Nightmare At 2009 Winternationals (1 Viewer)

[brewmaster]

What if only 9 Top Fuel cars attempt and qualify in February for the Winternationals. First round we would see 1 race and 7 single runs. The only incentive for a full pull would be 2nd round lane choice or data gathering. With only 9 cars attempting to qualify, how many runs would each car make? All 4? Not likely.

Another scenario: 8 cars qualify. Would the first round be 8 single runs or would Graham Light just shine it on and pair 'em for the second round? As a ticket holder, I paid for 4 rounds of competition. Did I get them? But look at the bright side. NHRA would not have to pay $72,000 in first round loser money - that's $1,728,000 saved per season which could be divived up amoung the teams that did compete (not likely) or could go into the Corporate Executive Bonus Fund (more likely).

I grew up in Santa Ana, Calif. Went to my first drag race in 1958. Sure miss the Lions PDA and Bakersfield March Meets in the 60s. Over 100 Top Fuelers trying for 64 spots. As Joni Mitchell sang: "You don't know what you got 'til its gone". If NHRA does not reduce the cost of Niro racing, we may be telling our grandchildren about the time there were 16 Top Fuel and 16 Funny Cars that competed at National Events.

---------------
The Brewmaster
Former AA/FA Fixer

 

[scooter]

I think some of the bigger races will be ok,but some of the smaller ones will be In trouble. I'm glad I don't have tickets for Denver anymore.

 

[Wes]

With 9 cars you still get 4 rounds.

First round pairings would be as such.

#1 vs. Bye
#2 vs. #9
#3 vs. #8
#4 vs. #7
#5 vs. #6

Second round would have 5 returning racers, so the next bye run would go to the winner of the #2 vs. #9 match-up.

Third round would have three returning racers. The bye would be on the "bottom" half of the odd-numbered qualifiers.

Final round would be two racers as normal.

No racer would ever get more than one laddered bye run during eliminations.

I'll go over this one more time. In any ladder generator (Pro or Sportsman) there is only ONE bye run per round of racing (save for a Competition Bye due to breakage or a no-show). The low qualifier will always get the first chance at a bye run. In the case above it comes in the first round due to the odd number of cars in round one.

 

[Jenn]

Wow, the sky is still falling!

(and welcome to the mater)

 

[brewmaster]

Thanks for correcting me on the 9 car example. What would the elimination ladder look like with 8 cars? No first round or 8 singles? Just wondering...

 

[Wes]

8-Cars, Pro Ladder

#1 vs. #8
#2 vs. #7
#3 vs. #6
#4 vs. #5

That would indeed be a three-rounder. The way the NHRA purses are advertised the association and the track would stand to save some cash with the dimished fields.

Here's another ladder scenario...

6-Cars, Pro Ladder
#1 vs. #6
#2 vs. #5
#3 vs. #4

There would be one bye-run in the Semis awarded to the winner of the #1 vs. #6 match.

Follow this link and have some fun with it....

Index

 

[clock guy]

1-8
4-5
2-7
3-6

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Bruce & Wes - 2009 Rulebook Section 2 - Race Procedures: Ladders
"Category pairings are based upon established "ladder" charts. Qualifying elapsed times determine ladder positions. Once established, pairings are not changed unless NHRA determines there is adequate justification for a change. In situations where fields are not filled, such as 14 cars entering for a 16 car field, a 14 car ladder will be used, not a 16 car ladder." No further details.
So, it appears Wes is correct. 14, 12 or 10 car fields will result in bye runs. It appears an 8 car field will result in the loss of a round. No multiple byes in any round. It will be interesting to see what transpires!

 

[Walter]

I think you will see full fields at the start of the year. Folks will have fresh equipment, spares, some money, and marriage credits. As the season wears on, all of the foregoing will diminish and then the small fields will hit.

 

[rocketman]

I think you will see full fields at some races like the Winnernationals and the Gators but once their at the O'Rielly this race and the O'Reilly that race, then you see less cars.

 

[Toejam]

What phrase was Jim Morrison famous for? "I'm gonna get my kicks before the whole Sh*thouse goes up in Flames!" I guess Drag racing as we all know it is officially over!

This whole chaos that people think about this sport, is it really that Important that NHRA have 15-16 TFD's at a Race? I go to the track to get the FULL Experience! Fuel cars, Alky cars, Comp eliminator! Walking the pits seeing friends and such. And should I see only 12-13 TFD (guessing...) at Pomona I'm not going to piss and moan! There's another 500 cars out there putting on a show! I just don't buy into this "Nitro racing is dying" theme, there are Plenty of lesser funded teams that won't waste they're $$$ trying to qualify when they know they can't run 3.80-3.90's. And the fact that 1000' racing makes it more affordable for smaller teams, I'm willing to bet that the car counts are higher than people expect. We may not see a full field at a lot of races, but I don't think we'll just see 10-11 cars either!

 

[Watchman]

If NHRA does not reduce the cost of Niro racing, we may be telling our grandchildren about the time there were 16 Top Fuel and 16 Funny Cars that competed at National Events.

---------------
The Brewmaster
Former AA/FA Fixer

I tell my kids about 32 car fields of the past.

There needs to be rule changes that make T/F somewhere between the T/F cars of today and the A- Fuel cars.

1 mag, 1 fuel pump, no lock-up clutch ect.

It would reduce cost and maybe bring some of the a-fuel up to T/F.

Blown Nitro is still blown Nitro. They might not run 300mph but it would still make your heart miss a beat, blur your vision burn your eyes and shake the ground.

mike

 

[NHRAMike]

With 9 cars you still get 4 rounds.

First round pairings would be as such.

#1 vs. Bye
#2 vs. #9
#3 vs. #8
#4 vs. #7
#5 vs. #6

Second round would have 5 returning racers, so the next bye run would go to the winner of the #2 vs. #9 match-up.

Third round would have three returning racers. The bye would be on the "bottom" half of the odd-numbered qualifiers.

Final round would be two racers as normal.

No racer would ever get more than one laddered bye run during eliminations.

I'll go over this one more time. In any ladder generator (Pro or Sportsman) there is only ONE bye run per round of racing (save for a Competition Bye due to breakage or a no-show). The low qualifier will always get the first chance at a bye run. In the case above it comes in the first round due to the odd number of cars in round one.

The f-ed up thing about a 9 car ladder is that number 1 & 2 cars meet in the semi-finals. The pairings are as follows:
Round 1
#1 vs bye
#5 vs #6
#2 vs #9
bye vs bye

The other half is
#3 vs #8
#4 vs #7
bye vs bye
bye vs bye

If the favorite in each pairing wins the second round becomes:

#1 vs #5
#2 vs bye
and
#3 vs #4
bye vs bye

So now in the semis:
#1 vs #2
and
#3 vs bye

Which makes a final of #1 and #3

If anyone wants to generate their own ladder go here

 

[George.]

All of this, along with the 3 second squirt track length?.
I'm not going to bother....

 

[mastertone]

Another scenario: 8 cars qualify. Would the first round be 8 single runs or would Graham Light just shine it on and pair 'em for the second round? As a ticket holder, I paid for 4 rounds of competition. Did I get them? But look at the bright side. NHRA would not have to pay $72,000 in first round loser money - that's $1,728,000 saved per season which could be divived up amoung the teams that did compete (not likely) or could go into the Corporate Executive Bonus Fund (more likely).


---------------
The Brewmaster
Former AA/FA Fixer

You this thread amazes me. Just be glad you have a job & the money to be able to attend. Things might not be tough in your world but for many of us I would love just to be able to afford going to that race. And for me the Alchohol cars are just as entertaining as the fuel cars, at least they usually make full passes!

 

[Jenn]

You this thread amazes me. Just be glad you have a job & the money to be able to attend. Things might not be tough in your world but for many of us I would love just to be able to afford going to that race. And for me the Alchohol cars are just as entertaining as the fuel cars, at least they usually make full passes!

well said Craig.

 

[Rajunz]

I went to alot of National events in the 70's that had less than 8 cars show up. I was still happy to see what little Nitro racing that was available. The sport survived those tough times.

 

[vegasnitro]

I fully believe there will be 16 at Pomona for Top Fuel. First race of the year and all ... I also believe we will have 16 for Phoenix, Gainesville and Vegas 1. After that, my crystal ball gets blurry ...

 

[force fan]

I just hope everyone keeps thinking the worst and not attend the races. Less crowds for me to have to fight my way through!!!! Anyone who has attended Gainesville knows exactly what I mean!!!! Like I always tell the newbies, come late and leave early you don't miss much. Same for you guys who are thinking negative, don't come to the races your not missing anything!!!!

 

[Guppy]

[QUOTE
1 mag, 1 fuel pump, no lock-up clutch ect.

[/QUOTE]

If it ever comes to this, I will have time to pursue other interests or just go alky racing. It's called TOP fuel, not little league fuel.