This is not meant to be a dig on anyone, it's just something I've wondered. Can any of these teams really make a profit racing, besides Force maybe? I mean when it comes down to it, and especially since Don seems to always emphasize that it's a business for the most part, is there really anything left at the end of the year so that a team owner doesn't have to dig into their own pocket? I know all the jokes about making a small fortune in racing, by starting off with a big one, etc. etc., and I find the idea of actually making "a profit" at racing very funny, but are sponsors really putting that much into these teams? Winnings don't seem to really make much of a dent. NHRA gets a good chunk of merchandising. It just seems like if this is a business then a person would have to be severely lacking in business sense to ever get involved.LOL
Is drag racing a business? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
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Nitro Member
I can't give you any "real world" figures but here is how I look at it.....
Don Schumacher didn't get to where he is today by being in a business that LOSES money every year! He's a much better business man than that!
Or
Look at John Force......
John started with nothing, was never in another business that made money, (Like Don Schumacher is) And was still able to become a millionaire!
Does that mean EVERYONE makes money in drag racing? Absolutely not!
Don Schumacher didn't get to where he is today by being in a business that LOSES money every year! He's a much better business man than that!
Or
Look at John Force......
John started with nothing, was never in another business that made money, (Like Don Schumacher is) And was still able to become a millionaire!
Does that mean EVERYONE makes money in drag racing? Absolutely not!
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Buddy
Nitro Member
There are risks in every market... I really have no idea how much each team makes/losses a year, but I believe the higher funded teams are making profit... These teams are the Schumachers and Forces... The Kalittas may be making profit too... It takes a quality sponsor to make quality cars last... Schumacher doesn't need racing to make a living though, his batteries are sold at least all over the nation (and probably beyond there too)... Kalitta has his air business... The only one who's sole income that comes from racing is Force (I think)... It doesn't hurt to be financially stable before you risk money chasing the sport...
CJ Curtsinger
CJ Curtsinger
Nitrohelper
Nitro Member
In the old days , how about Snake, Garlits, Shirley , McEwen, Beatle ,Warren, Glidden ,etc
This is only my opinion, the jump from Lucas Series to the Powerade Series is the jump from amateur to professional. The jump from racing for "fun" to racing for endorsements, sponsorship becomes a business. (There is the caveat that there are some very successful racers in the "super" categories making a living at racing. They have made it a business). For actors, the jump from the neighborhood plays to going to Chicago, New York or Hollywood. Wether they make money at it or not, it's the jump. MHO.
Lee
Nitroclovers
Lee
Nitroclovers
merc49
Nitro Member
Check in with some of the sportsman guys. Some of them make a living drag racing, week in, week out. I think the Biondo's fall under that category, so i've heard. Seems there has to be bunches of Sportsmen teams that couldn't keep doing it if they weren't making it at least pay for itself.
jpee
Nitro Member
I agree... If I could drive like Peter, I might "Try" to see how I'd do in the big $$ bracket races...
Buddy
Nitro Member
Welcome to the "new" days... People used to be able to weld things with hangers... Comparisons from then to now are almost black to white... And in a few years it will be different IMO... I think given time more money will come it...
As for the sportsman guys... I think Payne, Newberry, Manzo, Reichert, Rampy, Erks and a few others may make a profit...
CJ Curtsinger
The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
Well . . . I can guarantee you that you aren't gonna get a copy of anyone's P&L !
Yes, there are a lot of Sportsman who make a very good living racing at NHRA races (mostly because of contingencies) or bracket racing. And they probably enjoy it!
Pro team owners - all under constant pressure to run on OPM (Other People's Money). Some who ocasionally sell a battery charger or fly some freight somewhere may feel a little less pressure -
Most of those owners undergo constant stress because they LOVE DRAG RACING. Some are very adept at obtaining sponsorship. Others are hugely successful business people who run mostly on their own ticket (and may need to belong to Jay Leno's "More money than sense club"!).
Whether they run on OPM or out of pocket, we all should be damn glad they're still out there! JMO
Yes, there are a lot of Sportsman who make a very good living racing at NHRA races (mostly because of contingencies) or bracket racing. And they probably enjoy it!
Pro team owners - all under constant pressure to run on OPM (Other People's Money). Some who ocasionally sell a battery charger or fly some freight somewhere may feel a little less pressure -
Most of those owners undergo constant stress because they LOVE DRAG RACING. Some are very adept at obtaining sponsorship. Others are hugely successful business people who run mostly on their own ticket (and may need to belong to Jay Leno's "More money than sense club"!).
Whether they run on OPM or out of pocket, we all should be damn glad they're still out there! JMO
I don't think there's a team out there that's turning a profit! Crew and Driver salaries are factored into sponsorship budgets. Winning $40,000 for an event and $400,000 for winning the Championship doesn't even come close to what these teams Kill over a weekend! I venture to guess everytime you see a Castrol car go down the track your looking at $50,000!
Jenn
Nitro Member
There is an old saying "To make a small fortune in Drag racing, start with a large one".
It's a business but sometimes you get too much into the business mindset and that tkes away from the enjoyment. If I'm not having fun working at any place (not enjoying my work and the job that I do), it's time for me to move on. When I stop having fun working with the race team, I'm done.
Some of the drivers I've seen, and Force being one of them, he used to have a lot of heart doing what he did and a lot of fans appreciated him for it. Then when his interviews started to becoming a long drivel of sponsors, it really seemed like his heart wasn't in it. He himself even admited that he'd lost heart, and now I think he's gettin' it back.
It's a business but sometimes you get too much into the business mindset and that tkes away from the enjoyment. If I'm not having fun working at any place (not enjoying my work and the job that I do), it's time for me to move on. When I stop having fun working with the race team, I'm done.
Some of the drivers I've seen, and Force being one of them, he used to have a lot of heart doing what he did and a lot of fans appreciated him for it. Then when his interviews started to becoming a long drivel of sponsors, it really seemed like his heart wasn't in it. He himself even admited that he'd lost heart, and now I think he's gettin' it back.
The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
I don't think there's a team out there that's turning a profit! Crew and Driver salaries are factored into sponsorship budgets. Winning $40,000 for an event and $400,000 for winning the Championship doesn't even come close to what these teams Kill over a weekend! I venture to guess everytime you see a Castrol car go down the track your looking at $50,000!
Joe - Let's see . . . 23 races, average 6 rounds per race x $50,000 = $6,900,000 per car! I was going to tell you are nuts, then i started thinking about this.
Two huge shops, five crew chiefs, enough CNC equipment to manufacture your own stuff, researching a new engine, six transporters, fuel, insurance and possibly 100 employees. Quickly becomes obvious that the widely reported $2.5 million budget for a contending car might only cover what it costs for getting the crew to the track, lodging and getting the car down the track at a race. You might be high, but I think you could be close - scary!
scubasteve
Nitro Member
i know some big time sportsman racers , believe me its not cheap having 3-5 cars etc etc . its not 4 nitro cars but its very $$$$$. on the subject congrats to the folks ( general and nick ) for making final at stanton 50000 , splitting it ,25000 pc win or lose. thats not chicken feed, the sportsman racers make lots of deals with each other etc etc . most people dont have a clue!! the celebrations nightly in sportsman pits can become legendary , not mentioning any names , like shultz said " i know nothinggg" .
"Dr. Dirt"
Nitro Member
It's profitable if your sponsorship deal is sufficient to be paying your bills/expenses/etc. and you can call winnings/contingencies/payouts gravy on the top. Don't believe for a minute that every pro team is somehow running this out of their own pocket for fun and allowing prime sponsorships on their cars for fun money. Did you hear Hot Rod Fuller today reminding Caterpillar (the parent company) that they are He w/Powers have #1 car on the planet and that they could team up for exposure beyond their wildest dreams? That was more valuable than a board room presentation.
Now, for some of us, it's a write-off on an already successful business. Conrad Kalitta, comes to mind. In our case, stickers on our family's cars simply refer to the family business and I write off advertising expenses like never before. It's vital for us to track sales/success for the Feds when they come calling, which we do to demonstrate the success of such advertising expenses. There's a need for fiscal responsibility with anything. I quite frankly don't care if I ever win payout money since it's not our focus. If it were, you wouldn't be able to see the paint on our cars for all the contingency stickers where it's obvious other racers seem to be focusing their attention.
Now, for some of us, it's a write-off on an already successful business. Conrad Kalitta, comes to mind. In our case, stickers on our family's cars simply refer to the family business and I write off advertising expenses like never before. It's vital for us to track sales/success for the Feds when they come calling, which we do to demonstrate the success of such advertising expenses. There's a need for fiscal responsibility with anything. I quite frankly don't care if I ever win payout money since it's not our focus. If it were, you wouldn't be able to see the paint on our cars for all the contingency stickers where it's obvious other racers seem to be focusing their attention.
Jim, back in 1992-93 I knew a Crew member for John Force pretty good. I'd see him at every race I attended chatting about this and that. He was #4 on the JFR Totempole back then and he Told me he was making $65,000 a year. I knew that because he kept trying to get me to join a Pitcrew since I went to so many races, and I didn't think any of these guys made much $$$ unless they were a crewchief. $65K a year seemed pretty stout back in '92, made me realize just how much a competitive team must cost when you factor a crew of 8-10 per car! Not to mention what the Crewchiefs are pulling in...
I met a crewguy for a Big Hitter Comp/Superstock team at Indy 2-3 years back. I was Stunned at what his Owner/driver boss was Spending to run 12 Natls. and 5-6 Div. races a year! This guy was one of 2 Full-time employees who drive the Rigs to the track, set up etc... When he told me they spend $65-75,000 on Motors I went DOH!!!!!!
Doc hit the nail on the head. It's all about sponsorship dollars. It's very simple math. You could not win enough races to get back the 2-3 million that needs to be spent chasing the championship. The difference is 3rd party dollars or sponsorship. The big teams are profitable, but I would bet even Kalitta's teams don't make a true profit, Connie just loves to race and has the net worth to do it big. Do you think Jim Head's turning a profit? This is actually a conversation that has been rehashed on many a thread. Because it is so hard to land a deal big enough to do it right, it's hard to attract new owners to invest in setting up a team. Look at Powers. He's made the investment, but he's having to continue to spend his own money to keep going, at least for Fuller's car.
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