Four Wide and Pro Board (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bobby Bennett
- Start date
Tony
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2006
- Messages
- 369
- Age
- 66
- Location
- Tulsa, Oklahoma
4-wide has as much to do with PROFESSIONAL drag racing as PINKS. In my opinion, they are both a sideshow.
I found this interesting.. as quoted from PRO TO NHRA: WE'RE NOT RACING 4-WIDE FOR POINTS ANYMORE
"Our sources have confirmed that PRO cited its objections on the basis of safety, confusion over the format, sponsorship identification and a circus-like atmosphere."
- SAFETY? I'd like to hear more on this one....
- CONFUSION OVER THE FORMAT? Seems they figured it out in time for the finals ok...perhaps they could give it another shot?
- Sponsorship identification... well OK, I can understand this .... TO A POINT.
- A CIRCUS-LIKE ATMOSPHERE??? What, PRO owners don't like clowns???
But the best part is this one right here...
"PRO reportedly informed the NHRA that it is willing to discuss a future event under an all-star or exhibition basis, but has said their membership will not participate in the same kind of event as staged in 2010."
hmmm If the above REASONS are VALID... THEN WHY WOULD THEY ENTERTAIN AN EXHIBITION FORMAT?
- If it's Not SAFE.. WHY DO IT AT ALL?
- IF THERE IS CONFUSION OVER THE FORMAT.... WOULDN'T THIS CREATE A SAFETY ISSUE... SO WHY DO IT AT ALL?..
- IF SPONSORSHIP IDENTIFICATION IS THE ISSUE... DO YOU THINK YOUR SPONSORS (I hate that word) ARE GOING TO WANT YOU TO COMPETE IN THE "EXHIBITION"...which causes CONFUSION about the format...and thus is NOT SAFE.... SO... WHY DO IT AT ALL?
- IF A CIRCUS ATMOSPHERE IS THE PROBLEM and this creates problems with SPONSOR IDENTIFICATION and thus causes the sponsors to JUST SAY NO on this because it causes CONFUSION OVER THE FORMAT...which DIRECTLY LEADS TO A SAFETY CONCERN.... THEN ONCE AGAIIN...
WHY DO IT AT ALL????
Tim........ sorry guy but if 97% of the PRO racers voted to not race this format again I think they must have some damn good reasons for doing so, therefore seeing as how I did not see you racing in one of the pro. categorys at this event excuse me for just disregarding your comments.
nothing personnel.
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2006
- Messages
- 2,457
- Age
- 51
- Location
- Hurricane, Utah
Tim........ sorry guy but if 97% of the PRO racers voted to not race this format again I think they must have some damn good reasons for doing so, therefore seeing as how I did not see you racing in one of the pro. categorys at this event excuse me for just disregarding your comments.
nothing personnel.
nothing personal taken Paul.
....but, for the reasons they gave as to why they voted 97-3 % not to do it as a points race.... don't ya think those are valid enough not to do it at all???
megadeth
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Messages
- 2,172
- Age
- 62
- Location
- California/Australia
Finally! Pro banned together instead being the cooperate team player.
Hopefully this will be the end of the spectacle & circus of 4 wide racing in a points race.
This is not the first time NHRA has gone 4 wide in the past it was an exhibition only race and should remain that way!
Good Job Pro I thought it sucked too!
Hopefully this will be the end of the spectacle & circus of 4 wide racing in a points race.
This is not the first time NHRA has gone 4 wide in the past it was an exhibition only race and should remain that way!
Good Job Pro I thought it sucked too!
The real reason they don't like the format or do not want to run this as a point earning race are these:
1. Look at the results from round one and two, staging, rts and other issues etc. (upsets LBTA)
2. sponsor recognition (or lack of it) Harley would be the first sponsor to speak out against it. there are five or six others as well.
3. Potential for inconsistent racing surface. They have enough issues with two lanes (four makes it twice as difficult) Now I realize that the four lanes were pretty good overall, but the chances of a bad lane or two are too prevalent.
Those are the issues in a nutshell.
The first reason above is easily the main reason.
So having a invitational type event with big money would be THE answer, nothing to risk except the prize money.
PRO would not come out in public and state that as the real issue simply because it diminishes the drivers ability to a certain extent. No driver would want to come out and state it publicly.
Dean Murdoch
SPEEDZONE MAGAZINE ONLINE
1. Look at the results from round one and two, staging, rts and other issues etc. (upsets LBTA)
2. sponsor recognition (or lack of it) Harley would be the first sponsor to speak out against it. there are five or six others as well.
3. Potential for inconsistent racing surface. They have enough issues with two lanes (four makes it twice as difficult) Now I realize that the four lanes were pretty good overall, but the chances of a bad lane or two are too prevalent.
Those are the issues in a nutshell.
The first reason above is easily the main reason.
So having a invitational type event with big money would be THE answer, nothing to risk except the prize money.
PRO would not come out in public and state that as the real issue simply because it diminishes the drivers ability to a certain extent. No driver would want to come out and state it publicly.
Dean Murdoch
SPEEDZONE MAGAZINE ONLINE
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2006
- Messages
- 2,457
- Age
- 51
- Location
- Hurricane, Utah
good answer Dean....
So... they shouldn't do it at all then right? Or is money the solution?
So... they shouldn't do it at all then right? Or is money the solution?
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2006
- Messages
- 6,860
- Location
- Ann Arbor, Michigan
I found this interesting.. as quoted from PRO TO NHRA: WE'RE NOT RACING 4-WIDE FOR POINTS ANYMORE
"Our sources have confirmed that PRO cited its objections on the basis of safety, confusion over the format, sponsorship identification and a circus-like atmosphere."
- SAFETY? I'd like to hear more on this one....
- CONFUSION OVER THE FORMAT? Seems they figured it out in time for the finals ok...perhaps they could give it another shot?
- Sponsorship identification... well OK, I can understand this .... TO A POINT.
- A CIRCUS-LIKE ATMOSPHERE??? What, PRO owners don't like clowns???
But the best part is this one right here...
"PRO reportedly informed the NHRA that it is willing to discuss a future event under an all-star or exhibition basis, but has said their membership will not participate in the same kind of event as staged in 2010."
- If it's Not SAFE.. WHY DO IT AT ALL?
- IF THERE IS CONFUSION OVER THE FORMAT.... WOULDN'T THIS CREATE A SAFETY ISSUE... SO WHY DO IT AT ALL?..
- IF SPONSORSHIP IDENTIFICATION IS THE ISSUE... DO YOU THINK YOUR SPONSORS (I hate that word) ARE GOING TO WANT YOU TO COMPETE IN THE "EXHIBITION"...which causes CONFUSION about the format...and thus is NOT SAFE.... SO... WHY DO IT AT ALL?
- IF A CIRCUS ATMOSPHERE IS THE PROBLEM and this creates problems with SPONSOR IDENTIFICATION and thus causes the sponsors to JUST SAY NO on this because it causes CONFUSION OVER THE FORMAT...which DIRECTLY LEADS TO A SAFETY CONCERN.... THEN ONCE AGAIIN...
WHY DO IT AT ALL????
I like the thoughts here Tim but what they hell just to play devil's advocate
Safety-As we saw with Robert, he stayed in much longer then he normally would have. He knew he could still advance by finishing second, this caused what could have been a horrible crash. Its all about chasing points. As an exhibition, then its easier to get out of it when needed. Sure if big money is on the line they may still drive it through but its a little less likely.
Confussion-No points then its a much more relaxed atmosphere. Sure it still stinks to pull a 1 second RT but it has much less of an effect on their livelihood.
Sponsor concerns- Don't really have one here. Although if this were for some big money the possibilty of winning it and getting more exposure may make up for the lack of it gained during the actual race
Circus- Again as an exhibition the entire mentality is different.
______________________________________________________________
I'm stunned that the numbers were this much against it. I am glad but knowing how many behind the scenes were against the countdown and yet we still have that I sadly can't put much faith in this.
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2006
- Messages
- 2,457
- Age
- 51
- Location
- Hurricane, Utah
Good Devil post Pee-JAY....
Bobby Bennett
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 1,805
- Age
- 57
- Location
- Spartanburg, SC
The vote was open to both members and non-members.
Ma Green
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2006
- Messages
- 391
- Age
- 81
- Location
- Medford, Oregon
NHRA didn't bother to contact PRO prior to announcing the 4-wide format and most of the teams were against it then. It's too bad Bruton spent all that extra money (and says he's going to ruin Las Vegas also) without asking the driver/owners/teams if they would race 4-wide.
Of course the drivers aren't going to bad-mouth the concept on TV...they'd catch hell from NHRA. You notice how "politically correct" Wilkerson was on Track Side when he called it "a novelty".
As a big bucks special event it would be fine. As some other have said, without points to worry about, they might not push it as far making it safer and less costly.
I'm sure it was spectactular in person, in the stands, but it was boring in TV, hard to follow and hard to figure out who was running in what lane.
Cudos to PRO for finally standing up to NHRA for once. BTW, the PRO teams include T/F, F/C, Pro Stock & Pro Stock bike. Perhaps not all the teams run at every event, but can be PRO members.
Of course the drivers aren't going to bad-mouth the concept on TV...they'd catch hell from NHRA. You notice how "politically correct" Wilkerson was on Track Side when he called it "a novelty".
As a big bucks special event it would be fine. As some other have said, without points to worry about, they might not push it as far making it safer and less costly.
I'm sure it was spectactular in person, in the stands, but it was boring in TV, hard to follow and hard to figure out who was running in what lane.
Cudos to PRO for finally standing up to NHRA for once. BTW, the PRO teams include T/F, F/C, Pro Stock & Pro Stock bike. Perhaps not all the teams run at every event, but can be PRO members.
Mooseman
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2006
- Messages
- 1,423
- Age
- 36
- Location
- Wanganui , New Zealand
Will be interesting to see how this turns out. If anything good on the racers for standing up for their right to be treated as racers, competitors and sportsman rather then products.
JCHansen
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2006
- Messages
- 17
- Age
- 81
- Location
- Thousand Oaks, Ca
NHRA would have to bless a 4 lane, money only event, because of their " Limited Testing" rule. Good Luck !
clutchflite
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 22
- Age
- 76
- Location
- Charlotte,NC
It was not spectacular in person, just louder, I can't watch 4 cars in 4 seconds, I needed some TV replays just to see what happened.
Treeshaker
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2006
- Messages
- 478
- Age
- 77
- Location
- South Carolina
This vote was taken Friday evening when a lot of drivers were still in a state of confusion and many owners were upset about the way their drivers were performing and the drivers were using the format as their excuse. Many others just voted the way the leaders were voting because they didn't want to make waves. I am not a member of PRO, nor a team owner at this event, therefore I didn't vote.
I think if they took a vote later in the weekend it would have been different, but the leader of PRO was the most upset about the format Friday evening because his team was doing really bad to say the least. And it was the easiest thing to blame it on the format rather than the driver and team itself. He went as far as having NHRA move cars out of his "quad" twice during qualifying on Saturday because they weren't up to his "standards". If that team had performed well during the weekend, you would not have heard a word from PRO.
I doubt if anyone can name one thing that was more unsafe at this event than at any other on the schedule. If anywhere is unsafe, it was Phoenix. Are they going back there? You betcha.
Low et of the rounds and winners came from all lanes. For the most part, these were the most even lanes I have competed on.
How did it affect points? Same points for round wins and same criteria to advance in each round. Leave sooner than the other drivers and run quick.
I guess it was the format when you get beat on holeshots by two cars in one round. And it is the format when your car keeps striking the tires and is running inconsistent. And it is the format if your car is hurting parts. And if your team is against the format going in, it is the format that made you lose first round, not an error in the set up of the car that made it strike the tires or the lack of being able to out pedal another driver. And it is the format when you are taking your time staging to make your opponents wait and you get timed out. And it is the format when you have a bad reaction time because of car set up or lack of driver concentration.
The weather predictions were bad for all weekend. Friday had rain delays and still there were more people than other tracks see on good days. Saturday was not supposed to get above 51 degrees, but the stands were almost full on both sides and the fences were lined and the temperature got into the low 60s. Sunday called for rain and hail, we were lucky to get two rounds in before it came. And do any of you notice how tall and long the stands are at this track? Compare the number of seats available to other tracks on the schedule. The tower and luxury boxes hold more people than some track's entire grand stands.
Drivers were instructed to stop on the track in certain lanes to keep from having a mishap when 4 cars try to make the turn at one time. This caused some of the delays.
I think if they took a vote later in the weekend it would have been different, but the leader of PRO was the most upset about the format Friday evening because his team was doing really bad to say the least. And it was the easiest thing to blame it on the format rather than the driver and team itself. He went as far as having NHRA move cars out of his "quad" twice during qualifying on Saturday because they weren't up to his "standards". If that team had performed well during the weekend, you would not have heard a word from PRO.
I doubt if anyone can name one thing that was more unsafe at this event than at any other on the schedule. If anywhere is unsafe, it was Phoenix. Are they going back there? You betcha.
Low et of the rounds and winners came from all lanes. For the most part, these were the most even lanes I have competed on.
How did it affect points? Same points for round wins and same criteria to advance in each round. Leave sooner than the other drivers and run quick.
I guess it was the format when you get beat on holeshots by two cars in one round. And it is the format when your car keeps striking the tires and is running inconsistent. And it is the format if your car is hurting parts. And if your team is against the format going in, it is the format that made you lose first round, not an error in the set up of the car that made it strike the tires or the lack of being able to out pedal another driver. And it is the format when you are taking your time staging to make your opponents wait and you get timed out. And it is the format when you have a bad reaction time because of car set up or lack of driver concentration.
The weather predictions were bad for all weekend. Friday had rain delays and still there were more people than other tracks see on good days. Saturday was not supposed to get above 51 degrees, but the stands were almost full on both sides and the fences were lined and the temperature got into the low 60s. Sunday called for rain and hail, we were lucky to get two rounds in before it came. And do any of you notice how tall and long the stands are at this track? Compare the number of seats available to other tracks on the schedule. The tower and luxury boxes hold more people than some track's entire grand stands.
Drivers were instructed to stop on the track in certain lanes to keep from having a mishap when 4 cars try to make the turn at one time. This caused some of the delays.
Thanks for the post Virgil. My 2 cents on the attendance, just from watching on TV, it was pretty packed on both sides Saturday, along with a ton of people on the ground, and Sunday it was obvious the weather just kept the majority of people away.
Toejam
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2006
- Messages
- 9,757
- Age
- 64
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
There are 63 Professional teams, who are active members of PRO?
It would have to include a Ton of Pro stock racers!
Rajunz
Nitro Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 3,386
- Age
- 63
- Location
- Austin, Texas, USA
Thanks for the post Virgil, great insight.
And for what it's worth, I agree with what Tim is saying, the reasons that PRO sighted for not wanting to race 4 Wide for points do not add up.
I guess it was only confusing to the ones that weren't college educated...........(as Tony Shoe put it anyways).........
The 4 Wide racing did not effect the points, most all of the recent hottest teams still made it to the final four.....Cory, Antron, Kalitta, Force, Hagan, Ashley, Capps, Edwards, Line, Smith, Arana, etc. The great teams still prevailed.
And for what it's worth, I agree with what Tim is saying, the reasons that PRO sighted for not wanting to race 4 Wide for points do not add up.
I guess it was only confusing to the ones that weren't college educated...........(as Tony Shoe put it anyways).........
The 4 Wide racing did not effect the points, most all of the recent hottest teams still made it to the final four.....Cory, Antron, Kalitta, Force, Hagan, Ashley, Capps, Edwards, Line, Smith, Arana, etc. The great teams still prevailed.
Last edited:
Similar threads
