Information about towing laws I learned through personal experience (1 Viewer)

rocketman

Nitro Member
Information about towing laws which I learned through personal experience

There has been a big debate here and other sites on towing laws and whether you need a CDL to drive a pickup and trailer combination. The laws are very inconsistent but I'm sharing what I learned (the hard way) for the benefit of the racers who go to this site, especially those towing a mid size or larger trailer. Go to Rich Bailey Home Page to learn more.
 
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When viewing the picture of your rig, I see a commercial vehicle that appears to exceed the weight limits required for a CDL. It also looks like a vehicle going somewhere to earn an income. Nothing wrong with either.

It is much simpler and less expensive in the long run to learn the rules and make sure you are complying with them. If you do not have the proper license or plates for your state, how good do you think your insurance is going to be when the unspeakable happens while in route to somewhere?
 
Virgil, I agree with you and I am working on getting into compliance. The reason I never got a CDL before was that I had talked to DMV and they said that weight limit to having to get a CDL is 26000 lbs. We weighed the combination and were under that. What I learned from them was wrong or I misunderstood not knowing that there was a curb weight and GVWR. It's not what the truck and trailer weighed it's what it's rated to weigh. That is why I posted that story so others are aware of the law and where they currently are. A lot of guys need truck plates and don't even know it.
 
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Rich, I have a F350 and in the State of Kansas you have to license the truck according to weight, like 12M OR 16M depending on what weight you're towing.
Now are you talking about a different tag, what your calling a T-TAG OR TRUCK TAG, I'm assuming all states license trucks as Trucks not pass vehicle.
 
In oregon it's a one law fits all as the T plate for a Peterbuilt are the same as Chevy Duramax but the fee does depend on the weight of your truck and trailer combination. My cost will be close to 500.00 a year. In additon, if it weighs over 26,000 GVW then you have to also pay the weight mileage tax too.

So because I'm commercial, it's better to have the smallest lightest trailer possible, yet if you have a big stacker motorhome combo that weighs twice as much with two cars in it, you're good to go. I have a friend that has a Kenworth truck and a semi trailer and it's classified as a motorhome. His rig is not even close to a motorhome. Just my opinion by the laws really need to be cleaned up.
 
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Many times those "motorhomes" are up to the interpretation of the DOT officer at the scale house. I have a customer who used to be a nationally touring late model dirt racer and he has one of those motorhomes that looks like a semi tractor with a stacker trailer. I asked him one day if he had ever had any problems with the motorhome deal and he told me a couple of stories about being dragged back to the scales---once in the middle of the night in our home state. According to the DOT guy who issued us our DOT number, these are acutally FEDERAL laws that are inforced by the states. And if you are ATTEMPTING to make a profit, you are commercial.
 
welcome 2 the real world of DOT and truckin, it has a lot 2 do with the officer,, as u guys no they r some real dicks out there, gonna get worse i read an article were the obama gang and his DOT girl is trying to put all they can under the new CSA rules bull****, give ur soul to god cause ur ass is the
governments :mad:

N Bama Rady 4 a New Revolution
 
Local enforcement and getting in compliance

I recently went the route of bringing myself into compliance after a customer who owns a concrete company came to me to have DOT number decals made for all of his trucks. He had been stopped by the Brighton Police Department for not having a DOT number.

When having my new-entrant inspection completed by a Colorado State Trooper he said that the Chief of the Colorado State Patrol had instructed his employees to use discretion when pulling over apparent racers for not complying with federal law. Even though we technically fit the description of engaging in commerce (we COULD win money at a race and our rigs are weight rated high enough) he felt it was not necessary to focus on this area. He did point out that it did not prevent Roscoe P Coltrane from pulling you over or another state not having the same approach.

Take note that not everyone who has to have a DOT number has to have a CDL. I don't have to have a CDL because my vehicle Gross Combined Weight Rating is less than 26001 pounds ( Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration ) but I do have to have a DOT number because I am engaging in commerce on a roadway in a vehicle with a GCWR of greater than 10,000 pounds ( Colorado State Patrol - Frequently Asked Questions )
Not every state has the same requirements for DOT numbers and CDLs so a good place to start is What is a USDOT Number? - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

I do not have to fill out a logbook if I am within 150 miles of my registered address but if I exceed that then the logbook must be filled out. I also have to have a DOT physical since I travel across state lines.

The total cost for me to obtain a DOT number (and make the decals), get a physical (at which time I had my NHRA license paperwork filled out also), register with the Unified Carrier Registration, have my truck and trailer inspected and buy a logbook amounts to an average of less than $100 per year and a couple hours worth of work.

I rolled through a weigh station a couple of weeks ago, added 45 seconds to my trip and did not have to worry about the long arm of the law.

The trooper who did my inspection was invaluable and I would recommend visiting with a local trooper before he decides to visit you.
 
Many times those "motorhomes" are up to the interpretation of the DOT officer at the scale house. I have a customer who used to be a nationally touring late model dirt racer and he has one of those motorhomes that looks like a semi tractor with a stacker trailer. I asked him one day if he had ever had any problems with the motorhome deal and he told me a couple of stories about being dragged back to the scales---once in the middle of the night in our home state. According to the DOT guy who issued us our DOT number, these are acutally FEDERAL laws that are inforced by the states. And if you are ATTEMPTING to make a profit, you are commercial.

A Nebraska Trooper standing on the running board of the truck told my boss one time that it's really hard to read the "Recreational Vehicle" on the license plate when the truck rolls by at 70 mph at ten o'clock at night.
 
Unfortunately, there are many lessons to learn in this area and two people staged up to run the same race may have different rules that apply to them. It sounds and looks like Rich is running Top Dragster for a profit ... so the CDL, DOT registration, annual physical, hours limitations, etc. apply to him.

We could be lined up on the other side of the Christmas tree and be running the roads 100% legal with none of that.

General applicability. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The above link is the section of the federal code that delineates the general applicability of these rules. If you'll scroll down the 390.3(f)(3) you'll note the exemption for "the occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise."

Follow this link to Q&A 21:

Interpretation for 390.3: - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

and you'll see why everyone is not engaged in commerce, but some are...

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the ‘‘occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise’’ apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.



In Texas the common person carries a Class C license. That gives you the right to drive a vehicle under 26,000lbs for personal reasons and tow a trailer registered for under 10,000 lbs (it could be capable of hauling more, but it’s registered weight and ACTUAL weight must be less). People who drive RV’s generally have to carry a Class B license, that allows you to drive a personal vehicle weighing over 26,000 lbs. Then there is the Class A Exempt license that I carry … personal vehicle over 26,000lbs, trailer over 10,000 lbs.
My rig is 91 feet long and weighs 63,000 lbs. We generally put about 15k miles a year on it racing.

My insurance company issues me a $10,000 bond for $50 every year (Superheavy or Oversize Permit Bond, Form MCD-439) and I maintain an account with the State of Texas where I can go online and buy permits for being overlength.

Texas DOT cooperates with many other state DOTs (WASHTO regional cooperation) allowing permits to be bought online through one account. Or the people at Custom Permits can take care of you for stuff like that permit you want to have before entering Nevada!

My Renegade/Freightliner RV and liftgate stacker trailer are all white. My racecars are sponsored by nobody other than me and driven by my wife. We do not consider racing a business (couldn’t think of a worse business to engage in) and our tax returns reflect our winnings as a hobby.

I’m not saying that I’ll win every roadway encounter with a DOT officer (I have so far), but I’ll win in court every time. I'll readily admit I still get nervous going through those whole vehicle scanners on either side of El Paso when I'm driving the rig to Las Vegas. When the guy comes up to your window and says "is that a Lab laying on your bed in the back" you sorta feel like you have an afterglow for the next few hours!

If you do get a CDL, be very careful. A different set of laws apply to every CDL holder regardless of whether they are driving a big rig or their personal Toyota Corolla. The most popular difference (varies slightly by state) is a .04 BAC, instead of .08, for a DUI ...
 
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Tony,, one note on the 150 mile radius as i have a few drivers that fall under
the 150 ,,, the local pokies here make us fill out a 7 day time record book which also includes a pre-trip inspection part but a gain u may get an officer who has had a good day :eek: but the boys in CA are n a different world
and play by their own rules,,they have big hard owns for the rich guys and their big toys

gk
 
I believe all pickups in Calif must be registered commercial. Mine is. Years ago I tried to argue it, and DMV told me that if I registered it as a personal vehicle, I could never carry anything in the bed.

They said if I was stopped on the way home from the store and there were groceries in the back I could be cited.
 
......If you do get a CDL, be very careful. A different set of laws apply to every CDL holder regardless of whether they are driving a big rig or their personal Toyota Corolla. The most popular difference (varies slightly by state) is a .04 BAC, instead of .08, for a DUI ...

Everyone loves to mention this when talking about having a commercial license..... I can't speak for every state, but this is NOT true here in Minnesota. As a commercial license holder, the legal blood alcohol limit is .04 in a commercial vehicle, and .08 in your personal vehicle.

Read it for yourself. Scroll down to page 10 and read the section titled "Commercial Vehicle Driving"
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/dwiover.pdf

The best way to be sure you're legal..... just don't drink and drive! ;)
 
I believe all pickups in Calif must be registered commercial. Mine is. Years ago I tried to argue it, and DMV told me that if I registered it as a personal vehicle, I could never carry anything in the bed.

They said if I was stopped on the way home from the store and there were groceries in the back I could be cited.

That's right... back in the days of odd-even gas rationing I used to get a rash of s**t pulling into the gas lines on any day with my semi-customized one-ton van (showing my age here). That's not a commercial vehicle! I would point out to them... see that commercial plate, yes it is. Then I asked them if they would like to pay the licensing fees that come with that plate. Argument over.
 
Same thing here in Oregon on the alcohol deal. You blow 4.0 and your done. I'm not a big drinker so I'm ok with that.
 
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I believe all pickups in Calif must be registered commercial. Mine is. Years ago I tried to argue it, and DMV told me that if I registered it as a personal vehicle, I could never carry anything in the bed.

They said if I was stopped on the way home from the store and there were groceries in the back I could be cited.

Jay, It my understanding that as long as you have a camper or even a shell on you pick up, it's not a commercial vehicle it's a recreational vehicle. Take it off and you got problems.
 
I passed the written test part of my CDL and I take the driving test next week. If anyone needs to get their CDL the good news is there are free online practice CDL tests you can take which is how I learned after going through the manual a couple of times. If it wasn't for the online test I would have failed. I think anyone hauling a long heavy trailer should at least have to take the general knowledge test. There is a lot I didn't know and I'm now a safer driver because of it.
 
..........I think anyone hauling a long heavy trailer should at least have to take the general knowledge test. There is a lot I didn't know and I'm now a safer driver because of it.

A co-worker is a former over the road truck driver. He still maintains his CDL even though he really doesn't need to. He now bracket races a sweet '64 Plymouth Satellite that he hauls in an enclosed trailer using a camper based on a 1 ton dually chassis. He's of the opinion that anyone towing more than a light single axle trailer should be required to pass a written & driving test to prove they're capable of handling it.
 
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