Has performance levels stagnated? (1 Viewer)

[Husky]

Have performance levels stagnated?

After looking at some testing numbers and current records it seems that '08 will be a redo of '07,performance wise. While every record is breakable, near perfect conditions and preparation will be required to marginally surpass current milestones.
Do you feel that racing has peaked in regard to performance, w/o rule changes?

 

[john]

Do you feel that racing has peaked in regard to performance, w/o rule changes?

No, there are plenty of mad scientists working on this as we type. The advances will be slower and cost more, thats all.

 

[jimbo]

After looking at some testing numbers and current records it seems that '08 will be a redo of '07,performance wise. While every record is breakable, near perfect conditions and preparation will be required to marginally surpass current milestones.
Do you feel that racing has peaked in regard to performance, w/o rule changes?

My opinion on performance levels is going to be based more on track preparation than finding more horsepower for the fuel cars. Maybe NHRA has determined that they cannot regulate the tuners ability to overcome the various rules - rev limiter, nitro percentage, spec tire and rear gear ratio. Therefor just prepare the track for the level of performance that NHRA is comfortable with.
As far as Pro Stock is concerned, incremental increases will be made, though not as big as in the past.
My thoughts to this is, most of the rule changes have been made on account of safety. This I agree with. I just wish that everyone would work together to overcome these issues that face our sport.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

If you are referring to Nitro testing numbers, you will find that most teams were still testing on 85% as a result of their data accumulated since the last change. The change to 90% will create new advances if they will allow the tracks to prep appropriately however, they are so very afraid of this tire that they may not run a perfectly prepped track until Goodyear comes out with yet, another new tire.

 

[DaveRenk]

Re: Have performance levels stagnated?

After looking at some testing numbers and current records it seems that '08 will be a redo of '07,performance wise. While every record is breakable, near perfect conditions and preparation will be required to marginally surpass current milestones.
Do you feel that racing has peaked in regard to performance, w/o rule changes?

Interesting question! I was thinking about the same thing as it would apply to Pro Stock. Looks like they are running quicker and faster again this year. My question is: How can they do this? In my mind they would have to up the engine rpm to increase power. Another possibility would be that the cars are more aero. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Professor Dave]

Re: Have performance levels stagnated?

How can they do this? In my mind they would have to up the engine rpm to increase power.

They have-they now run over 10 grand-lots of work in the valve train area. we use some of that technology in our current comp car motor-the change in the push rods and rocker arms over the last decade are amazing.

 

[.]

When the NHRA keeps throwing roadblocks in their way I'm surprised the nitro cars run as good as they do now. Imagine if they dropped the mandatory weight increases of the past few years, the rev limiters, the limits on size of the wings, the rear gear ratio rule, limits on blower overdrive, limit on injector height, could run 98%, etc.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

When the NHRA keeps throwing roadblocks in their way I'm surprised the nitro cars run as good as they do now. Imagine if they dropped the mandatory weight increases of the past few years, the rev limiters, the limits on size of the wings, the rear gear ratio rule, limits on blower overdrive, limit on injector height, could run 98%, etc.

There is no tire capable of handling that scenario.

 

[fifty50]

Re: Have performance levels stagnated?

After looking at some testing numbers and current records it seems that '08 will be a redo of '07,performance wise. While every record is breakable, near perfect conditions and preparation will be required to marginally surpass current milestones.
Do you feel that racing has peaked in regard to performance, w/o rule changes?

I've wondered for quite some time when we would get to the point where with all the factors involved that they just couldn't get any more out of these cars. It had to come to this point eventually with the technology and brain power available it had to happen,I just wonder what impact it will have on the popularity of the sport because I truly beleive the final frontiers of this great sport have all been conquered.

 

[Horsepower & Heels]

Where there is a will, there always is a way. We're far from perfect, and we'll continue to see breakthroughs. Whether its from the tuners or the tracks, or the tire mfg., there is always room for improvement.

And besides, they're just one test into the season, and they already have lots of changes to contend with. Its a bit much to expect records this soon in the season. Plus, most teams are in TEST mode, not trying to push the envelope.

 

[Toejam]

As long as NHRA mandates the Rev limiter, I think those classes are froze. PS and the Alky cars still will slowly improve.

 

[d'kid]

Re: Have performance levels stagnated?

I've wondered for quite some time when we would get to the point where with all the factors involved that they just couldn't get any more out of these cars. It had to come to this point eventually with the technology and brain power available it had to happen,I just wonder what impact it will have on the popularity of the sport because I truly beleive the final frontiers of this great sport have all been conquered.

Which we said At 6.99 second floppers, 5.99 second T/F... P/S running better than 9 flat... 230mph in top fuel, 200 in floppers...

Limiting factor is traction & the G-force the human body can take, both pos and neg.... are we there yet? We have the power, getting it to the ground and having a driver that could function at 7 plus G's is the problem.

d'kid

 

[none]

Re: Have performance levels stagnated?

Which we said At 6.99 second floppers, 5.99 second T/F... P/S running better than 9 flat... 230mph in top fuel, 200 in floppers...

Limiting factor is traction & the G-force the human body can take, both pos and neg.... are we there yet? We have the power, getting it to the ground and having a driver that could function at 7 plus G's is the problem.

d'kid

I was thinking the same thing myself, regarding the nay sayers about past performance limits. And the anticipation we had of a new performance mark.

However, I think it will be very unlikely the physical limits you mention will ever be reached, due to the rules limits by the powers that be. The technology and performance could reach the human limit, in time, but the sanctioning bodies and their rules won't let that happen.

 

[stanman]

Re: Have performance levels stagnated?

Interesting question! I was thinking about the same thing as it would apply to Pro Stock. Looks like they are running quicker and faster again this year. My question is: How can they do this? In my mind they would have to up the engine rpm to increase power. Another possibility would be that the cars are more aero. Any thoughts on this?

What we saw in the last three or so years that accounted for improved performance were advances in the ability to spin the engines at higher RPMs. There has been a lot of light shed on valve train component weight and valve spring technology. Much of which proved that previous thinking was erroneous. Valvetrain harmonics are the biggest factor in limiting an engines ability to spin at higher RPMs.

I think the greatest improvements in Pro Stock will come in the chassis... particularly in suspension. If you think about, the basic Pro Stock chassis hasn't changed a whole bunch in the last 15-20 years... front strut, 4-link, anti-roll bar, etc.. But I believe the refinement of this tried and true technology has been undergoing some marked improvements in the last couple of years and will continue to improve over the next couple... leading to better response to tuning changes.

With regards to the fuel cars...

I could care less if they see any major performance improvements! I'd rather see them run the numbers they have been the last couple years, only with more consistency and little to no parts attrition.