If Cruz beats J Force in round 2 (1 Viewer)

[.]

then this is all a non issue, and no one would be accused of cheating, and Hight still would have had to beat Ashley to make the Countdown the way I add it up.

Cruz could have been the one racing Hight, in the SF (for the countdown spot) but he couldn't get around Force.

He left his fate in the hands of others, and let his brother stand up for him. He didn't get cheated. He didn't perform.

 

[Treeshaker]

then this is all a non issue, and no one would be accused of cheating, and Hight still would have had to beat Ashley to make the Countdown the way I add it up.

Cruz could have been the one racing Hight, in the SF (for the countdown spot) but he couldn't get around Force.

He left his fate in the hands of others, and let his brother stand up for him. He didn't get cheated. He didn't perform.

Exactly. If Cruz would have taken care of business against John, and then beaten Robert he would be in the countdown. Or if Tony wasn't thinking so much of himself in Brainerd, he could have helped his "team" have a second car in the countdown.

Tony seems to be still looking for John to take care of him when he screws up by making bad business decisions.

 

[John Farce Racing]

then this is all a non issue, and no one would be accused of cheating, and Hight still would have had to beat Ashley to make the Countdown the way I add it up.

Cruz could have been the one racing Hight, in the SF (for the countdown spot) but he couldn't get around Force.

He left his fate in the hands of others, and let his brother stand up for him. He didn't get cheated. He didn't perform.

Or, if Hight had taken care of business in the prior 17 races, he wouldn't have had to have daddy in law dive like a duck for him.

 

[shane]

Or, if Hight had taken care of business in the prior 17 races, he wouldn't have had to have daddy in law dive like a duck for him.

Exactly......

Virgil are you saying you would purposely break the rules too?

 

[Treeshaker]

Unless I've missed it, I don't believe any one, I repeat, any one, has been cited for breaking any rules. Unless some one has some proof, it is just a lot of assumptions on the part of others.

If I was in the position of the Pedregons, Jeg or John, I would use whatever tools were available to me to create the outcome needed for the long term benefit of my team. A couple of the above used their tools to their benefit, and a couple didn't. I thought that the name of all games was to win with the tools you have. Why spend the money and work all year only to fail when it is within your ability to have the outcome you desire?

 

[Rajunz]

I watched the second round again last night, and within the first second of the run Cruz lit the tires, then drove it out of the groove right towards the wall.................was that intentional or do these things really happen???

 

[Joker]

Unless I've missed it, I don't believe any one, I repeat, any one, has been cited for breaking any rules. Unless some one has some proof, it is just a lot of assumptions on the part of others.

If I was in the position of the Pedregons, Jeg or John, I would use whatever tools were available to me to create the outcome needed for the long term benefit of my team. A couple of the above used their tools to their benefit, and a couple didn't. I thought that the name of all games was to win with the tools you have. Why spend the money and work all year only to fail when it is within your ability to have the outcome you desire?

Virgil, I applaud you for having the balls to say it. Everyone else thinks the same, and would do the same but wont admit it. Racing is a business. Its ran like a business. You do everything in your power to win, if not, then you shouldnt be doing it.

 

[sdwarf36]

Exactly. If Cruz would have taken care of business against John, and then beaten Robert he would be in the countdown. Or if Tony wasn't thinking so much of himself in Brainerd, he could have helped his "team" have a second car in the countdown.

Tony seems to be still looking for John to take care of him when he screws up by making bad business decisions.

I was thinkin'...maybe Tony wasn't being so holy at Brainerd--maybe the problem of the hour at their team made it more importiant to win with the
Quaker state/Nitrofish will race for food car?

 

[mike]

Unless I've missed it, I don't believe any one, I repeat, any one, has been cited for breaking any rules. Unless some one has some proof, it is just a lot of assumptions on the part of others.

If I was in the position of the Pedregons, Jeg or John, I would use whatever tools were available to me to create the outcome needed for the long term benefit of my team. A couple of the above used their tools to their benefit, and a couple didn't. I thought that the name of all games was to win with the tools you have. Why spend the money and work all year only to fail when it is within your ability to have the outcome you desire?

if one could give a standing ovation from a keyboard this would be the place for it...wonderfully stated sir!

 

[John Farce Racing]

Unless I've missed it, I don't believe any one, I repeat, any one, has been cited for breaking any rules. Unless some one has some proof, it is just a lot of assumptions on the part of others.

If I was in the position of the Pedregons, Jeg or John, I would use whatever tools were available to me to create the outcome needed for the long term benefit of my team. A couple of the above used their tools to their benefit, and a couple didn't. I thought that the name of all games was to win with the tools you have. Why spend the money and work all year only to fail when it is within your ability to have the outcome you desire?

Cmon Virgil, you are smarter than that. Of course no one was cited for breaking the rules. I was going 70 in a 55MPH zone yesterday and didn't get cited. It doesn't mean I didn't do it. It's clear that for many on this board that money trumps everything, including integrity. Just what "tools" are you talking about Virgil? If you mean sharing data, parts, crewmembers, crewchiefs Etc, I agree. If you mean predetermining the outcome of a race, I completely disagree. The rule is clear, if unenforcable. I wonder if they feel the same way about the Enron using creative accounting "tools" to increase their stock price. It even worked for several years, that seems "long term" to me. But just like Enron, the chickens will come home to roost eventually.
Virgil, was Mike Dunn wrong? I guess that's just a rhetorical question, because I know you will be PC and not answer.

 

[Treeshaker]

Cmon Virgil, you are smarter than that. Of course no one was cited for breaking the rules. I was going 70 in a 55MPH zone yesterday and didn't get cited. It doesn't mean I didn't do it. It's clear that for many on this board that money trumps everything, including integrity. Just what "tools" are you talking about Virgil? If you mean sharing data, parts, crewmembers, crewchiefs Etc, I agree. If you mean predetermining the outcome of a race, I completely disagree. The rule is clear, if unenforcable. I wonder if they feel the same way about the Enron using creative accounting "tools" to increase their stock price. It even worked for several years, that seems "long term" to me. But just like Enron, the chickens will come home to roost eventually.
Virgil, was Mike Dunn wrong? I guess that's just a rhetorical question, because I know you will be PC and not answer.

I am smart enough to realize that in the USA you are innocent until proven guilty. You on the other hand broke a rule, have confessed in writing and are guilty of that infraction. Investors in Enron and some of the Ponzi schemes are just as responsible as the ones running them. Their greed for the quick buck led them to believe the unreal promises.

Use all the tools at your disposal. If you don't want races between team cars to be able to affect the outcome of an event, beat them on the track when you have the opportunity. When they beat you, walk away and figure out how you can create better tools for your team to have a better outcome for your team.

In my opinion based upon my assumptions, which could be wrong because of no proof, Mike was following instructions from a director or producer, just the same as the field reporters that kept asking the same questions until they got the incinerary answers they were instructed to get, just the same as the camera persons that were directed to point their cameras in certain places.

 

[Bullard Anderson]

The title of the thread is a good one. If Cruz beats John Force in round 2?
The followup: Then John Force doesn't have to steer the car to the right, out of the groove, smoke the tires, and purposely give an 11th place car a slot in the Countdown.

 

[mw6789]

Unless I've missed it, I don't believe any one, I repeat, any one, has been cited for breaking any rules. Unless some one has some proof, it is just a lot of assumptions on the part of others.

If I was in the position of the Pedregons, Jeg or John, I would use whatever tools were available to me to create the outcome needed for the long term benefit of my team. A couple of the above used their tools to their benefit, and a couple didn't. I thought that the name of all games was to win with the tools you have. Why spend the money and work all year only to fail when it is within your ability to have the outcome you desire?

Thank you Mr Hartman--I have to admire an honest man!!!!!!!!!

 

[shane]

Virgil, thank you very much for your honest answer... Most of us can speculate what we may do but it is always better to hear from a current/former team owner...

Nothing further from me. lol

 

[John Farce Racing]

I am smart enough to realize that in the USA you are innocent until proven guilty. You on the other hand broke a rule, have confessed in writing and are guilty of that infraction. Investors in Enron and some of the Ponzi schemes are just as responsible as the ones running them. Their greed for the quick buck led them to believe the unreal promises.

Use all the tools at your disposal. If you don't want races between team cars to be able to affect the outcome of an event, beat them on the track when you have the opportunity. When they beat you, walk away and figure out how you can create better tools for your team to have a better outcome for your team.

In my opinion based upon my assumptions, which could be wrong because of no proof, Mike was following instructions from a director or producer, just the same as the field reporters that kept asking the same questions until they got the incinerary answers they were instructed to get, just the same as the camera persons that were directed to point their cameras in certain places.

Well Virgil, I give you credit for responding to the Mike Dunn question, even if you tap danced around it like Fred Astaire.

As for your response to the Enron question, all I can say is WOW.As an investor, you use the tools available to you, SEC filings like 8-K, 10-Q, income statements, cash flow, Balance sheets, Etc, Etc. By law the CFO is required to provide accurate and timely financial information.So if he doesn't do this and the auditing firm(in this case Arthur Anderson) is also involved in the scam, you believe the investor is "just as responsible"? WOW. The whole stock market revolves around financial statements being true. Do you own ANY stock? Just curious.

You didn't answer my question. Is predetermining a race(cheating, as defined by the rule book)a tool? A simple yes or no will do.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Virgil,
Thanks for your honesty and sense of understanding from the owner's standpoint. You'll never need to answer baited questions because we already know you understand business, teams, and sponsorships which, most of the baiters seem to not understand?

I just love words from the horse's mouth clearing the clouded air.

 

[John Farce Racing]

Virgil,
Thanks for your honesty and sense of understanding from the owner's standpoint. You'll never need to answer baited questions because we already know you understand business, teams, and sponsorships which, most of the baiters seem to not understand?

I just love words from the horse's mouth clearing the clouded air.

Of course he won't answer the question, but it is not a business, team or sponsorship question. It's an ethics question, and it's clear where you stand on the issue.

 

[clwill]

Of course he won't answer the question, but it is not a business, team or sponsorship question. It's an ethics question, and it's clear where you stand on the issue.

Have you ever driven over the speed limit? Told a little white lie? I'm betting yes. Why? Because you get there faster, you avoided an uncomfortable situation or something like that, and you knew you wouldn't get caught. Heck, your "ethics" suck and there aren't millions of dollars on the table...

 

[none]

What would have been interesting would have been if Cruz beat J. Force and then lost to Hight in the third round. In that case I wonder if John would have made Ashley put on the scuba gear for the final.

 

[John Farce Racing]

Have you ever driven over the speed limit? Told a little white lie? I'm betting yes. Why? Because you get there faster, you avoided an uncomfortable situation or something like that, and you knew you wouldn't get caught. Heck, your "ethics" suck and there aren't millions of dollars on the table...

Absolutely I have, didn't you read my other post? And I actually did get a speeding ticket last March going to a job site in Carroll IA. But I didn't lie to the officer and say I wasn't speeding. I said "yeah I was in a hurry". He wrote the ticket($81). And I paid the penalty for my crime. how about you?