[PJ]

From CP's forum:

Want to hear something really bizarre?

Everyone makes four passes, 2 Friday, 2 Saturday, the same as it is now. Throw out the worst pass and average the other 3. At the end of the day Saturday, you have your 16 car field, lowest average ET #1 and so on down the line. Somewhat like how your 4 lap average speed qualifies you, and your position, for the Indy 500.

Miss the setup on Friday night? Toss that pass. Get loose at 900 feet on Saturday afternoon? It doesn't count. Break a valve spring in Round 1? Fix it and rock on. And if you blow two passes, maybe you don't need to be in the top 16.

An exception could be made for a rainout. If Saturday is lost, then skip the averaging deal and just take the top 16 from Friday.

Comments?

interesting, they could still give the "liltle bonus points" for best of each round.

This might be an interesting idea.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

From CP's forum:

Want to hear something really bizarre?

Everyone makes four passes, 2 Friday, 2 Saturday, the same as it is now. Throw out the worst pass and average the other 3. At the end of the day Saturday, you have your 16 car field, lowest average ET #1 and so on down the line. Somewhat like how your 4 lap average speed qualifies you, and your position, for the Indy 500.

Miss the setup on Friday night? Toss that pass. Get loose at 900 feet on Saturday afternoon? It doesn't count. Break a valve spring in Round 1? Fix it and rock on. And if you blow two passes, maybe you don't need to be in the top 16.

An exception could be made for a rainout. If Saturday is lost, then skip the averaging deal and just take the top 16 from Friday.

Comments?

I still like the old way best, (the 16 quickest race) but I could live with this.
It sure beats the 12 Fri. rule.

 

[T.Smith]

With today's drag racing technology and resources, the only sensible way to go back to a top 16 format is to have two night time qualifiers or no night time qualifiers.

Otherwise, you all can pound sand, the top 12 rule should and will stay.

 

[Joker]

With today's drag racing technology and resources, the only sensible way to go back to a top 16 format is to have two night time qualifiers or no night time qualifiers.

Otherwise, you all can pound sand, the top 12 rule should and will stay.

100% agree

 

[Gordon]

100% agree

x2!

I thought this was a good idea when they adopted it and I still feel that way today. A lot of low-buck teams choose not to run the Friday night session simply because they know they can't rotate the earth and they'll have a better shot on Saturday. It's really not that confusing.

Averaging times would bring a whole new set of unintended consequences and is, in my opinion, a bad idea.

Take a car that has trouble in the first three sessions and doesn't make a full pull in any of them. Today, the driver lifts almost immediately because he or she knows they have another shot. But if the first three passes were wasted, why run Q4? The driver's average is probably already too low to get in no matter what they run in Q4. Then, in the future the same driver starts legging every qualifying run to the stripe no matter what the car is doing... which leads to oil downs, crashes, etc. Sounds good initially, but nitromater would have a new thread almost immediately complaining about the "new" issues created by the averaging rule.

 

[twostep]

Sounds good initially, but nitromater would have a new thread almost immediately complaining about the "new" issues created by the averaging rule.

Nitromater has a new thread complaining about something every day, anyway....

Point taken, and you're probably right. But every method is a compromise and NHRA, who I'm pretty sure has at one time or another discussed ET averaging and decided against it, has decided the 12 + 4 deal is better overall.

I'm still pissed if I'm that #13 guy from Friday, and if I run four straight 3.85 passes and someone else blows up, smokes, pops the chutes early and otherwise blows 3 passes, then lays down a 3.75, he's #1 and I might not even be in the field at all...I'm pissed. But under the averaging rule, Mr. 3.75 is outta here, so he's pissed....

I reckon it'll just have to stay like it is. Sometimes thinking out of the box if fun, though.

 

[PJ]

x2!

I thought this was a good idea when they adopted it and I still feel that way today. A lot of low-buck teams choose not to run the Friday night session simply because they know they can't rotate the earth and they'll have a better shot on Saturday. It's really not that confusing.

Averaging times would bring a whole new set of unintended consequences and is, in my opinion, a bad idea.

Take a car that has trouble in the first three sessions and doesn't make a full pull in any of them. Today, the driver lifts almost immediately because he or she knows they have another shot. But if the first three passes were wasted, why run Q4? The driver's average is probably already too low to get in no matter what they run in Q4. Then, in the future the same driver starts legging every qualifying run to the stripe no matter what the car is doing... which leads to oil downs, crashes, etc. Sounds good initially, but nitromater would have a new thread almost immediately complaining about the "new" issues created by the averaging rule.

I didn't think about the likely increase in oil downs. Good point.

One point about the old system that I miss, due to the difficulty of not getting in if you blew it on Friday you had more high profile DNQ's, thus giving the little guys more of a chance. I guess with smaller fields now it doesn't really matter.

Either way the Q deal is no big deal