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NHRA could learn from NASCAR

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This entire thread is based on the premise that the NHRA has an interest in learning.

What's to learn if you already know everything?

NHRA is more interested in extracting an ever bigger portion from a pie they themselves are shrinking. Crony Capitalism as practiced by a not for profit corporation. As long as the people at the top are satisfied with their personal earnings, why should they care about growing the sport?

Ahhh, for a modern day Larry Carrier or Jim Tice to give NHRA the competition they need to get on the ball. They've been on Peter Principal auto-pilot for over 20 years now and it works for them, so why should they care about the state of modern drag racing?

It is unfortunate they seem to be getting their greedy little hands all over nostalgia nitro racing. That entire community was borne from all those that still liked nitro, but wanted the "three guys with good jobs" Goodguys paradigm, instead of dedicating their lives in servitude of muiti-million dollar budgets and corporate sponsors just to go out there.

But, consider the source here. I've been a knee jerk NHRA basher for a long time, now, and it may be more about societal change than NHRA ineptitude, anyway.

Couple more thoughts - I was too young to have been a part of what I consider the golden era of drag racing, back in the tire smoking 230 mph FED era. I would rather watch a 1320 foot long smoking the whole way 215 mph run than the current 320 mph/1000 foot racing. It is now too fast to appreciate or even see much driving. Back in 1965 the driver could be seen working the car the entire run, and it was slow enough that a normal person could see what was going on. You need the metabolism of a hummingbird to process the data overload of a modern fuel run!

There were 200,000,000 in the USA around 1965. Our population now is 300,000,000, an increase of 50%. It's too bad the total number of operating dragstrips in 2012 is perhaps less than half of 1965.

-90% jimmy
 
This entire thread is based on the premise that the NHRA has an interest in learning.

What's to learn if you already know everything?

NHRA is more interested in extracting an ever bigger portion from a pie they themselves are shrinking. Crony Capitalism as practiced by a not for profit corporation. As long as the people at the top are satisfied with their personal earnings, why should they care about growing the sport?

Ahhh, for a modern day Larry Carrier or Jim Tice to give NHRA the competition they need to get on the ball. They've been on Peter Principal auto-pilot for over 20 years now and it works for them, so why should they care about the state of modern drag racing?

It is unfortunate they seem to be getting their greedy little hands all over nostalgia nitro racing. That entire community was borne from all those that still liked nitro, but wanted the "three guys with good jobs" Goodguys paradigm, instead of dedicating their lives in servitude of muiti-million dollar budgets and corporate sponsors just to go out there.

But, consider the source here. I've been a knee jerk NHRA basher for a long time, now, and it may be more about societal change than NHRA ineptitude, anyway.

Couple more thoughts - I was too young to have been a part of what I consider the golden era of drag racing, back in the tire smoking 230 mph FED era. I would rather watch a 1320 foot long smoking the whole way 215 mph run than the current 320 mph/1000 foot racing. It is now too fast to appreciate or even see much driving. Back in 1965 the driver could be seen working the car the entire run, and it was slow enough that a normal person could see what was going on. You need the metabolism of a hummingbird to process the data overload of a modern fuel run!

There were 200,000,000 in the USA around 1965. Our population now is 300,000,000, an increase of 50%. It's too bad the total number of operating dragstrips in 2012 is perhaps less than half of 1965.

-90% jimmy

What he said !!!!
 
IMHO The problem is NHRA is trying to follow the NASCRAP Model...

How long will it be before there is 1 approved Top Fuel Design and 1 Funny Car Blob Body with stickers.

Drag Racing was built on Innovation... Thank God some remember that...

Note: For those of you that say the Funny Cars are already there, ACTUALLY take a close look the next time you are at a race. They is a lot of differences between the four major current bodies...

Hell want to fill the stands:

1. Bring back AA/FA with 110" max wheel base with a single pump, single mag supercharged on Nitro using NAA/TF rules.

2. Change Top Alcohol Funny Car and Dragster into a Pro Comp Style class adding AA/FA 110" max wheel base style Altereds and run all on the current Blown Alcohol/Injected Nitro setups and minimum aero. The stand would actually stay full instead of turning into a ghost town when the class was running and speed / ET would be controlled by what the car could handle... Big Jim Dunn should be used as a consultant...

BTW I use to watch NASCAR and enjoy it before the fall... Remember when NASCAR was Cool, I do... NASCAR RIP Died 1974... :rolleyes:
 
This entire thread is based on the premise that the NHRA has an interest in learning.

What's to learn if you already know everything?

NHRA is more interested in extracting an ever bigger portion from a pie they themselves are shrinking. Crony Capitalism as practiced by a not for profit corporation. As long as the people at the top are satisfied with their personal earnings, why should they care about growing the sport?

Ahhh, for a modern day Larry Carrier or Jim Tice to give NHRA the competition they need to get on the ball. They've been on Peter Principal auto-pilot for over 20 years now and it works for them, so why should they care about the state of modern drag racing?

It is unfortunate they seem to be getting their greedy little hands all over nostalgia nitro racing. That entire community was borne from all those that still liked nitro, but wanted the "three guys with good jobs" Goodguys paradigm, instead of dedicating their lives in servitude of muiti-million dollar budgets and corporate sponsors just to go out there.

But, consider the source here. I've been a knee jerk NHRA basher for a long time, now, and it may be more about societal change than NHRA ineptitude, anyway.

Couple more thoughts - I was too young to have been a part of what I consider the golden era of drag racing, back in the tire smoking 230 mph FED era. I would rather watch a 1320 foot long smoking the whole way 215 mph run than the current 320 mph/1000 foot racing. It is now too fast to appreciate or even see much driving. Back in 1965 the driver could be seen working the car the entire run, and it was slow enough that a normal person could see what was going on. You need the metabolism of a hummingbird to process the data overload of a modern fuel run!

There were 200,000,000 in the USA around 1965. Our population now is 300,000,000, an increase of 50%. It's too bad the total number of operating dragstrips in 2012 is perhaps less than half of 1965.

-90% jimmy

The "three guys with good jobs" part of this quote says a whole lot. I am sure there are a multitude of guys and gals out there who would love to participate in fuel racing that dont want to make it their full time profession. A friend of mine who has since left us, told me a story about taking a stab at driving a fueler in the 60's owned by a couple of guys who had a gas station. For about $10K in those days you could build a fueler. Now I know that was a chunk of change in the 60's, but much more accessable even then than the 3 or 4 million needed to play today. Like it or not, the fact that money has forced most of the little guys out of the "hobby" certainly has a lot to do with the decline in interest.
 
Careful what you wish for. If NHRA tries to emulate NASCAR lock step, AGAIN, this time, instead of Pro Stock Truck , we'll be watching Pro Stock Hybrid or Pro Stock Electric. Or, if they're really visionary this time, maybe it will be Pro Stock Solar?

And then we'll be entertained by a year or two of Pro Stock _______ class action lawsuits when NHRA decides to kill the class! AGAIN!

-jim
 
Careful what you wish for. If NHRA tries to emulate NASCAR lock step, AGAIN, this time, instead of Pro Stock Truck , we'll be watching Pro Stock Hybrid or Pro Stock Electric. Or, if they're really visionary this time, maybe it will be Pro Stock Solar?

And then we'll be entertained by a year or two of Pro Stock _______ class action lawsuits when NHRA decides to kill the class! AGAIN!

-jim

Pro stock Ricer?
 
IMHO The problem is NHRA is trying to follow the NASCRAP Model...

How long will it be before there is 1 approved Top Fuel Design and 1 Funny Car Blob Body with stickers.

Drag Racing was built on Innovation... Thank God some remember that...

Note: For those of you that say the Funny Cars are already there, ACTUALLY take a close look the next time you are at a race. They is a lot of differences between the four major current bodies...

Hell want to fill the stands:

1. Bring back AA/FA with 110" max wheel base with a single pump, single mag supercharged on Nitro using NAA/TF rules.

2. Change Top Alcohol Funny Car and Dragster into a Pro Comp Style class adding AA/FA 110" max wheel base style Altereds and run all on the current Blown Alcohol/Injected Nitro setups and minimum aero. The stand would actually stay full instead of turning into a ghost town when the class was running and speed / ET would be controlled by what the car could handle... Big Jim Dunn should be used as a consultant...

BTW I use to watch NASCAR and enjoy it before the fall... Remember when NASCAR was Cool, I do... NASCAR RIP Died 1974... :rolleyes:

Someone needs a time machine
 
Flame suit on..

Unfortunately , the evolution of the NHRA, along with the latest and fastest technology has "ruled out" the effect of the driver, If you want to learn racing fan 101 all over again, look to Nascar. You win or lose by the fan's love of the driver and the respect for his or her skill set as a driver. Personally, I think the NHRA has themselves so backed up in the corner, that it's too late.

This may be sacrilegious but...
I don't believe the world has any respect for the NHRA drivers, and rightly so.
Personally, and this may be offensive to some drivers out there, but anybody can sit in a seat, stab a pedal and drive a fuel car if they have the will and the money. All there is left to talk about is reaction time, and that's just not a skill that someone will tune in to see. In Nascar, either you have the talent to drive, or you don't, and your particular talent will be on display for over three hours on race day, not three seconds..

The talent level needs of an NHRA drivers has been so reduced over the years, be it from timing devices, transmission less combos, 1,000' squirts, umm, three second driving intervals, etc.
Compare the 70's and 80's driver to the driver of today, and it just fails to impress the average fan.
Add 1,000' racing on TV that looks even worse. Now, you have a long shot of winning over a ticket sale from Nascar.

If anybody thinks that any average race fan can't see this, you are only kidding yourself.
 
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Did someone need a time machine?

Almost Mediocre Blog Archive Time Travelin’ Dickhead Roommate – Episode 1

Nostalgia about the past can play tricks on you. Our minds tend to remember the good stuff and throw out the bad. I could usually beg my dad to take me to New York National a couple of times a year, where, we usually missed first round waiting in the parking cue. It was here I heard over the P.A. about Dickie Harrell going up sideways on one wheel at a Super Stock Nationals.

I recall the fuel races of that era rarely had much side by side. One car was usually decent and the other popped and sputtered or was so out of tune to be about 200 feet behind the other. Today's fuel racing does seem to enjoy a lot more close races than the distant past. If I had been fortunate enough to attend Lion's PDA shows, Bakersfield Smokers, NHRA Winternats, OCIR Manufacturer's F/C Championships, and 64 car open Lions Saturday Fuel shows, perhaps offered better side by side racing?

Nostalgia is a yearning for an idealized past that maybe wasn't so good, anyway, in a lot of areas.

You can't go home again.

-90% jimmy
 
Good post, George. 1,000 foot nitro racing is about HALF as enjoyable as 1320, to me, anyway. What? That's it, that was the whole race???!!!

I enjoy TAD and TAFC racing a lot, and always have. As Keith Ferrell once told me, those guys are the TRUE RACERS. When the stands clear for these cars, I am just amazed that the bleachers are full of stupid fans that leave the stands en masse that have no appreciation for alcohol racing.

I've even developed a taste for Pro Stock racing, as they do a lot of driving and they are about as fast as a 1975 TFD and about as quick as a 1966 TFD.

Racing gas smells cool, too.

My preposterous, ignorant suggestions for modern nitro, to make it exciting and still really safe:

90% nitro and 400 C.I.

or

500 C.I. and 50% nitro max.

Hmmmm, just thought of this - how about both combos - kinda like TAD blown alcohol and unblown nitro?

and back to 1320, of course. Keep it at 1000 feet for the shortest 25% of Big Show tracks.

When I walk past the exhaust of a propane fork lift now and then, the aroma is how I remember fuel cars from the 60's. I suspect back then over 90% was very unusual and the norm was more in the 50-60% zone and perhaps some racers tuned with %? The smell I recall was a lot more pleasant and nice than current nitro, which is more acrid and unattractive, odor-wise, than my archetypal acid casualty** memories of 60's fuel racing?

My new class that will probably appeal only to those over 50, would be modern AA/GS. Stock appearing bodies, pulled or laser scanned from original steel, with blown gas motors, Only body mods would be riveted formed aluminum, no sculpting a facsimile from scratch, as I think they do for all the Pro Mod bodies out there? 33-41 Willy's, 48-55? Anglia's, same era for Austins, Henry J's and what ever other bodies out there that were cool.

Lastly, to increase attendance so much it would require more grandstands, some Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs type has to invent a way to combine on site spectating with TEXTING. We now have an entire generation of zombified youth that are welded to their i-pads and cell phones non-stop. (Makes me wonder if modern young couples text each other while plooking*?) If it could somehow be interactive with the racing, we could get our youth cross addicted! Talk about creating customer loyalty!

Lastly Part Deux, is there any class out there in modern drag racing that uses roots-blown gas motors? As a cnc machinist, I am a little offended that the entire driveline of a modern fuel car is on the verge of catastrophic failure, by design!, And requires 18 energetic young people to rebuild every round. It's a really rotten way to show respect for so many lovingly crafted parts!

-90% Jimmy

AKA: "The Central Scrutinizer"

*definition can be found on Joe's Garage, acts 1, 2 and 3 by Frank Zappa

** term used by Zappa in 1974 to describe original member of the Mothers of Invention Ray Collins - even before they were the Mothers and called themselves The Soul Giants. Zappa/Collins wrote one of the Penguins last songs, a non-hit called Memories of El Monte. Zappa said by then most of the members had gone and were just guys from the car wash.
 
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Someone needs a time machine

True.

Where I live in So Cal there were at least 10 Active 1/4 Drags Strip in a 100 Mile radius and most had Weekly Fuel Racing... A Fuel Car, Gasser etc could race 3 places in the same week without a problem...

Today there was 3 1/8 miles (1 just closed) 2 1/4 both with either a very limited schedule (2 races a year) or Noise Issue... so 4 tracks (2-1/8 and 2-1/4)with 2 fuel races a year and all with a VERY limited Schedule...

I guess if you never had that you have no idea what it's like...:rolleyes:
 
$5 million on the research....and what did they find?
they lost me as a fan around the time that Dale Sr. passed.
I had no childhood heros left that raced,and all thats left is a bunch of youg guys.
I would watch them races all the time and when the #43 of Petty was out,so was I ..outside playing!



I think their game plan is working accordingly, and the 5 million spent looks like a heck of deal considering the payoff:
While you were outside playing because the King is old, over 36 million people watched the Daytona 500 on TV. 36 million people watching sponsors advertising for hours, building a new, stronger advertising format for someone looking to invest in motor sports as their advertising vehicle of choice.

Nascar is doing a terrific job marketing themselves again, and the data purchased for 5 million will make them 500 million...

Kyle Busch, Tony Stewart, Danica Patrick, Carl Edwards, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr..
The list of Nascar household name starpower is endless, while the list of drivers of the NHRA are not recognizable to anyone, anywhere.
Definitely two motor sports racing in different directions.
 
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I think their game plan is working accordingly, and the 5 million spent looks like a heck of deal considering the payoff:
While you were outside playing because the King is old, over 36 million people watched the Daytona 500 on TV. 36 million people watching sponsors advertising for hours, building a new, stronger advertising format for someone looking to invest in motor sports as their advertising vehicle of choice.

Nascar is doing a terrific job marketing themselves again, and the data purchased for 5 million will make them 500 million...

Kyle Busch, Tony Stewart, Danica Patrick, Carl Edwards, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr..
The list of Nascar household name starpower is endless, while the list of drivers of the NHRA are not recognizable to anyone, anywhere.
Definitely two motor sports racing in different directions.

NASCAR has been on top of the Motorsports roost for about 15 years! But they are Nowhere as viable as they were just 5-6 years ago, otherwise why spend $5 mil? If curious what is NASCAR's way of reaching out to Minorities, are we gonna see quotas for every team, are qualified white drivers gonna get overlooked for Minorities just to keep the France family happy? Hmmmmmmmm......
 
NASCAR has been on top of the Motorsports roost for about 15 years! But they are Nowhere as viable as they were just 5-6 years ago, otherwise why spend $5 mil? If curious what is NASCAR's way of reaching out to Minorities, are we gonna see quotas for every team, are qualified white drivers gonna get overlooked for Minorities just to keep the France family happy? Hmmmmmmmm......

Every team out there has at least 1 Aussie or Kiwi on their crew. :p
 
NASCAR has been on top of the Motorsports roost for about 15 years! But they are Nowhere as viable as they were just 5-6 years ago, otherwise why spend $5 mil? ......


Nowhere near as viable?
Really?
Do you see a lack of major names on the hoods in Nascar?
No bottom feeding like the NHRA must do with dog food, or remote control car BS sponsorship. I guarantee the average sponsorship annual contribution are three to five times the size of a top level NHRA team. I bet you would shudder if you saw what some of these "major" NHRA sponsors are actually paying their teams. Shudder as in desperately low.
In this economy, Nascar's sponsorship participation from corporate America is more of a success story than even in the best of times.

5 Million?
Do you think thee is something wrong with leadership that recognizes a changing economy and marketplace?
Or maybe they should be like the NHRA and never recognize a problem the size of the Titanic, and just become less viable?
 
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George,

I would argue one point, not all those hoods are painted. Roush has a couple of teams that are not fully funded for the year. Hendrick is sponsoring an RCR car for a few events. How about the "Start and Parks"?" They didn't exist a few years ago. I could go on. But things really are tough all over. NASCAR is doing a very good job, but the sponsors are not beating the door down like they were say 5 years ago.

Alan
 
George,

I would argue one point, not all those hoods are painted. Roush has a couple of teams that are not fully funded for the year. Hendrick is sponsoring an RCR car for a few events. How about the "Start and Parks"?" They didn't exist a few years ago. I could go on. But things really are tough all over. NASCAR is doing a very good job, but the sponsors are not beating the door down like they were say 5 years ago.

Alan
That is also the way I see it,Alan.
 
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