Impact & SFI

[Ugly one]

Terry,
I'll have the fork & crow waitng for you.
I also have a new Toyota parked on dry land in Florida, they're both for sell any takers.

 

[rocketman]

I was getting my chassis recertfied today and was told by the NHRA official that you can still use your Impact safety equipment as long as it has not expired yet. So if you have an Impact helmet like I have you can still use it until it has expired after that it's junk.

 

[big guy]

I was told today by an NHRA official that you can still use your Impact safety equipment as long as it has not expired yet. So if you have an Impact helmet like I have you can still use it until it has expired after that it's junk.

The helmets are snell rated, not sfi.What did NHRA say about the suits ,gloves,and boots?

 

[rocketman]

The helmets are snell rated, not sfi.What did NHRA say about the suits ,gloves,and boots?

I only have the helmet but it was my understanding he was talking about everything. Someone said that over the track's loud speaker the announcer said that you can not use their stuff any more, period. But I believe the official since he's a NHRA tech person.

Good point on the snell helmets. I'm going to bet there will be confusion and arguments in the tech line this year.

 

[.]

Impact's statement:

Impact! Racing Products

 

[Dragracer]

This issue between IMPACT and SFI has nothing to do with the quality or safety of the products produced by IMPACT. It has to do with a dispute with SFI over the tags that IMPACT used.
All IMPACT items HAVE been approved by SFI by verification of test reports from recognized SFI test laboratories. This product testing requirement comes directly from SFI, so it cannot be disputed. SFI has not stated that the IMPACT producted sold do not meet this requirement

No where in SFI's certification process does it state that once a product is approved by SFI that the patches MUST be obtained by them and only them.
To go to the extreme that SFI has with IMPACT because they did not use the patches manufactured by SFI's vendor falls into a very grey area legally and will either be resolved in court or between IMPACT & SFI. SFI has put themselves into a position of liability as this has already caused damage to IMPACT's reputation and financially.
SFI has certainly gone out on a limb on this one because if they have to reinstate IMPACT it has the possibility of costing SFI quite a bit of money due to the harm it caused IMPACT.
I stand by my statement that IMPACT will be reinstated. It this has to go through the courts, and hopefully it won't, it won't be done by late April and that will only increase the cost to SFI if they lose, which is likely.

The only question you need to ask yourself is: Did IMPACT sell safety items that did not meet the testing requirements that SFI approved? SFI has never stated that, just that the tags used didn't come from them: BFD

 

[clwill]

The only question you need to ask yourself is: Did IMPACT sell safety items that did not meet the testing requirements that SFI approved?

How the heck is someone supposed to know? They DID sell products that didn't meet those requirements in the past.

The only question I'm asking is, if they're so frigging cheap they're buying labels in Asia, what else are they scrimping on...

 

[Randy]

This issue between IMPACT and SFI has nothing to do with the quality or safety of the products produced by IMPACT. It has to do with a dispute with SFI over the tags that IMPACT used.
All IMPACT items HAVE been approved by SFI by verification of test reports from recognized SFI test laboratories. This product testing requirement comes directly from SFI, so it cannot be disputed. SFI has not stated that the IMPACT producted sold do not meet this requirement

No where in SFI's certification process does it state that once a product is approved by SFI that the patches MUST be obtained by them and only them.
To go to the extreme that SFI has with IMPACT because they did not use the patches manufactured by SFI's vendor falls into a very grey area legally and will either be resolved in court or between IMPACT & SFI. SFI has put themselves into a position of liability as this has already caused damage to IMPACT's reputation and financially.
SFI has certainly gone out on a limb on this one because if they have to reinstate IMPACT it has the possibility of costing SFI quite a bit of money due to the harm it caused IMPACT.
I stand by my statement that IMPACT will be reinstated. It this has to go through the courts, and hopefully it won't, it won't be done by late April and that will only increase the cost to SFI if they lose, which is likely.

The only question you need to ask yourself is: Did IMPACT sell safety items that did not meet the testing requirements that SFI approved? SFI has never stated that, just that the tags used didn't come from them: BFD

You are either an employee of Impact, a troll or Bill has pictures of you in a compromising position.

As an Impact employee:

#1 Should ANYONE trust products that have so called bogus tags put on them? Why would you do that especially since you claim there was no issue with the merchandise (and how would you know that unless you are an employee)? people paid over $2,000 for this stuff.

#2 They have a history of selling stuff that failed testing. Do you want to discuss that with me? We owned the -20 suit that SFI pulled, tested and failed the SFI tests that caused the first decertification.

#3. What was Impact's involvement with the bogus Hans device helmet posts? What was the outcome of the legal action from Hans?

A lot of history here. I know Arnie at SFI very well. I'm sure he had his fleet of lawyers pour over the situation before giving Impact the final farewell. Besides saving a few bucks why would you make your own bogus SFI tags? Someone has some severe mental issues over there.

Can an NHRA Hall of Fame induction be pulled? Just asking.

.

 

[.]

Randy, since you know Arnie could you ask him why SFI certified JFR frames that had hardened tubing when the spec at the time clearly said only normalized tubing was to be used? I know the issue is a few years old now but it does deserve to be answered why they were certifying frames that didn't meet spec.

 

[Chi-Town Brown]

This issue between IMPACT and SFI has nothing to do with the quality or safety of the products produced by IMPACT. It has to do with a dispute with SFI over the tags that IMPACT used.
All IMPACT items HAVE been approved by SFI by verification of test reports from recognized SFI test laboratories. This product testing requirement comes directly from SFI, so it cannot be disputed. SFI has not stated that the IMPACT producted sold do not meet this requirement

No where in SFI's certification process does it state that once a product is approved by SFI that the patches MUST be obtained by them and only them.
To go to the extreme that SFI has with IMPACT because they did not use the patches manufactured by SFI's vendor falls into a very grey area legally and will either be resolved in court or between IMPACT & SFI. SFI has put themselves into a position of liability as this has already caused damage to IMPACT's reputation and financially.
SFI has certainly gone out on a limb on this one because if they have to reinstate IMPACT it has the possibility of costing SFI quite a bit of money due to the harm it caused IMPACT.
I stand by my statement that IMPACT will be reinstated. It this has to go through the courts, and hopefully it won't, it won't be done by late April and that will only increase the cost to SFI if they lose, which is likely.

The only question you need to ask yourself is: Did IMPACT sell safety items that did not meet the testing requirements that SFI approved? SFI has never stated that, just that the tags used didn't come from them: BFD

Legally I cannot scan and post what is in an SFI certification compliance document. What I can do is type a few lines taken from it.

"Manufacturers Labels" Labels must be ordered from SFI and affixed to your product when step ## and ## have been accomplished and all requirements are defined in Section ### of the specification. Label orders may be placed with SFI by mail, Telephone, Fax or Email. The labels for the ### program are $#### each

Now you were saying something about nothing in SFI Certification process about labels??????

 

[Dragracer]

Randy, sounds to me like you have a problem with IMPACT or Bill Simpson or both.
If the IMPACT products are possibly inferior as you inferred than why can they still be used until the end of April? If I thought our IMPACT products did not meet standards I would not use them again, even if it meant we would have to sit out a race. Also with NHRA's mantra of 'DEDICATED TO SAFETY' I don't think they would let an inferior item that could make the difference between life & death for a driver be used. They would stop its use immediately. SFI says they decided not to decertify the products immediately in order to minimize the potential hardships to members of the racing community. SFI obviously does not think the IMPACT product is a substandard product or they would stop its use immediately also.

You commented the time to find out is before disaster strikes. I couldn't agree more. Safety has always been most racers #1 priority from way back when I started going out with Frank Cannon in 1959. So why is IMPACT being given until the end of April? Is that to give SFI and IMPACT time to come together to resolve this problem, who knows.

I believe that if SFI has taken this action with IMPACT they believe they have the facts to back up this decertification. I will say that for the life of me I can't understand why IMPACT would do that, sounds pretty dumb to me. If it's against the SFI policy IMPACT should be disciplined, fined or whatever. I agree SFI needs to show they mean what the rules say and are ready to inforce them, but to put someone out of business for a rule infraction like this is a little over the top.
Don't take me wrong. I believe in SFI and believe an organization like them is needed to make and police rules for the betterment of the sport and the safety of the drivers.

I think in the case of IMPACT the fine imposed, and I don't disagree that one should be levied if IMPACT did what they are accused of, is much to harsh for the crime.

Additionaly, don't forget we are all innocent until proven guilty - that's the law of the land.

Question: If IMPACT is cleared of this accusation will the companies who provided suits to racers to replace their IMPACT ones take them back and give the racers a full refund?

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[Nitrohelper]

... why they were certifying frames that didn't meet spec.

They don't certify frames ,NHRA does that , SFI creates specifications that the manufactures agree to follow.

 

[Dragracer]

I think we can probably stop the speculation on this matter. Here is some info from Bob Tasca who was contacted by IMPACT as were other racers. As I thought SFI and IMPACT are working to resolve this issue.


One by one the competitors at zMax Dragway learned of the SFI decision to decertify certain products manufactured by Impact Racing.
Bob Tasca driver of the Motorcraft/Quick Lane Ford Mustang, took a call from the manufacturer concerning their products in his use.

“They called me and told me my suit is safe,” revealed Tasca. “They have an issue with SFI that they are working on with their attorneys and that's the extent of my knowledge. I trust the product. I have used them for years and I have no apprehension at this time that it isn't what they say it is.”

Representatives of Don Schumacher Racing also had a conversation with an Impact Racing representative and opted to not make a comment on the situation at this time.

If the SFI sticks to its decision, it won't matter what assurances Impact supplies to the competitors, those products will no longer be allowed for use in the NHRA as of April 27, 2010.

This issue doesn't specifically affect the NHRA.

Phone conversations took place throughout the day between NASCAR and the NHRA, the sanctioning bodies with the most competitors affected by the SFI move.

Graham Light, NHRA Vice President of Operations, addressed the issue during a delay caused by a light rain.

“Basically, our rulebook requires certain products to be SFI certified,” said Light. “Which means as long as SFI is certifying those products we will accept them. If they are not certifying them, then they are not acceptable.”

Hundreds, possibly thousands of drivers in all forms of motorsports may well be placing orders for new uniforms and other safety equipment on the decertification list if an agreement between the SFI and Impact Racing isn't worked out within the next 30 days.

I think we can speculate all we want but all any of us are doing is jumping to conclusions that may or may not be correct.

We should just wait and see what happens. I certainly wouldn't want to put out the money for new safety gear and then find out that the IMPACT matter has been resolved and IMPACT is recertified.






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[rocketman]

So why would uniforms be effected when they are not certified?

 

[rocketman]

I hope they get this worked out as a lot of racers simply can't afford to buy another 2000 plus of racing equipment!

 

[clwill]

This is a sport where people can and have been killed. To find that a company is cutting corners on the very safety gear that participants rely on to keep them alive is more than a little disturbing. Even if Impact manages to argue this out in court and come out with a win, I will never purchase products from this company. With a number of quality alternatives, I can't imagine why anyone would.

 

[.]

They don't certify frames ,NHRA does that , SFI creates specifications that the manufactures agree to follow.

OK, wrong wording. Why did SFI say they met spec when they clearly didn't?

 

[rocketman]

This is a sport where people can and have been killed. To find that a company is cutting corners on the very safety gear that participants rely on to keep them alive is more than a little disturbing. Even if Impact manages to argue this out in court and come out with a win, I will never purchase products from this company. With a number of quality alternatives, I can't imagine why anyone would.

You are correct and I may owe my life and or mobility to safety equipment I had on when I hit the wall at 140 MPH. Had I not wore my Hans who knows what might have happened. But if this is just about labeling I don't see why the equipment can't still be used but we'll abide by what ever decision is made.

 

[Chi-Town Brown]

OK, wrong wording. Why did SFI say they met spec when they clearly didn't?

SFI Didn't say they met spec. McKinney did and McKinney has the clearance from SFI to say it does. McKinney didn't skimp on the tube diameter or thickness nor any of the mandated locations. McKinney bought all his tags from SFI. Everything’s good.. NHRA does not certify frames either. They just look at the tag that says it has been that was put on by the guy who made it who's certified to do so because SFI says so. Now if he bought the tags from Wap Pow and not SFI he technically isn't certified no matter how well it was built. Clear as Mud!!!

 

[.]

SFI Didn't say they met spec. McKinney did and McKinney has the clearance from SFI to say it does. McKinney didn't skimp on the tube diameter or thickness nor any of the mandated locations. McKinney bought all his tags from SFI. Everything’s good.. NHRA does not certify frames either. They just look at the tag that says it has been that was put on by the guy who made it who's certified to do so because SFI says so. Now if he bought the tags from Wap Pow and not SFI he technically isn't certified no matter how well it was built. Clear as Mud!!!

McKinney used tubing that was not allowed according to the rulebook at the time. The rulebook clearly spelled out normalized (non-hardened) tubing. McKinney used hardened tubing in the lower rails of the JFR frames. Why was this allowed? The frames clearly did not meet the specs in the rulebook, which means they were illegal for competition, yet they were allowed to run. Who, then, is to blame for allowing illegal frames to be used in competition?