Force's Fine

[Jeff]

JOHN FORCE DISCUSSES HIS FINE FROM NHRA

I thought this was well handled. Glad the screw up didn't result in an accident. The upside is that nobody appears to have been given favored treatment (I'm sure some will disagree) and we all get a chance to think of everything we do with our cars when we are just trying to move our program forward.

 

[Jamie]

I always thought the rule was that the car must be jacked up to be running UNLESS the driver is in the car, in which case it can be on the ground. Is that rule only for sportsman cars and the fuel cars must be on jacks at all times?

Seems to me the fine is a bit unnecessary but I can see how there could be problems if she whacked the throttle by accident and the car took off...but when is the last time that happened?

 

[Gary H]

They probaly mean licensed driver, does she have one for FC yet?

 

[clwill]

Funny Car Regs:

WARM-UPS
When starting a vehicle in the pit area, vehicle must be fully within the assigned space. No part of the rear tire may extend past the end of trailer. When occupying an “end spot” pit space or if the neighboring trailer does not completely shield your vehicle, it is mandatory to park a tow truck/car alongside the vehicle while engine is running. Vehicle must have a pedal stop that limits the throttle opening to a maximum of 3/4 of wide-open-throttle. Pneumatic throttle devices prohibited. Jackstand devices must provide a minimum ground clearance of 7 inches. See General Regulations 9:5, 9:14.

General Regs:

9:5 JACKS & JACKSTANDS
No work may be done under any car in the pit area while the car is supported by only one jack. Additional safety devices such as jackstands are mandatory to provide additional protection in the event of jack failure. Failure to observe this rule is grounds for immediate disqualification. Top Fuel, Funny Car, Pro Stock, Top Alcohol Dragster, and Top Alcohol Funny Car must use cradles/jackstand devices that attach to the frame (conventional jackstands prohibited) when working on and/or running engine in pits with vehicle in a raised position. Jackstand devices must be constructed as to provide a minimum ground clearance of 7 inches as measured from the ground to the outer diameter limit of the rear tires.

9:14 WARM-UPS
It is mandatory that a driver be seated in the car in the normal driving position anytime the engine is running, unless coupler or driveline is removed from vehicle. The practice of transbrake testing, converter stalls, line-loc testing, and/or transmission warming is prohibited in all classes, in all areas of the event except in starting-line approach areas beyond staging, or unless vehicle is on jackstands. Non-compliance is grounds for disqualification or such other and/or action as deemed appropriate by NHRA.

TOP FUEL & FUNNY CAR: When starting these categories of vehicles in the pit area, the car must be fully within the assigned space. Race teams may not back car out of the pit space to start the engine. NO PART OF THE REAR TIRE MAY EXTEND PAST THE END OF THE ASSIGNED PIT SPACE. When occupying the “end spot” pit space or if the neighboring trailer does not completely shield your car, it is mandatory to park a tow truck/car alongside the race car while the engine is running.

 

[Butch]

They probaly mean licensed driver, does she have one for FC yet?

Billy Meyer was a licensed driver and look what happened. I think his incident is what brought the jack stand rule in to effect.

 

[.]

Billy Meyer was a licensed driver and look what happened. I think his incident is what brought the jack stand rule in to effect.

Can you refresh my memory, I don't remember this (too young?).

 

[Heavyhauler]

Pomona tech day 77-78 Waco Billy was warming up in the pit area, whacked the throttle, cowboy boot stuck between the pedal and frame, and the car took off taking out an occupied porta john that happened to have one of the Collins brothers or Butch Mass inside, nobody hurt other than some support vehicles and pride but sure made for great stories for years after.......

 

[clwill]

Pomona tech day 77-78 Waco Billy was warming up in the pit area, whacked the throttle, cowboy boot stuck between the pedal and frame, and the car took off taking out an occupied porta john that happened to have one of the Collins brothers or Butch Mass inside,

That would cure your constipation...

 

[Nick Name]

JOHN FORCE DISCUSSES HIS FINE FROM NHRA

I thought this was well handled. Glad the screw up didn't result in an accident. The upside is that nobody appears to have been given favored treatment (I'm sure some will disagree) and we all get a chance to think of everything we do with our cars when we are just trying to move our program forward.

$5000 for an infraction that could have killed someone. Shoe $100,000 for an infraction that couldn't hurt anyone. Glad there is no favoritism.

 

[.]

Mike, thanks for the info.

$5000 for an infraction that could have killed someone. Shoe $100,000 for an infraction that couldn't hurt anyone. Glad there is no favoritism.

So true.

 

[sammi]

How much would it cost to buy in focus TV time that will be used to explain this thing? I am guessing it will take 4-5 minutes of ranting and raving and plugging. I think he is coming out ahead on this deal.

 

[clwill]

He did it on the qualifying show today, he was quite contrite, and it was over in a couple of minutes.

As to the equity of the fine, he was at an empty track letting his daughter start the car, with a trained crew around. A very small chance of anything going wrong. He was in the open, and the minute he was approached by the NHRA, he admitted wrongdoing, and promptly wrote the check. But the Shoe issue was one of potential competition inequity, the fuel was not in the open but had to be discovered, and the folks involved immediately complained/objected/protested.

I'm no knee-jerk Force supporter, and clearly $100k was overkill, but let's not compare apples and oranges.

 

[JHOLE]

Billy Meyer was a licensed driver and look what happened. I think his incident is what brought the jack stand rule in to effect.

This story made me think of your story of Tim Arnold warming up at Martin.--When the "rule police" swept in and layed into him for warming up on the ground....without a driveshaft...

Didn't he let them know that if they found a way to propel the car without the driveshaft - he was gonna be the next champion....?....


This whole deal is stupid. - if he would have rented a track, they would have *****ed about testing - if he would have done it in a/his parking lot, they would have *****ed about inappropriate venue - so he does it at a real track, with noone around, and they hit him with a rule...


I'd pay the stupid fine, tell them it won't happen again, - and enroll her in NASCAR classes...

 

[Jenn]

This whole deal is stupid. - if he would have rented a track, they would have *****ed about testing - if he would have done it in a/his parking lot, they would have *****ed about inappropriate venue - so he does it at a real track, with noone around, and they hit him with a rule...

I can see where NHRA is coming from since it happened at an NHRA sanctioned event. It seems to me that they'd have to maintain standards from their insurance companies about how the cars will be operated at all times. Both NHRA and the facility (Although I think this track is owned by the NHRA) have certain insurance requirements that they have to abide by.

It's a sue happy world out there and all you need is one looky lou who steps out in front or behind the car...something to go wrong.

Dunno, I think 5K was probably appropriate.

 

[big guy]

I can see where NHRA is coming from since it happened at an NHRA sanctioned event. It seems to me that they'd have to maintain standards from their insurance companies about how the cars will be operated at all times. Both NHRA and the facility (Although I think this track is owned by the NHRA) have certain insurance requirements that they have to abide by.

It's a sue happy world out there and all you need is one looky lou who steps out in front or behind the car...something to go wrong.

Dunno, I think 5K was probably appropriate.

It did not happen at a NHRA sactioned event.just a sanctioned track.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Not undermining the potential severity of the deal, but the bottom line is that nobody was around, so the risk was limited. Plus, no better way to get the feel for how a vehicle operates than to get in there and make it happen. In hindsight they should've took her on the track and had her move the car forward and backward, but you can't learn on jackstands. When it was all over with, Big John played the PC card very nicely. But at the end of the day, short of putting the car on the track, they removed as much risk as possible as far as I'm concerned and I would hardly call the situation reckless or negligent.

If the NHRA wants to send a message, and get rich in the process, they should have a look at some of these dumba$$ sportsman racers and all of the high speed driving and converter stalling bullsh!t that goes on in highly congested areas.

Sean D

 

[RAPID]

I posted this on another board. $5000.00 really,,come on. Why does any conversation with them seem to come with a fine??

Personally, with the place mostly empty after doing a few warm ups I don't really see what the harm was. They started the car off by themselves, let her idle if forward and backward to get used to it. She has a competion license, it wasn't her first time in a nitro powered car with a glide clutch.

Too me, doing it off in the corner with nobody in the way is much safer than learning it on the starting line with tons of people around. No pressure and she can see what it feels like with the body down and the engine lit. No urge to roll through the water and snap the throttle just a bit. Nothing to run over. JMO

If it had been a race weekend that is a completely different deal. I am sure they could have done this back at the shop, but I can easily see where it seemed like a OK idea at the time.

Before everybody became so money hungry, they would have come to John and said, "Damn it John. We don't want you doing that again." Now they say you shouldn't have done that, pay me $5000.00. WTH???

Rapid

PS, Sean good call on all the converter checks!!

 

[clwill]

I posted this on another board. $5000.00 really,,come on.

$5k is as close to "couch change" as you can get with JFR. NHRA needed to send a message about following the rules (or people here would be complaining about preferential treatment...). But it was an admittedly tiny infraction. So they gave him a tiny fine. While $5k may be a lot to the average joe, in an operation like JFR with an annual budget in the $20m neighborhood, it is 0.025%. In comparison to a typical sportsman, for example, it's about a $5 fine.

 

[Chi-Town Brown]

He did it on the qualifying show today, he was quite contrite, and it was over in a couple of minutes.

As to the equity of the fine, he was at an empty track letting his daughter start the car, with a trained crew around. A very small chance of anything going wrong. He was in the open, and the minute he was approached by the NHRA, he admitted wrongdoing, and promptly wrote the check. But the Shoe issue was one of potential competition inequity, the fuel was not in the open but had to be discovered, and the folks involved immediately complained/objected/protested.

I'm no knee-jerk Force supporter, and clearly $100k was overkill, but let's not compare apples and oranges.

Now there is a half truth and only Part of story

Do you know the ENTIRE REAL story?
The drum was in the TOP of the trailer NOT being used. NHRA didn't discover anything. That drum was at THAT TRACK for weeks before that event from an earlier test session (legal to use) and NHRA knew that. The drum was put in Shoes trailer when they arrived to be transported back to Brownsburg. NHRA used that as a technicality (No outside Nitro allowed on the grounds during National event) to pick someones pocket. I would have complained/objected/protested also.

Your rite Apples and Oranges....

 

[clwill]

Do you know the ENTIRE REAL story? <snip>

Whatever. It was a potential competition inequity issue (apple), different than a safety issue (orange). And I agree the fine was probably 10x too high. Whatever.

Your rite Apples and Oranges....

My ceremony? Perhaps you meant "you're right". And yes, I am.